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Team Needs

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Disgustipate, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Didn't see one, and its halfway through the position so things seem fairly crystallized at this point.

    QB- The obvious. Most likely our 1st round pick.

    HB- Doubtful, in my mind. Daniel Thomas looked very good when healthy, and Reggie Bush looks like 40-60% of snaps.

    FB- Both Charles Clay and Lex Hilliard have done solid to this point.

    WR- Marshall, drops aside, has been up to career standards. Hartline and Bess have disappointed this year, and not entirely due to circumstances. I'd tend to think there probably wouldn't be a significant change here, however, unless BPA/value.

    TE- Fasano's emergence as a receiver has gone under the radar a bit because his volume isn't great, but under better circumstances he might be a break-out player. He's catching 75% of his passes, and he's got the best yards per reception of any tight end with over 60% of his teams snaps. His oft-complained of separation skills have not really changed, as much as he's adapted to simply coming down with the ball even when well-covered.

    Clay also looks like he's got a tremendous amount of upside as a developmental prospect. If he can consistently play up to the upside he's displayed thus far, he could be a very good player, and remarkably well-rounded.

    OL- LT and C are filled. RT is a need for sure. The guard positions could be replaced but I wouldn't be surprised if Incognito was retained depending on the offensive line style.

    I'd tend to imagine Nate Garner would end up as a starter, with better coaching/management.

    NT/4-3 DT/3-4 DE- This is likely to be very scheme and style specific, but I doubt there will be significant resources spent beyond what I think is a choice between resigning Kendall Langford or Paul Soliai.

    4-3 DE/3-4 OLB- We need an edge rush outside of Wake. We've got enough guys who can play the edge on run downs they could look towards a Nickel substitute. Cameron Wake has transitioned to playing full-time on the strong side in base 3-4 packages vs. the tight end, so we've got flexibility if it's a 3-4 package in WOLB vs. SOLB.

    3-4 ILB/4-3 LBs- Karlos Dansby can play anything. Kevin Burnett has seemed to have shaken off his funk and become a pretty good player, and could also nail down another position. Given the trend of late towards on-the-line 4-3 OLB, Koa Misi could be the 3rd man pretty easily.

    CB- This might be a group that needs better coaching to shine. Vontae Davis and Sean Smith have both shown big upside, and Jimmy Wilson was a solid starter early, so I'd tend to think he could hold down the Nickel.

    Safety- They could go a lot of places on this one. Chris Clemons was a good starter in 2010, so you think a new coach might revisit that. Yeremiah Bell is getting older, but still playing well, but is a very specific style not all coaches may like. It's possible he could lose his position to Clemons, and a more ball-hawk type player could go to FS.
     
  2. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    1. Qb
    2. Rt
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  3. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    If they do go back to a 4-3 they need to find out what they have in Phillip Merling. Does anyone know an accurate number on that dude's weight? He was such a tremendous 4-3 defensive end at Clemson, I hate seeing his career go down like this.

    The same goes for Koa Misi. If they do go to a 4-3 you have to make a choice and decide is he the new type of SLB as Digustipate mentioned like Manny Lawson or he is a nickel pass rusher. I like him in the latter role just because Dansby would be an even better strong-side linebacker.

    A lineup like (run-downs):

    RE- Wake
    RDT- Starks
    LDT- Soliai
    LDE- Langford
    SLB- Dansby
    MLB- Acquire a new guy
    WLB- Burnett

    Nickel:

    RE- Misi
    RDT- Odrick
    LDT- Starks
    LDE- Wake
    WLB- Burnett
    SLB- Dansby

    Could have a large amount of success.
     
  4. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think it's more likely that you'd end up with someone like Kendall Langford or Jared Odrick as playing 4-3 DE's. They've both been Nickel DE's in 4-man lines, and while they haven't been great they've overall proven better pass rushers than Merling in the NFL.

    You've also got to consider Phillip Merling has done something really stupid. He hasn't seen a snap since the San Diego game.
     
  5. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I'm not surprised it seemed like he hadn't played in a long time. Still David Bowens hung around for a while before he got playing time. I'd like to see the same from Merling. I do like Langford for that four-man line and I hadn't realized they were using him in the nickel. At least he has experience there, Odrick has none at that spot.

    By the way you have to explain to me something. What's the alignment in the base 3-4 now that we have Wake playing an every down-line SOLB? Starks is playing what a five technique with Soliai at a zero and Langford at the other five? Seems like the team is really stretching to allow Wake to play wide against the right tackle. I think we have great pieces on the defense to just go with a 4-3 under with Wake-Starks-Soliai-Langford.
     
  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, that's basically it as far as I remember in terms of the alignment.

