The thing is, what the Dolphins need to find is someone that can play the slot and both outside receiver positions. I think people keep conveniently ignoring that one of the major things that makes this offense go is the fact that the receivers are all interchangeable. There are no slot only receivers in Green Bay's offense.
Cobb 2012: 80 catches + 10 rushes + 69 returns = 159 touches Harvin 2011: 87 catches + 52 rushes + 16 returns= 155 touches Returns should count as touches b/c field position and extra TDs matter, as Cobb & Harvin combined for 5 return TDs the past 2 years. I get your point about Cobb being the more appropriate build to carry the ball, but GB also doesn't run the read option like we'll be doing with Tannehill, and in that regard Austin's build is fine b/c he'll be the pitch man in space rather than a back trying to take it up the middle.
Cobb was thrown to 102 times, 86 catches, and had 14 rush attempts counting playoffs. He also had 42 kick and 36 punt returns. It would reasonable to expect the same from Austin IMO.
86 fu&$in catches..14 rush attempts..78 touches on returns....lol.. Please man, Tavon Austin would tear that number of touches up..
Why do we need to move around an elite slot receiver? I don't understand that. Why do we not let him simply do his thing in the slot like I just showed with the Jennings clip? He's not gonna get pressed very often there so I'm not sure your point with that. Not to mention you might as well consider it a starting position. Just as you would obviously love an outstanding guy starting on the perimeter, what's so terrible about having an elite starting slot receiver?
The problem is that he can only play in the slot. When you run two wide sets, he will have to come off the field.
That comment alone makes your entire argument against Austin weak sauce. Those two shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath, sentence, paragraph or book.
That's an oversimplification, Roddy. This isn't just a good slot receiver just as Greg Jennings just isn't any ole slot receiver. It's an elite slot receiver. Why do you treat the slot position as if it's the ugly red-headed step sister of the outside receiver when in fact it's MORE utilized than the outside? It's possibly THE MOST important & dynamic position in this offense if Philbin wants to use it like he has in the past.
People slotted Wilson as a third fourth round pick..well, they must of been doing that because of his size and not understanding what he could do with the ball in his hands.. I feel that folks are undervaluing this player because of a simple measurable, lack of height.. Follow up question, what kind of receiver do you want ? Because there's no way you can tell me that you don't want what Austin brings to the table from a dynamic talent/speed perspective, so what is it?, are you afraid he's not tall enough?
yet I just showed you GB playing Denver where 6 of Jennings' 7 catches came from the slot, and his only catch on the outside was a quick pass at the LOS that involved not an ounce of route running difficulty. You're acting obtusely on this IMO.
I think you are under the impression that, in this style of offense, one receiver position is favored over the others. That simply isn't the case. The fact of the matter is the ability of each receiver to run all routes from all three positions is what makes this offense and the passing concepts of this offense work as well as it does. Greg Jennings is not a slot only guy. Neither is Jordy Nelson or James Jones. The fact that these three can line up all over the field gives Green Bay tremendous flexibility in their passing concepts. This is also why this idea that Miami has to bring in a "#1 receiving option" is horse crap as well, because there is no #1 receiver in this offense. There isn't one guy that you target first on every play and then make reads based off that.
Why would you want to run 2 WR sets to the point you're limiting Tavon's opportunities? That doesn't make any sense. You don't bring in an elite slot guy like Tavon Austin to put him on the bench. You run tons of 3+ WR formations just as the Packers do. He's gonna need a breather, so that's perfect time to switch up personnel, and he can move to tailback in the pistol and still be on the field during these 2 WR sets. He's not a neophyte as a route runner, so there are plenty of ways to keep him on the field on the perimeter, just like Green Bay did with the quick pass to Jennings, and just like Green Bay does with Nelson, Cobb, and Jones. I think some of us are so accustomed to watching our playmaking-less receiver group that we forget teams with ACTUAL playmakers don't need to get all crazy in the route running department on every play in order to be successful. There are plenty of easy, high-percentage routes Tavon can run on the outside to get the ball in his hands and let him do his thing, and you can always use him as a decoy on the outside b/c his speed has to be respected. If we can line up running backs, TEs, full backs, and terrible practice squad receivers on the perimeter, we most certainly could line up a legitimate receiver with special abilities like Tavon there. If Welker can line up outside occasionally then so can Tavon.
Ginn & Austin are not remotely close to being similar other than having elite speed. Not mentally, not physically, not ability-wise, not heart-wise, not game smarts-wise, not awareness-wise. None of it.
I dare corners to try and press Austin at flanker when they can't immediately get their hands on him.
