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Tannenbaum needs to go - and if he doesn't so does Ross

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    Posted this in the James to Denver thread but it's worth its own thread - and I need to rant. :)

    "Urgh. This is so frustrating. The Dolphins drafts haven't been great but they have yielded some decent players and this FO seems incapable of retaining our own developed talent.

    James has been productive. Retaining him on an OL that still needs improvement should be a no-brainer.

    Worse still should be traded for someone like Anderson. Trading young, developing and talented for talented but older and possibly decling player. It's worse than just losing someone."

    But it's not just James. How many good, young picks have we failed to retain?

    Miller, Clay, Landry, maybe James?

    Who's next, Drake, Godchaux, any other pick that seems to be working out?

    Oh it's not intentional, sure. It's just the unfortunate result of a bad combination of contracts and timing, right? ... And who's responsible for those contracts or the lack of them?

    When we need to lock up talent early we don't. When we get to it we can't, we're out priced and don't have the space. When we have or need decent talent we over pay. Then when it doesn't pan out we have to ditch them and not get value. And then of course, when we can obtain a great player we pay the big bucks. Whoop di doo. Throwing money at stars hardly takes talent. I think I could honestly do the GM job that way.

    Locking up Reshad Jones looked like a step in the right direction but it's the only positive contract move I can think of and I'm now done with the Tannenbaum era. I didn't like it when he came but I thought I should wait and see. Well I'm done. He has proven that with the authority he has he can't get the job done well. Not in Miami and, quite frankly, not in New York too. in this cap limited league the GM role is massively significant. The evidence is clear, he's not a wise GM. He needs to go.

    Here's the thing though, who replaces him? That's up to Ross, and that raises three questions. Biff Tannen is Ross' man. The New Yorker. Question 1, can Ross see that Biff isn't the man for the job? Question 2, if he can, can he own up to his mistake and ditch him? Question 3, if he can, can he find an adequate replacement, or else realise he needs help in that area and find someone who can get a good GM?

    If the answer is no to any of those then the odds are the Dolphins will not find long term success, and probably not short term success either. That is, unless Ross moves on.

    I really want to believe Ross can figure this out. That he's experienced enough to spot a bad development when he sees one and to just cut one's losses and move on. However, maybe the biggest question is, can he find a football person to help run this team? Could Gase do it, or at least, should he choose his own GM? Might Grier be decent of given the full GM role?

    I don't know.

    All I know is, the Dolphins can't continue to mis-manage talent like this.

    I'm done with Tannenbaum.
     
  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I do agree with firing Tannenbaum. Not a fan.
     
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  3. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wouldn't care in the slightest if Tannenbaum was fired tomorrow.

    If we're stuck with Landry at 16m this year that's a fireable offense in and of itself. Especially if the justification to tagging him was because you thought there was value there to trade him. Whoever's decision it was, IF the truth of the matter was tag him, because someone will give up something great for him, and now you're stuck with him and that cap hit, you clearly screwed up.

    Of course, if they made that decision, prepared he'd maybe stay at that cap hit and have a back up plan to shed salary that makes sense, then ok, fine. However, I just don't see that being the case at this point.

    seems more to me like they had every intent on a tag and trade being a high probability option with a big return, but theyve again overvalued the player, misunderstood the market and now are going to have yet another massive cap hit to take on which of course will lead to cuts, and more holes on the roster.

    Maybe a deal is still to come, then all is forgiven, but I just dont see how Landry at a 16m hit benefits this team, and this roster. I'm not talking about player, he's talented, no doubt, I'm simply talking about the cap
     
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  4. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    TheyllTbe able to trade Landry for something. It may not be much but a cap rich team with no way of spending it will make the trade even for one season.

    It will probably only be a 5th or lower though.
     
  5. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    The question is what is James worth?
    What do you pay a player who has missed 17 games in the past 3 seasons?
     
  6. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's exactly my point.. If that's what youre going to get in return because you misunderstood the market... that's on whoever made that decicsion. Ultimately, you could have either just signed him to a long term deal, or let him walk and took the likely 3rd round comp. pick, depending on our signings....
     
  7. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd worry about Pouncey before James.
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can look at this two ways- the first of course is that Miami signs great talent, develops them and then let's them walk once their rookie contracts expire. And from that viewpoint, there's a glaring problem that's keeping us from greatness.

    If you look at the other side of the coin though, we've kept almost every rookie signed under Tannenbaum and they have been getting actual playing time. His hit/miss record is above the league average in Miami and his players are developing nicely. Sure, you can point to Asiata and Carroo as exceptions here but they will be playing in 2018. Or you an look at the Ajayi saga and see letting great talent walk, but Ajayi turned out to be a net gain for us AND his backup was the better player.