    I don't think there is a lot of issue with Wake playing SOLB. He's not really had any issues playing over tight end outside of the Patriots game that I've seen. If he's more comfortable there, it gives us flexibility on the other side.
     
  7. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    If I'm not mistaken we're doing something fairly similar to what Tennessee is doing with Ball and Ayers. It's not a bad look it just doesn't lend itself to creating pressure out of the three DL.

    Any thoughts on Kevin Burnett as a Mike in a 4-3?
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm still unfortunately in the infant stages of building my list of player wants for the Dolphins, because the QB issue is such a big one and the position is so nuanced that it takes a lot of time to scout them.

    But there are some safeties I'd love to see on the team like Jerrell Young of South Florida, Duke Ihenacho of San Jose State, and Brandon Taylor of LSU.

    I think Courtney Upshaw should be a strong consideration depending on where we're picking in the 1st round and what's going on with Brandon Weeden's draft stock. Upshaw could play opposite Cameron Wake in a multiple/odd-front defense.

    I doubt Shayne Skov declares after injuring his knee but if he did then I would love to have him here wherever he goes. Luke Kuechly is interesting because by the time he gets weighed and measured, tested, timed, etc...he could sink down the boards. If there's any guy that's got Zach Thomas' story, it'll be Kuechly. Not fast, not really that big. Just really in tune with the ball and a sound tackler. Tank Carder I would love to get hold of whichever way I can, for any number of roles. I like Chris Galippo as well.

    If we're looking for more a stronger, bigger defensive end because we're switching to a defense where that is necessary, I like Jake Bequette from Arkansas.

    Levy Adcock would be an excellent player on the OL wherever you want to put him. Jeff Allen as well.

    I like the thought of guys like a Joe Adams, T.Y. Hilton or Chris Rainey to play the slot.

    I like Joe Fauria and Josh Chichester at Tight End.

    I like Vick Ballard, Isaiah Pead, Cyrus Gray, Jeff Demps and Dennis Johnson at Running Back.
     
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  9. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Good list. What would be your idea of Upshaw if the team went with that route?
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    '

    What do you mean? As I said he would play opposite Cam Wake in a multiple/odd-front defense. If we remain a 3-4 then he'd probably be the ROLB.
     
  11. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    That looks like a 5-2 really. I doubt Wake ever sees coverage outside of a short zone. He's probably worse than Roth in that regard.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You could put either of them in coverage IMO. It's not that difficult or onerous.

    Also Cam Johnson would be an interesting guy to add to the defense as well.
     
  13. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Almost a 2008 Miami Bum-Phillips 3-4 is what you're looking at then. That would be nasty pressure wise, really ugly especially if you got away with having Starks as the NT and Odrick the RDE. I'd like to see that actually. That D did pretty well against Brady in their base packages years ago. I like Cam Johnson too how you would get all of them I don't know, but Upshaw brings flexibility for a nickel front as an edge rusher too so knock out that problem.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Fletcher Cox looks like a nice player as well, though a junior.

    Like Kenny Tate too, though tough to see where exactly he fits.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    OT Bobby Massey of Ole Miss is a junior but he looks really interesting to me as well.
     
  16. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Does seem like a natural RT although Reiff is more experienced no? Both seem like major improvements over Colombo.
     
  17. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If we draft a ROLB, do we try putting Misi on the inside, or rotate him on the outside?
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't see anything wrong with allowing Misi to earn his playing time.

    I admit, if you draft a Courtney Upshaw then Misi is not getting much playing time. However, I think you can find packages to put him in the game...and eventually yes, you could put him inside once he's got a good enough feel for the game. This is a lot like with Sean Smith, I was against putting Sean at safety for his first three years because he was still developing his feel for the game and feel for defense. Same with Misi in his first two years. But they're not pups anymore. They should be getting enough along that they have the versatility to move inside if we feel like we've got better options on the outside.
     
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  19. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks. It just pains me to draft positions that we've already tried to address with previous picks. Merling-Odrick comes to mind. I don't even want to get into the OL.

    Misi IMO has been solid, but not a great pass rusher, so I wouldn't be against getting another guy opposite of Wake, and hopefully move in Misi IF he can make the switch. I think he has the physical tools to play inside, so we'll see what happens.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Merling-Odrick was a little different in that I thought at the time we drafted Odrick it had been long apparent that Phil Merling was a total bust as a 3-4 DE.

