That depends on how you view Swope. I think Swope can play on the outside similar to BHart. Austin in the slot and get your X in FA. If position diversity and route flexibility are key in this O, I would think Swope can line up in a number of places, not just the slot.
IMO Swope is more than just a slot WR. He has better outside ability than Austin. He's not tiny. He measured 6'0 205 at the combine IIRC. That's not huge but it's certainly in the normal range for an outside WR. He reminds me of Jordy Nelson in play style as KB has pointed out. He's a little smaller and a little faster (on the field, not the track where he's a lot faster) but the style is similar. I wouldn't be comfortable getting Swope and Hartline and calling the WR upgrade good or anything, but I do think he'd be a smart get as part of the upgrade.
I understand Austin is small, but with his quickness AND speed, why cant he play every position. I would probably step back from that a couple of years ago, but with the way they are calling defensive hits on WR these days, I dont see it as the same problem. IF lined up on the outside, with his quickness, he should be able to get off the line most anytime, even off the press. I am also of the opinion that his size CAN BE a good thing. Although I dont have stats, it just my perception that these smaller guys have less problems with knees going out on them, even though they are able to make the super quick cuts the bigger guys cant, without blowing a knee. I do understand the caution, but this guy is the exception. Pick Swope in the second, if he is the other answer, and line em up.
I actually think he'll make it to the third despite all the reports that his 40 time moved him into the second. I think the WR class is too deep in that round already. If I really want him I might consider using my later second on him, but nothing earlier than that.
My concern is that he isn't beating college CBs on those highlight reels. He's beating LBs. He's reportedly worked on his route running since the season ended, but he's a project outside at best. And that's a project that will always be at a size/strength deficit out there. He'll need to become a very good route runner to become a good outside WR. I would prefer to take his team mate Bailey who has shown he's already a very good outside Wr and is almost as dynamic in the slot.
The thing with Austin is, how many guys that are his size have played outside in the NFL? He'd have to be a virtual clone of the Carolina Steve Smith to make this work, and I'm not sure I see Steve Smith in him. Also, with Swope, I think he goes in the second. This class of WRs may be a lot like that 2008 class when 10 receivers went in the 2nd round while none went in the first. This year, we may have one guy go in the first round in Cordarrelle Patterson, but the 2nd round could very well have Keenan Allen, Tavon Austin, Ryan Swope, Quinton Patton, Justin Hunter, DeAndre Hopkins, Terrence Williams, Da'Rick Rogers, Robert Woods, and Stedman Bailey.
Just a reminder here, this is a link to Pat Kirwan ranking the WRs in the 2008 draft: http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d807bdfdb/article/drafts-top-wide-receivers So Jordy went into the draft with several receivers being ranked ahead of him, and he was the 3rd receiver chosen by a smart Green Bay scouting staff. NFL Draft Scout had Jordy 9th. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=WR&draftyear=2008&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC Walter Football had him 9th. http://walterfootball.com/draft2008WR.php
I was at this game this year and this about sums up Tavon as a football player. This was the first time they have put Tavon in as runningback since his freshman year of college and he did that. This just shows you how dangerous of a player Austin is at every spot on the field. He is a matchup nightmare because you can put him out wide, in the slot and in the backfield. Not only is he fast, but his quickness is off the charts. I cant remember the last time I have seen a college football player display the ability to make cuts like that. If we were to add Austin to our team, team speed goes up, our return game becomes dangerous and he is always a player the opposing dc will have to prepare for. I will say he is not worth the 12th pick in the draft, but if I were the GM, I would not be afraid of trading back up in round 1 to get this guy because no way he makes it out of the first round. Imagine Austin, Wallace and Miller in our offense....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd8Y-PLYi7M This is just another great game out of Austin against LSU. This guy is the best playmaker in the draft.
How many routes do you have to do away with to support having Wallace and Austin though? With one, you have a guy who is effective when he is running vertical routes, and with the other, you have a guy that simply lacks the size and the experience with route running to play outside. Having Wallace and Austin would be a very limited offense that would be somewhat predictable.
