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Team Needs

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Disgustipate, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't characterize the last draft as a "laissez-faire aww shucks attitude". IMO after Newton and Gabbert all the QBs were poor risk/reward selections at the point they went. They may all turn into Tom Brady, but as prospects they're below much of this year's crop.
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Isn't that a way of saying even if I'm wrong I was still right?

    I'm sorry but I don't buy that logic. If you're a scout or General Manager, it's your job to predict the future. You don't justify having passed on Tom Brady by saying "Well he wasn't a very good prospect, so I was right to pass on him". You look yourself in the mirror and say, what the hell was I thinking? How did I miss that?

    If guys like Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder, Colin Kaepernick and/or Ryan Mallett turn out to be awesome pros then Jeff Ireland has to look at himself in the mirror, admit he ****ed up, and ask himself what he learned from it. As should every GM/scout that was in a similar situation and turned up wrong.

    Well, unless he wants to continue being a sh-tty GM, which could be the case.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You know what's funny about this is, if the reports are right about what happened, and I don't really doubt the accuracy of those reports....Steve Ross made a better call on Kyle Orton than Jeff Ireland. Steve Ross, who takes all kinds of sh-t for not being a football guy, wanting the Dolphins to be some celebrity team, etc...he vetoed that Kyle Orton trade. Jeff Ireland was ready to trade a 3rd or 4th round pick and give Kyle Orton a 3 year deal worth $9 million per year with a bunch of guaranteed money. Steve Ross said no. A few months later, Orton's on waivers.
     
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  4. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Most GMs miss picks so the truth is you're graded on a curve. If Ireland doesn't take the risk on one of those guys, but then lands a similar QB in the next draft then he isn't going to be a considered a sh-tty GM.

    And I'm not saying that it's okay to always miss. The draft is about playing the odds. You're placing higher bets on the early picks b/c you're more confident about them. In the long run, the GM who takes the fewest risks with the big bets will probably outlast the guy who is taking the poorer prospects early. And a good GM would then look at the prospects that were graded lower and see if he can figure out why he missed. Then tweak his evaluations going forward.
     
  5. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly. It didn't take all that much football knowledge to see that while Orton may have been better than Henne, which he is, he is not a franchise caliber QB that you pay $27 million to and make him your unquestioned starter.

    Same thing with Moore. He is playing better than I thought he would, but not so well that I'm getting fooled.

    All I'm certain of is this, Ross is going to ask Ireland what the plan is at QB at the end of the season. Ireland better have a good answer (just a hint Jeff, the correct answer is not "stick with Matt Moore")
     
  6. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Agreed mostly, but I could see the reports being accurate and Ireland still having given the right evaluation. Say Ireland was told to find a QB and he came back and said we could trade for Orton at a cost of 3rd or 4th round pick and $9 million per. This will appease the fanbase that is chanting Orton at practice and make you/us look like we're listening to our customers. However, he's not a long-term solution. At best, you may get a Pennington type year out of him, but that's not likely. I think we're just as likely to succeed with Henne. Also it may hurt our ability to trade up in the next draft for a QB if necessary. How much is it worth it to you to appease the fanbase for one season? To which Ross says, not that much, we'll take our lumps this year, hope Henne pans out, but regardless we'll get that QB next draft. That scenario would support the reports that Ross nixed the deal and the rumors that he trusts Ireland.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If that's the best plan that Jeff Ireland could come up with, then that doesn't speak very highly of him.
     
  8. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't see that looking to take a QB in what many are saying is the best QB class since '83 as a horrid plan.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Except that, just as many things went wrong in the previous Draft which guided that they took no quarterback at all despite having spent more time and resources on that position than any other, things could also go wrong in this Draft. Andrew Luck goes where he goes, it won't be Miami, Matt Barkley decides to stay in school to pursue a championship now that the bowl ban is lifted, Landry Jones and Ryan Tannehill aren't particularly better prospects than the guys we saw a year ago, if at all, someone beats you to the punch on Brandon Weeden, and then what?

    And in the mean time you've wasted an entire season of losing, the fans hate the team, they're not showing up to games or buying tickets, players around the league are viewing Miami as a place they don't really want to be (see Sparano's unpopularity), you're forced to change your Head Coach because of the losing which means a whole lot of team turnover, and you yourself are probably going to be fired because the team is going nowhere and has no prospects for going anywhere, no quarterback for the future that is being groomed.

