Cobb also runs a full route tree, and he did so at Kentucky. Cobb ran deep posts, deep outs, intermediate square ins, short stop routes, slants, flat routes, and screens at Kentucky. So far on Tavon Austin, I've seen him run mostly flat patterns and screens. I've seen one snag route and one intermediate out pattern, neither of which were very good.
at least he lets us expand whatever it is we do have. Gotta start somewhere, although I'm guessing we get the starting started in FA. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see Wallace & Austin together in Miami.
WADR, who cares? That's an overrated concept. BMarsh used to dictate coverage because he created fear here. That did virtually nothing for our offense or our record. Why? Because we had no system. We had a hodge podge of philosophies with random players and no cohesion. This year with two mediocre WRs we were 2 FGs from the playoffs even with a rookie QB. Why? Because we have a system and cohesion and players that are better suited to that philosophy. We need to improve the base, before we add the flash or it will be for naught. Tavon Austin is not a once in a lifetime player that we need to alter our strategy for.
Its not like Austin is our only option. There are literally mounds of WRs in FA and the draft that fit what we do better than Austin. Picking Austin decreases the chances of picking those other better suited players. If he was one of the very few WRs available, then sure, grab him.
[video=youtube;pvLmWVn0w_A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvLmWVn0w_A[/video] This is pretty good over the middle, making people miss too
Anytime you have the most electrifying player in college coming out, who runs consistent 4'2', is built very well, has shown durability, shows good hands, and without question the most elusive in the draft, you better rethink philosophies to a degree. So we think that Tavon is not a fit here is that what your saying?
There are plenty of VALID arguments for NOT taking Austin in the early first, so, just to keep this going...............For the guys that dont want him early, where would you be comfortable or content drafting him, if at all?
This is basically what I think also. He is a rare athlete. MAYBE, rare enough to change someones thinking......
Cmon. That's ridiculous. Austin can make a living off those pivot, option, and jerk routes alone just as Welker has. Who's gonna cover him with consistency on his speed outs? Tavon runs great shake routes in zone coverage. He runs posts, and deep posts, post-corners, intermediate & deep seam routes, a few go-route variations, wheel routes, crossers, slants, stop routes, screens, deep outs, and various routes from the backfield. I didn't witness Cobb run as many routes and variations as Austin, but that's probably b/c he spent more time as a WCQB than a WR and ran and threw the ball twice as much as he caught it, as well as caught half as many passes as Austin.
He is not the most electric player in college. Right now, no, I don't think he's a fit here. Talent and speed is not necessarily plug and play. We've should have learned that by now.
I think he's a luxury pick. I believe Bailey, Patton and Swope are picks for us. I think taking Austin stops us from getting any of those guys. I could be wrong about though.
WADR, I think you're missing the boat in a big way with Austin, Fin. Tavon is a solid receiver, period. I don't get this mentality that he's just another Dexter McCluster type whom you have to scheme ways to get the ball in his hands. Austin is an elite slot receiver with great hands who runs solid routes. He's such a playmaker that you want to scheme even more ways to get the ball in his hands above and beyond his normal impact as a WR, so there's a HUGE difference in that regard compared to a McCluster type. Austin might not be a "once in a lifetime player" but who the hell is at #12 this year? That's kind of a ******ed argument TBH. He's a goddam difference maker of a player, and those guys just don't grow on trees. If you don't believe Tavon Austin can't improve our base & cohesion, then you either need to watch him more or you're not thinking outside the box well enough b/c the guy can do everything Bess can do AND THEN SOME. Can Bess stretch the middle of the field like a DeSean Jackson? Can Bess take a screen or end around/sweep to the house? Can Bess line up at tailback when we run the read option and take the pitch to the house? Is Bess a nightmare on punt returns? Can Bess run a speed out from the slot and leave the linebacker in his dust and beat the safety to the play? Can Bess run deep posts, post-corners, and wheel routes for chunk yardage? Can Bess catch a quick slant or shake route and split the defense for a big TD? Can Bess pull coverage with him downfield to open up the underneath? Can Bess draw safety attention from the slot to get Mike Wallace in 1 on 1 matchups the way 4.3 Austin can? Does 4.7 Bess allow us to run horizontal & vertical stretch concepts the same way Austin can? Austin helps creates space where as Bess minimizes it. Cmon, man. You act like Austin is a luxury pick who does nothing for the offense other than what the coaches specifically diagram for him, but that couldn't be further from the truth. He expands our offense more so than just about any guy in the draft. You love Stedman Bailey, right? Do you honestly think Bailey would've had the same level of success w/o Tavon working the slot next to him? Austin helps us attack every blade of grass b/c from the slot he can get to either sideline and 50+ yards downfield. No perimeter receiver can accomplish that. Not trying to be a dick but it's nuts reading stuff that makes it seem like Austin would limit or impair our offense. This guys is a matchup nightmare who creates opportunities.
"Other better suited"? You can find those "other receivers" all through the draft and in FA every year. They're not special. Tavon Austin is special, and opportunities to grab a player like him are few and far between.