    My point is that under Philbin/Ireland, half our draft picks were wearing street clothes and working at Hardees a year after we signed them. I don't see the problem in identifying talent, getting the most out of them and then not being able to afford to keep them 4 years later. That's a good problem to have and we will get AT LEAST the same compensation for Landry as we paid in the draft to start with.

    But why are we losing folks like Landry to begin with? Shouldn't he be paid? Well, look no further than names like Suh, Branch, Alonzo, and Timmons. We had 9 contracts last season that was above $9M a year- and now Landry & Quinn being that to 11 (but we lost Cutler so it's back to 10). That's over half our cap on 10 players- the problem is not the young guys like Landry trying to get their first big payday. It's these darn 1-3 year rentals we keep hauling in that underachieve.

    Personally, I'm not for/against Tannenbaum....I think his job was partially doomed off the Suh and Tannehill contracts alone (23% of our total cap space). And I don't see how you make the numbers work with Suh on the team.
     
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  9. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    If they trade him for a 5th fire all these ****ers ASAp.The phins would get a 3rd comp pick next year if they lose him in free agency.
     
  10. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Sometimes I feel like I am on a boat without a rudder. We seem to be wandering all over the place except towards where we all want to go. Our Tannenbaum led organization can be very frustrating at times and it seems like we don't have a plan. However after thinking about it, I do believe there is one and it is called WIN NOW. While I prefer an organization who keeps one eye looking towards the future, our organization seems to have both eyes looking at our next game day. Agree with strategy or not, I think most of us expect Tannenbaum to be very bold. If he can pull a major deal off, I look for him to do so without regard for the future (draft picks, our best player, etc.). Win now has it's cost. He better be right, or there could be a huge penalty that we pay which could set our team back for a good while. We are used to mediocrity aren't we, so why not take a chance? It's not like WE have a choice anyway. He's going to do what he is going to do. Maybe we will get someone exciting to watch.

    P. S. Sorry about my post. I hope you get the general idea. I am having a hard time articulating what I mean this morning.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  11. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I agree the mentality of the front office is win now every offseason under Ross when we’re clearly not 1-2 players away. We also believe we can find older players who were injured to carry the team which doesn’t happen often.

    The problem is we tend to overpay to fill a need instead of drafting good players and keeping them.
     
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  12. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    I'm hoping a Cleveland trade : Dolphins 11th and Landry for their 4th. I'd do that in a New York minute! I mean, the Browns have $100m in cap space. Two 1sts, Two 2nds and the first pick in the 3rd round.
     
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  13. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Hey T- bomb fits in perfectly with this crew.....

    Oh I know some of you don't think Gase has much responsibility in the trainweck we are seeing right in front of us..... its all T-bomb ......lol....wake up people or not ....Gase should go back to QB coach which he might be good at but HC lmao into tears....
     
  14. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I think it’s too early to judge Gase as a HC. Churning our HC would be mistake!
     
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  15. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    I was livid when Ross hired Tannenbaum, but I have to admit he's doing much better for the Fins than he did for the Jets. He's not great, but he's not really that bad. His reputation simply proceeds him.
     
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  16. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    It’s a bit to early to call it, but this year unless we have some dramatic reason again not evaluate him I’d think his seat is getting warm. If within 4 years we’re still looking for answers I might be inclined to say time to look elsewhere. However his responsibitly is to coach the players he’s given. If he gets shiet you can’t always make shineola!
     
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  17. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    I can understand your feeling here and respect them.

    Though I don't agree and seen IMO just to much of a lack of insight and feel the team actually sinking deeper as time goes on but also realize its still an opinion. And usually they take time to find out where the truth actually is.....

    Also saw in a earlier post of yours on TE views of Gase on Receiving or blocking. From what I've seen and a little insight from what Boomer said of Gase. Gase isn't a big OL guy and mainly concerned that the linemen can hold the D for 2 seconds for that quick Marino type release I guess not the RT has that in his bag of tricks.. I also have the impression after these 2 years of observation, that blocking isn't real high on Gases list sadly..... So when it come to TE using that formula would think offensive ability and receiving as being much higher on Gases TE list than blocking...... and thats just my opinion from what I've heard and seen.
     
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  18. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    It's pretty awful when you fire Jeff Ireland and still can't get any better at GM after multiple attempts. The travesty of this ****uation is I really think Adam Gase is a good coach, but he might become a casualty of terrible roster management.
     