Pretty risky to try and press a guy who is quicker than 98% of the corners. He beats the jam and the corner has no chance.
another over-simplification. I think you're under the impression that our receivers will spend their time completely divided among all 3 WR positions. Jennings spent most of his time in slot. Cobb spends most of his time in the slot. Jones & Nelson spend most of their time outside. They spend most of their time at their main position IIRC. The biggest exception is in 4 WR sets where Nelson or Jones will sometimes line up in the slot for obvious reasons; however in our 4+ WR sets there should be no reason to move Austin outside. They'll also move Cobb around to help get him the ball in space, which we could likewise do with Austin. So to reiterate, in 4+ receiver sets, Austin in the slot has nothing to do with nor impedes any other Miami receiver from playing inside. There shouldn't be much reason to play Austin on the outside more than 10% of the time, and there should be little reason to play our perimeter receivers in the slot in place of an elite slot receiver like Austin unless it's to put Austin in a favorable matchup on the outside like getting him lined up on a linebacker or safety in space.
Sigh. I didn't say they were the same player. I used Ginn as an example of a dynamic receiver that didn't make it, because I was specifically talking about the crap shoot at WR in the draft. For both of you to over react to that is ridiculous.
I've been pretty vocal about wanting Bailey, Patton and/or Swope. So i'm not hung up on size or measurables. I'm looking for WC Wrs. I'm not convinced Austin is one. I think its weird that he wasn't really mentioned all that much until the combine anyway. Everyone in the draft forum was drooling over Bailey and Patterson.
And none of them are named Tavon either. So what? The point is that a small receiver who is much smaller than the guys covering him can still be very effective, either inside or outside. And while Austin may be a little smaller than those guys, he is A LOT faster than guys like Welker, Amendola, Moore, etc.
I don't think Ginn is a dynamic receiver, myself. He's a fast receiver but I wouldn't call him dynamic.
You really want to have a semantics fight? Cause I don't. I'm just not convinced he's a WR that can run every route. If he can and we grab him, then great. I still believe Bailey, Patton and Swope are better fits and their floors are better than the ceilings of what we have already.
Fin. you know thats not my style, you can go back and look at posts, ive had austin over bailey, and i'm not near as a fan of Patterson as this board, ive written in the draft forum the reasons why i would take Austin and Eifert over him, countless points on how i dont believe in him as a pass catcher..Ive had Keenan Allen as my fav, but after seeing blistering speed on display, and matching that up with his reps in college and what he can do from an elusiveness angle, I do have to rethink that, i love the completeness that Allen brings to the table, but this kid austin is something else..Im also not saying any of them at 12 if certain defenders are on the board, im simply talking about in a trade down scenario, or, if there are no suitors for that, and none of my preferred defenders on the board, which offensive skillset player am i gonna take..I would def take Austin over Patterson...With eifert, im gonna have to do more work.
Is there an outdated perspective of what makes a west coast receiver?..cause to me west coast means stretching the field horizontally as much as anything else.
yes I do. c'mon put-em-up put-em-uuuuup. Bailey was a great college receiver and is a promising looking prospect but I don't see how you can label a sub 5'10, 193 pound, 4.52 receiver as having any higher of a floor than Austin. If Bailey is moved to the slot in the NFL, he's second fiddle to Austin in that role, and if that weren't the case he'd be drafted in the 1st round ahead of Tavon. Austin should bear no impact on whether or not we draft Patton or Swope, and if we happen to sign Wallace I'm not sure why we'd draft a small receiver like Bailey to start on the outside opposite him. We all know the WR group needs to be majorly upgraded. If we sign Wallace that leaves the draft to finish it. IMO it's irresponsible to: a) have a big need at WR and choose ignore it with the first pick with the mindset of taking x, y, or z player later despite there being an elite receiver at one position available at our 1st pick. b) have the mindset that x, y, or z will actually be there at our later picks as if 31 other teams aren't also drafting. What happens when you ignore the elite slot receiver/xfactor Austin and Patton hypothetically is drafted before 2a, Swope is drafted right before 2b, and then Bailey is either drafted before our 3a pick or we're forced to reach for him at 2b and in turn cost ourself a great value pick that we could've otherwise had if we didn't needlessly put our backs against the wall? Then what, reach for another WR to round out the corps? Sorry, no thank you. If Austin is the biggest difference maker available at #12 we should take him, and that leaves us rounds 2 through 4 to finish up WR when the best value presents itself. IMO the only viable exception would be if either we have a dire need at corner and we take Xavier Rhodes or one of the other top prospects at his position slides.
I've been mentioning him for a while thank you. A lot of people saw the return game and rushing performance vs Oklahoma and likely pigeon-holed him as a athlete rather than receiver, which is obviously wrong. If Austin can't be a WC WR then I'm not sure what you think actually qualifies. He's lightening quick and explodes out of his breaks, has tremendous lateral & COD ability, creates instant separation, has great balance & body control, possesses solid hands (very low drop rate), plays smart, seems to understand coverage, can find soft spots, all of which he uses to his advantage in his route running. For crap sake his ability is ideal for a WC slot receiver. That's your WC receiver right there- tough to cover, gets open quickly, can run sharp routes, understands the game, can catch, and can make plays after the catch.
Patterson with our 1st pick Austin with our 2nd 1 vet FA WR most vital position locked for the next 3 years by Thor's hammer.