    The other thing is I don't know exactly how long we'd plan on having Cam Wake here, and so if you've got Misi and Upshaw aside from Wake, you have some flexibility in your contract negotiations with Wake, and you also have some schematic flexibility in case during some games Cam just isn't cutting it as a run stopper on the left side and you need to sort of sub him out some to get Koa on there in pass coverage and as a run stopper, and have Wake focus more on pass rush downs which are his specialty. Not that I'm saying you should dial down Wake's snap participation to a great extent, but I think with their varied skill sets there would be plenty of room for a Courtney Upshaw, Cameron Wake and Koa Misi to all play.
     
  21. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you're considering using our first on a position other than QB, is there really not a ball hawking FS in the draft worthy Top 10 instead for the short term? Pass rushers are present in every draft it seems, so just curious if we can get a safety in lieu of Upshaw if we plan on taking Weeden or Tannenhill in the second.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    No I really don't see a safety that I would put up there unfortunately.

    I think you're better off at that position going with someone a little later like a Jerrell Young, Duke Ihenacho, Brandon Taylor, Josh Bush or Janzen Jackson (if he comes out). Maybe you convert someone like Robert Golden or Larry Parker.

    I like all of those guys a lot.

    If I'm taking Upshaw in the 1st round then yes the idea would be Brandon Weeden in the 2nd round.
     
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  23. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks. Gonna go read up on those guys.
     
  24. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Even though it's not a primary need it'd be tough passing on a guy like Morris Claiborne with just how incredibly difficult it is to find true elite cover corners. I think he has that kind of potential and it would be something if Miami could have a top guy like that regardless of other needs. Almost reminds you of 2006 in that Miami has a chance at a flawed QB prospect, but has the choice of a top LB and an absolute top cover corner yet passes because they fill they're ok at the position.

    Claiborne-Davis-Smith-Wilson

    That's a nasty group.
     
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  25. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend Club Member

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    the next dimension
    Should have picked Earl :pity:
     
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think that's a shout as well, Claiborne would be a good pick as long as you make sure you get Weeden in the 2nd.
     
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  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm watching Larry Parker again, this is probably the 5th time I've seen him this year. He reminds me of Chris Owens, who I loved back when he played at San Jose State. Coye Francies was the more impressive physical specimen back then but Owens was always quicker and a better play maker. He attacked in tackling better, and attacked the ball better. Owens is still playing and Francies is bouncing around the league.

    The first thing to notice about Parker's movement skills is he's not by any means a long strider. Very short strider, very quick hips, very agile. When he plays off coverage, he's very aggressive about pulling the trigger and closing on the short route. He doesn't let bigger players keep him blocked and always makes himself available in support against the run. Fearless against big guys, even offensive linemen. If the ball is coming at him and a lineman is coming for him as well, his attitude is, he's got to be where he's got to be, and somehow he's going to impact this play. Very natural for sort of a Tampa Two style of play, always keeping your eye on the quarterback in your zone. When asked to play press he can get a little jarred off the initial contact but he does a good job skating on thin ice with the officials, scrapping his way back into good coverage physically with maybe a little jersey pull if necessary...something usually not going to get called within the 5 yard area. Basically you're seeing an underlying scrappiness in his play, a do-what-it-takes mentality from a no-nonsense player. Again I have to emphasize though, super quick hips that can help bail him out of danger when he makes a mistake in his technique. That's part of the reason I've been intrigued with the guy as a free safety. He shows a constant level of communication on the field and adjusts his coverage pre-snap seamlessly. You can tell he's a leader in the secondary.

    Boise State went after Larry Parker 4 times. The first time they went to him was out of a trips formation, then they motioned one of the guys out to the perimeter and Parker recognized it, recognized Boise's tendency in that situation, got into his off coverage position, but closed on the ball like lightning when Kellen Moore went to go to the perimeter player on the short hitch. Parker closed on the ball so fast he got a PBU on the short hitch which is excellent. The second time they went after Parker, they got him in man with outside leverage having to run with their big receiver Matt Miller toward the middle, where the receiver created some separation on the curl to the inside with Parker again having the outside shoulder leverage. Tough cover, schematically...the robber needed to do a better job getting underneath the passing lane. Third time they threw at him, they motioned Potter all the way to the perimeter and tried to go with the jerk route. Parker played his off coverage, mirrors the jerk to the inside and when he recognizes the break to the outside he closes on the ball path but gets too aggressive on the ball and not on the receiver, so when he slips a little bit and the ball barely scoots by him the receiver gets some RAC. He got up off the ground and recovered quickly though and helped make the tackle. The fourth time they went after Parker was with Matt Miller isolated in man coverage with no safety help. Parker had inside leverage and stayed in Miller's hip pocket the whole way, not losing any position on the double-move, squeezing Miller to the sideline and forcing a very difficult throw from Kellen Moore, who throws it out of bounds. Matt Miller pass interfered with Parker on the play, grabbed the back of his helmet and pushed him down. It went uncalled even though it was blatant IMO, but it didn't matter much because Parker popped back up quickly and never lost position. A better throw and that could have been caught, but ONLY because of the offensive pass interference, which I think would have gotten flagged if Moore had thrown the ball catchable.