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  19. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Thanks for your thoughts on the TE. I guess I am old school where the TE is expected to do both. Maybe the guys back then weren't as fast as these guys, so there probably was a trade off for those that weren't total athletic freaks. As for Gase, at one time I was a little bearish too. However, after listening to Boomer on Locked on Dolphins (Love that show by the way, Travis), I have changed my tune. Boomer makes a great point on how little Gase has actually had with Tannehill as our starter. I am not defending our slow starts, etc., but I think it is fair not to count last year in Gase's evaluation. There was just too much crap going on. Cutler wet the bed and we all suffered for it. I look for our players to really rally around Tannehill, if he can play. Sometimes we don't know what we had until it is gone.
     
  20. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Hey Ross,
    Look at the bills if u want to see how you are supposed to build a team.
    Hint, hire a ****ing GM that's has a ****ing clue!The bills have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds.
     
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  21. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

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    It's a real shame that it's TBaum and not you sat in the front office.
     
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  22. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The Browns have more. Are we lamenting we are not the Browns too? New England has what, 3? Should we try less to be like them?
     
  23. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Keep drinking the kool-aid and enjoy 6-10 to 8-8 because that's not.goimg.to change with these idiots in charge.
     
  24. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Lol we were in the playoffs bro, but yeah let' start the churn again because .... reasons.
     
  25. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Oh my ****ing god!We made the wildcard round be ****ing deal!That's problem with fans on this site.They jerkoff for 1 playoff appearance in 8 years.I guess u should be good until 2023 for.another one.
     
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  26. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Making the playoffs IS a big deal lol. And we then promptly lost our QB for it and the next season, yet here you are agitating about some kind of complete failure needing a total Brownsian rebuild. You seem to want not success, which everyone does, but immediate and complete success. Good ****ing luck buddy.
     
  27. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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  28. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Yes, it's sad that I don't want to fire a coach before year three with one playoff appearance already. There are so many guaranteed successful coaches out there! Churn baby churn!
     
  29. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    mimimi
     
  30. Base of Gase

    Base of Gase Active Member

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    Seems like a rhetorical question to me at this point, and the handling of the Landry situation was the proverbial cherry on top of the sundae.

    Yes, Tannenbaum needs a swift kick in the grill and promptly shown the door.

    • Mario Williams?
    • Branch and Kiko extensions?
    • Ndamukong Suh’s monstrous contract?
    • Timmons past his prime?
    • Rey Maualuga
    • Moving up and trading precious draft capital for Leonte Carroo?
    • Ted Larson?
    • Extending T.J. McDonald coming off suspension before he’s played a down for us in a regular season game?
    • Compensation for losing Landry?

    I mean, this list goes on and on. It’s an ugly list, and it all leads to us being in salary cap hell - while also losing homegrown talent in the process.

    Tannenbaum is a snake oil salesman wearing a carnival outfit and brandishing a certificate in sports law. He’s been a cancerous abomination at every NFL stop where he’s decided to peddle his wares, and the double-talk in braggadocio as the ‘answer.’

    I’ve never liked the man. I’ve never liked his approach to building a foundation. And last but not least, I’ve never liked his quick fix mentality (and washed up, overpriced veterans) in unsuccessfully trying to gloss over glaring holes on a roster.
     
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  31. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I was not talking about the coach.I want tannebaum and Grier out!Gase deserves another shot but with this ****ty roster he probally doesn't have a chance.Ross is an idiot for hiring tannebaum.He is doing the same thing he did in newyork.
     
  32. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    Which good players that we've drafted have we retained since he's been here? Jones and Tannehill are the only ones so far.
     
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You do know that Tannenbaum wasn't here for almost half the things on that list, right?
     
  34. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I think everyone here was worried about this type of scenario with Tannenbaum when Ross brought him in. Salary cap problems with a mediocre roster. The Tannenbaum signature.
     
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  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    At least we still have most of our draft picks. So Tannenbaum improved somewhat.
     
  36. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    LOL. Yeah, there's that.
     
  37. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Gase lobbies for cutler and Thomas both who sucked so I do take that into consideration. Things happen to every team. Philadelphia lost what was propabaly the MVP in Carson Wentz and they keep up by adopting to their backups. Not saying we’re as good but better than a 6-10

    I just think Miami is not a dedicated football city everyone wants to party and enjoy the good life and not put in the time or effort.
     
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  38. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Let me offer some insight I found in a Rifle book (The Accurate Lee Enfield) about how an organization works and what it looks like, based perspective. I see a lot of similarities on this forum to the following description of "life at work":

    Life at work is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different levels.
    Some monkeys are climbing up, some down.
    The monkeys on top look down and see a tree full of smiling monkeys.
    The monkeys on the bottom look up and see nothing but a**holes.

    Do you see any similarities with how posters on this forum see the each other and the Dolphins FO?

    The draft is approaching and soon; then we'll have some real information to sink our teeth into (figuratively speaking).
     
  39. Base of Gase

    Base of Gase Active Member

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    Yes he was.

    What on earth are you talking about?
     
  40. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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