You dont think a guy like Davone Bess could really mentor Austin and help develop his game in terms of route running? The positive we would have if our offense hypothetically featured Wallace, Hartline, Bess and Austin is this: Austin would be our "4th" option so it would give this guy time to develop and our coaches time to find ways to better utilize him. Wallace could help open up the middle of the field by the way he can stretch downfield. Hartline and Bess can hold their own on the ousides and Bess also returns to the slot where he excels at. Austin can work some out of the backfield and he would also be an immediate impact in special teams. I think Austin can develop into a receiver who can run good routes and get off the line vs press coverage. Austin also has never had prior injuries which I find very crucial with a guy his size. I definitely think Philbin and the coaching staff can find ways to maximize Austins potential in the NFL, if not them New England will certainly do it and we will all be regretting that when hes a much better version of Wes Welker.
IMO, for a team to be able to maximize what Tavon Austin brings to the table, they have to have an established receiving corps in place. He needs to go into a situation where he is not asked to be a go to guy and not asked to play either the X or Z positions. He's a luxury pick and not a bread and butter pick.
If we bring in Wallace, I dont feel that Austin become a go to guy though. With Hartline, Wallace and Bess, that alone is a pretty solid group of receivers. Adding Austin to that mix would help free up those guys and also doesnt force him to be the go to receiver.
The problem you have there is that Hartline is still the only complete receiver of the bunch. Mike Wallace is a limited one trick pony that isn't going to run intermediate routes well. Davone Bess is a slot only guy. Tavon Austin is a slot only guy. Hartline is the only one of the bunch that can play all three positions and run the intermediate routes effectively.
What are you talking about?! That absolutely makes NO sense in regards to Austin. You should be asking yourself how many routes are opened up with Austin on the field. Austin and predictable couldn't be further from the opposite. Why do you insist on bringing up route running with Austin when he in fact is NOT a bad route runner and has run a pretty diverse route tree at WVU?
That's a bologna statement when, in today's game, slot receivers can catch as many passes as perimeter guys, and Philbin is no exception to this considering his slot receivers in GB caught more passes than outside guys. Touches are touches, period, and Philbin & Sherman will find ways to get the playmaker Austin as many as any perimeter guy. Why do you not understand this? For all your talk of Austin "being limited by playing in the slot", there are also things perimeter receivers simply can not do that Austin can BECAUSE of working the slot. Thinking Austin "limits" our offense is absurd. He opens it up.
That's such horse crud. Give me a LEGITIMATE reason why he's only a slot guy.... and don't tell me "size" b/c that's not a legitimate reason... and don't tell me "route running" either b/c that, too, isn't a legitimate reason.
Not saying we have to, but if it happens that Ireland pulls the trigger on him at 12, mark me down as someone who won't be upset!
Both are absolutely legitimate reasons. The routes that he runs are mostly backfield routes that are designed to get the ball to him in space quickly. There is no full route tree to work with here. His size makes it very difficult for him to get off the jam at the LOS. There is a reason guys his size don't play the X and Z positions in the NFL.
It would be reminiscent of the Ted Ginn Jr. pick. You take a niche player with this high a pick, a guy that doesn't have a complete receiver skill set.
I will admit you know more about all this than I do....BUT.............Just because it HASN'T been done, doesn't mean it can't be. You seem to be looking for the negative, while I see a player that, no matter WHERE you put him, is a nightmare for the defense to cover. If I was still a betting man, I would put money on even Revis not being able to cover this guy on the field BECAUSE of his quickness AND speed. You would have to double him, and if you do THAT, if he STILL isnt open, someone else should be. There is SO much difference in covering this type of guy and someone like Ginn who is a speed guy only. Just think of what Welker would do if he had this amount of speed.
No, it's not a legitimate reason to say he absolutely "won't" be an outside receiver. Plenty of players have proven this. Usually small receivers don't succeed on the outside b/c they don't have an elite skill set to make up for it. Austin obviously isn't lacking in elite skill set. Hell, even Mike Thomas (5-8 187) had 66 catches for 827 yards and 4 TDs as Jacksonville's starting split end in 2010 and he's nothing close to Austin. Difficult for corners to press a guy who can destroy them if they whiff b/c of how quick, explosive, and slippery he is. You make it seem like he's an easy guy for a corner to get his hands on, not to mention he's stronger than his size would indicate. I hope you're not putting him in the Ginn category.