    Now the down side to all this is despite his aggressive, get-it-done mentality as a support player...he's still a small guy. This is ultimately why I'm not sure I want him as a last line of defense at free safety. Twice Doug Martin ran the ball into the end zone in Larry Parker's area. The first time was tough because it was a man coverage assignment and so he got caught up staying in the hip pocket, the front seven and safeties lost contain as Doug Martin sprinted out to the perimeter, and by the time Parker realized the run was on, WR Matt Miller (who is much bigger than Parker at 6'3" and 215 lbs) was blocking him pretty well in the end zone. Parker got off the block and made a launch at Martin, got him down, but it was too late...ball crossed the goal line. Other time was a straight up missed tackle. Again, looks more on Parker than it really is because the front seven should have been able to impede Martin's clear path to the outside better, but still Parker runs the alley and goes for the tackle but because of his small stature, Martin was able to stiff-arm him to the ground and then get the big TD run.

    I think Parker can be coached to be a safer tackler though. I have a tough time thinking that Earl Thomas can be a final line of defense at safety but Larry Parker cannot.
     
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  28. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    According to his profile page, he's 5-11, 170. Yeesh. Earl Thomas is around 200 pounds.

    6 interceptions, though. Impressive.
     
  29. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Thomas may only be 200 lbs. with a dose of water.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    And I doubt Parker is 170 lbs anymore.
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Within a four game stretch against Washington State, Michigan, TCU and Air Force, Larry Parker had 5 interceptions, 3 forced fumbles, and 1 (separate) fumble recovery.
     
  32. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    I say we take BPA. So hopefully Blackmon or Richardson.
     
  33. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Any thoughts on Kirk Cousins in the 3rd-4th and turning him into a bit of a project. I still use the old 30 starts, 60% completion percentage in a pro style offense rule when evaluating quarterbacks. I understand his footwork breaks down under heavy pressure but with work I think he can be a real good pro player. He reminds me of Henne with some touch passing and a legitimate PA game.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If I'm stuck picking a Kirk Cousins in the 3rd or 4th round it's because I failed at my job in the 1st & 2nd rounds in a very big way. Failure is not an option to me, so no I don't think much of Kirk Cousins in the 3rd or 4th round as a project player.
     
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  35. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Please, Miami, not again with this "let's wait until the later rounds" stuff. Please do not put all your hope in the Matt Moore basket.
     
  36. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree. The draft is all about odds. The players you take early are the guys you believe have the highest odds of success. The QB position is the most important one on the field so I'm looking to take the smallest gamble there possible. I'm not going to feel good about drafting even a HOF player at another position if it means that I'm significantly lowering my odds of drafting a franchise QB.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    More like "Please, Miami, no more of the laissez-faire aww shucks attitude of waiting for the right quarterback to drop down to you at the right pick."

    That's how Miami would end up having to try a project like Kirk Cousins in the 4th round. Negligence. They'll be picking at #8 or #9 and really want Matt Barkley or Landry Jones, then when they both go #2 and #7 overall they'll be like aww shucks, guess we've got to wait until our next draft pick. Then the next draft pick rolls around and both Brandon Weeden and Ryan Tannehill are off the board by pick #40, aww shucks, I guess it wasn't right we're just going to have to wait another round and get a project like Kirk Cousins.
     
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  38. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My only reason for optimism is that I don't think ross would let that happen.

    If he lets Ireland stay I imagine Ireland will have his marching orders to acquire a first round QB, or some other "franchise" QB (like Manning, potentially)
     
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  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's true. How weird is it that for as much crap as Steve Ross gets, he's basically our guardian angel in this respect?
     
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  40. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ross may not be a football guy, but he understands the basics, and he also understands what this fanbase needs to come back in droves.

    Let's assume we end up with 5 wins, which I think is reasonable and pick 7th or 8th. If I'm Ross, given the relationship he has with Ireland, maybe I let him stay and we hire a coach together.

    Then I instrcut Ireland to call Indy and try and blow them away. I'm not negotiating. I put my best offer on the table consisting of players and picks on the table and tell them it's open until they're on the clock. If that doesn;t work I already have deals in place to move up to secure Barkley, presuming he comes out. I over pay if I have to.

    If Indy flat refuses and says they are not trading, I might get intrigued by Manning, presuming he's healthy
     
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