Why would Austin stop us from taking Patton or Swope? I understand why we wouldn't want to draft a slot receiver (Bailiey) after taking a premiere slot receiver like Austin, but I don't see the problem there, yet you seem to think it's a bad thing.
He's solid. Solid is not good enough to change your philosophy over. I'm not saying there is a once in a lifetime player at 12. I'm saying the only time you should change your philosophy is if you have a shot at one. Again, Austin is not special. I don't understand why people fall all over themselves for players that aren't special. He may turn out to be, but Ginn had a chance too. The draft and WRs in particular are such a crap shoot, I don't see gambling big on a guy that doesn't run the full route tree when your offense demands that and there's metric tons of other WRs who do.
After Bailey, Patton, Patterson, and Keenan Allen. Those are the WRs (in order) I'd take before Austin.
I don't think its a bad thing so settle down. I think if Ireland goes big on Austin, he won't go WR again until the bottom of the draft. If I was in charge of the draft this year, I 'd probably grab 2 of Patton, Swope & Bailey in whatever round I had to and on successive picks if necessary.
I absolutely believe Bailey would have been just as good without Austin as he is with him. Bailey drew coverage away from Austin's zone and created the space for him to work in. Take Bailey away from Austin, and I don't think Austin is nearly as good of a player.
He's not, but I think he can be as well as play on the outside. Bailey is more similar to Randall Cobb than Austin is, IMO. This is a better comparison for Austin, IMO. [video=youtube;THjEkvXdNRo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THjEkvXdNRo[/video] Would you spend the 12th pick in the draft on Andrew Hawkins?
Again, why is there a need to change philosophies with Austin? I don't understand that. Doesn't run the full route tree? How do you arrive at the conclusion he runs a limited route tree? Even if he did run a limited route tree (which couldn't be further from the truth), who gives a sh**? You get open; you catch the ball. Period. He could run 3 routes, but if he runs them well, gets open routinely, catches the ball, and is productive, then what the heck would it matter? The guy is a nightmare to cover. End of story. If Austin isn't special then your boy Bailey belongs in the CFL.
I already have.... in your own draft thread. http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?74812-Tavon-Austin-A-Metrics-Breakdown/page2
I don't disagree that he can play outside, but his position of greatest upside based on his size and speed might be in the slot, and I can easily see a GM drafting him with the slot in mind first and foremost but with the ability to move him around with his experience on the perimeter.
It works both ways. If you think Austin didn't open up opportunities and some nice 1 on 1s for Bailey then we'll have to agree to disagree.
Hawkins is a poor man's Austin who is still learning the position. Austin, however, is a receiver through and through who understands the game and the position, and yes, I'd spend a #12 pick on an elite, versatile, slot/move receiver who has difference-maker potential, opens up the offense, helps creates space & opportunity for others, and can see 120+ touches per year.
I'm curious how you think he's going to get 120+ touches in the West Coast Offense style that Miami runs when Randall Cobb is apparently your model for his use in this offense. Cobb only ran the ball 10 times last year, and he has a much stronger build and frame than Austin. Even Percy Harvin doesn't run the ball that much, and he's much more built to be a runner than Austin is.
Talent + Speed+ seemingly good character+ durability.....I'm not sure what your looking for in a prospect. You want someone bigger I take it..like Patterson?
BTW, you guys keep speaking of "our philosophy". How do you guys know what our offensive philosophy is or isn't? Did Ireland & Philbin tell us? Do you think we were able to execute last year with 2 receivers, Hartline & Bess at that, in accordance with whatever philosophy they have? All we know is what Philbin ran at GB, Sherman at TAMU, and what they've mentioned about wanting from the offense. What we do know is Philbin has successfully utilized an Xfactor type slot receiver (Cobb). Put a check next to Austin. We know they want more explosiveness, speed, and improved vertical ability. Put another check next to Austin. We know they want more big plays. Another check. We know they want to run the read option with Tannehill more often this year. Another check for Austin. We know Philbin's offense in GB greatly involved the slot receiver, stretched the field from the slot, and sent the most targets to his slot guys. Check for Austin.
Guess our coordinators are against moving a player around to get a free release, man up on Tavon and he beats you, your toast..he will get plenty if free releases, just like Welker does.
You wanna see why Austin makes a TON of sense? Watch this 2011 clip of Greg Jennings playing the slot vs Denver (7 catches, 103 yards, 1 TD). This is exactly the type of stuff Austin would be doing in Miami. 7 catches. 6 from the slot. No press coverage. 1 from the outside on an easy quick pass meant to give Jennings a chance to break a play. [video=youtube;bw00cPvgodc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw00cPvgodc[/video] You guys need to quit thinking inside the box and quit thinking like we're a 2 WR formation only offense.
So, we should spend the 12th pick in the draft on a player that we have to move around and put him into a position to get free releases (primarily because his size will keep him from getting off press coverage) along with paying $12+ million to a one trick pony in Mike Wallace?
It's easier to find a good slot receiver than it is to find a good outside receiver. No need to spend a first round pick on someone who can only play the slot.