When you are talking about using the 12th pick in the draft on a player, I'm looking for a complete player first and foremost. It's the same argument I use against giving $10+ million to Mike Wallace. He's not a complete receiver. He's a vertical threat only that is very much below average in every other aspect of playing wide receiver. With Tavon Austin, it is all a big guess. At the college level, he gets open against linebackers and safeties, not cornerbacks. He plays lined up in the backfield and in the slot. At his size, he has serious limitations to his overall ability to effect the game. It is a stretch to say that he will be versatile enough to play the X and the Z positions along with the H position that he currently plays, and I think it is also a stretch to say that he can run a full route tree at this point. He is what he is. He's a small, fast, and quick player similar to Andrew Hawkins in Cincinnati. Hawkins makes plays not because of his speed and quickness, but because AJ Green and Cincy's other outside receivers draw the cornerback coverage and leave him in favorable match ups. You don't spend the 12th pick in the draft on Andrew Hawkins though.
just sayin, as a full time outside guy Thomas had a productive year, and it's not like we're talking about Austin being a starting perimeter receiver but a slot receiver who can occasionally play outside to create different looks and matchup problems. For s*** sake we line up Reggie Bush at times on the perimeter to create those matchups but now suddenly we can't do it with a LEGITIMATE receiver who actually runs a DIVERSE route tree and is a QUALITY route runner? It's total bull****. I just find all these arguments against him completely silly when in fact he'll get as many or more touches working the slot than an outside guy will. Case in point, who had more touches at WVU, Austin or the stud perimeter guy Bailey? Austin, by 70.
And Thomas is 198 lbs., and he really isn't a very good player. The fact that you're comparing him as an outside WR to Reggie Bush really supports my argument here. And I don't think Austin is a quality route-runner. He loses speed in his cuts, doesn't win very often at the top of his route, and isn't very precise IMO. That isn't saying much. Not many consider Bailey a first-round player.
Show me a slot receiver who runs a more diverse route tree and has had the responsibility of learning a more diverse role in an offense than Austin.
And Bailey was the much more productive receiver. Bailey almost doubles Austin's productivity score as a receiver.
The receiver in my sig has run a more diverse route tree than Tavon Austin. In the NFL, whoever Green Bay puts in the slot runs a more diverse route tree.
I really don't see height/size as a reason why Austin can't play outside. There have been great short outside receivers, including Duper and Clayton. And with contact rules being enforced more strictly than they were then, size is even less of a factor. That said, I'd be in no rush to make him an outside receiver because I don't think outside receivers are inherently better or more important than slot guys. In today's NFL, a good slot receiver can easily catch 120+ passes in a season and those are high percentage plays that keep the chains moving. Austin is electric with the ball in his hands and playing him in the slot makes it easiest to get it in his hands. Like all draftees/rookies there's a degree of projection here, but if he can master the position like Wes Welker has but with several times as much explosiveness and speed, he could be devastating.
There are many who would disagree with this, including the ex cornerback Mayock. Mike Thomas is 5.077 195 and in 2010 put up over 8.0 avg per attempt with a 65% completion rate and 4 TDs on the perimeter..... and he's not nearly the receiver Austin is. Hartline's was 8.5, 58%, and 1 TD, so then I guess you're saying Hartline isn't a very good player either? You and KB are apparently saying Austin can't play on the perimeter b/c of his size, when in fact I'm sitting here showing you an inferior receiver shorter than 5'8 and no stronger than Austin did in fact play on the outside. DeSean Jackson does it and he's more thinly built. Don't see any problems with Steve Smith. Just admit it, it's impossible to declare Austin as a guy who can't play on the outside. All you can do is speculate, just as those who speculated Steve Smith wouldn't be able to play on the outside.
First, there is no rule to that effect. If he can be a guy who can catch 100+ passes I couldn't care less whether he is in on every down. I'll take 100 receptions from a guy who plays 60% of downs over another guy who catches 60 passes (of the same average distance) in 100% of downs. Guys like Wes Welker and Victor Cruz undoubtedly provide 1st round pick productivity even though they are largely slot guys. Second, even if he isn't particularly well suited to play outside (which I don't necessarily agree with), it's not like he can't be on the field or lined up outside. No disaster would happen if you put him there. It's not like putting a 125 lb guy at left tackle where you'd risk injuring your QB and blowing up the whole play. Third, with his running ability and the indications that we may see a lot more read option, Austin can be on the field in 2 WR sets with 2 other WRs.
he was drafted at 5'9 184. 4.41 40 and 1.51 10 yard. 7.44 cone & 4.25 shuttle. All poorer times than Austin.