    Yeah. That's a GREAT plan.
     
  10. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    It may still end up being the best of several bad options.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Here is CB Larry Parker of SDSU. Reminds me of Chris Owens.

    [video=youtube_share;T4da9ewkgFM]http://youtu.be/T4da9ewkgFM[/video]
     
  12. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    End of the day I think there are two positions that you must spend high picks to acquire the right players. RT, S, and RG are needs you can take care of with free agents, smart management, and using your assets (Garner) wisely.

    QB and ROLB/RE are the two needs that keep this team from getting to the next level. Perhaps Miami will have to trade a future 1st to move up from their 6-10/7-9 record, I don't know, but really that's all it is. The more and more I watch the team it just seems to point to that notion. This is rebuilding year one, the clock starts fresh. Find a quarterback, the rest will fill itself in after with a good GM over the next few years.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree. I think QB and Linebacker are two positions we need to address.
     
  14. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    There's more to address but I just think it's ridiculous that we have to spend so highly to find a friggin right tackle of all positions? All that stuff is secondary. Quarterback and pass rusher are arguably the two most important positions in football.
     
  15. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I think the two positions that absolutely have to be addressed are quarterback and free safety. The quarterback is obvious, but the free safety position is the quarterback for the defense. Yes, we need a pass rusher, but our safety play is what kills this defense more than anything. We aren't getting a good free safety in free agency, and I personaly wouldn't rely on free agency to fill anything.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think we can land a good free safety in Free Agency.
     
  17. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Disagreed. The free safety cupboard is barren after this year’s free agency, when at least 3 good options (Mikell, Weddle, Landry) were available. The best name out there is probably Michael Griffin.

    Probably the best option is to convert a good instinctive cover corner to FS, but there aren’t many of THOSE available either.
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Michael Griffin is who I was referring to. He should be our main priority. With his signing, we can fill the FS position.

    It's not like the draft is full of top notch FS prospects.
     
  19. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Free safety? As long as you're not bleeding miserably there it's fine. It's not great, but compared to pass rushers? It's probably a 2 to 1 worth...

    In due time the team will address that, but compared to a blind-side pass rusher?
     
  20. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Griffin isn’t a great option.

    A free safety who can make plays on the ball is just as if not more valuable and necessary than a #2 pass rusher.
     
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  21. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "If"

    So far, this supposed complete lack of conviction or appropriate value on quarterbacks has been entirely appropriate.

    We're not at any loss at this point starting Matt Moore over Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco.
     
  22. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's a pretty damn good one.
     
  23. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Not really. He’s inferior to the three options we had in August. He’s a better option than the draft, but he has only 4 passes defensed and 1 INT this year.
     
  24. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Tyler Wilson has a good performance against LSU he is a top ten pick in my book. You don't perform better than Matthew Stafford (SEC) in his junior year, with 1 year of starting experience, and then suddenly not appear in the first round discussion unless you have a physical drawback. Wilson doesn't have that. I think he's better than Landry Jones and it would be foolish of him to not take advantage of the number of quarterback hungry teams.
     
  25. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Interesting, I thought Wilson was only a sophomore and that was why he wasn't getting talked about that much. From what I've seen of him this guy's a pretty good player. Why isn't there more talk about him? Is it just because this is his first year starting?
     
  26. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    He's a 4 year JR. I have no idea why he gets no hype! I honestly don't. If Jones, Griffin, and even Foles get hype why does a guy that's performing better than most of them in his first year in the SEC get no hype.
     
  27. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's played in other seasons. Other seasons where he played like a pro bowl caliber safety. Seasons when he was better than Landry and Mikell, who by the way are Strong Safeties, not Free Safeties.

    So yea, he's a pretty good option, one we should entertain.
     
  28. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Also, Laron Landry is a FA, too.
     
  29. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    That was a phenomenal performance by Claiborne. He is playing at his absolute best against top WR prospects and a very good quarterback. We could use two shutdown CBs.
     
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  30. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not a fan of Dashon Goldson from San Francisco? I'm pretty sure he only re-signed to a 1 year deal this past offseason. He's having one of his better, if not best season, so far. Fighting notwithstanding.
     

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