Ted Ginn Jr. I officially put you on notice

dude, jpeezys going to be our new kicker. dont be stoopid stoopid.

 

Oh yeah. I forgot. My bad.

 

Laces out!

Move Zach Thomas to Strong Safety.

 

Okay, I think its about time we let the fans call the shots. We need to cut our losses now and get rid of the dead wood.
Lets cut Ginn, get rid of Ronnie Brown, Pennington and Jake Long. While we are at it we can waive Joey Porter, Channing Crowder, Smiley, Jake Grove and Vernon Carey. We already know that Hartline, Turner, Smith and Vontae Davis are going to be busts so lets dump them before they embarrass us. Stay tuned, next week we will have more names to add to the list. And don't anybody make excuses for them because we all know you are just apologists and homers and none of these guys have excuses for making mistakes.
Geeze, I don't care if Ted Ginn had 50 catches and 250 yards receiving, he didn't catch the winning touchdown and he needs to go! Its his fault we lost and he must take responsibility.

 

OK, we can agree on the part that Ted Ginn, Jr is not an elite WR. That's all I was trying to say I think. I would really like to keep him on the team as our #2.

I actually think he could have a VERY good career as our #2 WR.

However, I do feel he cost us the game. If he makes just one of those TD catches I really think we would have won. It would have boosted our confidence immensely. And put 7 more points on the board.

 

I agree that Ginn should not be considered an elite WR. The problem I have is that people keep pointing to the #9 selection as proof that he has to be elite to justify that selection. Reality is that there has yet to be a draft that had 9 players that were considered elite prospects. Drafts generally have 5 or 6 elite prospects at most. Ginn was not a top 5 guy yet he keeps being compared to those WRs taken earlier. If you eliminate those WRs taken earlier than you find that Ginn's production is pretty much in line with his selection. Yet we still keep hearing people throw out that "bust" line from time to time.

I think the problem is that people have this expectation that a top 10 pick is elite. Maybe its b/c our number system is based on the number 10 and there are top 10 lists every where. But anybody who has studied the draft knows that there aren't 10 elite prospects in any draft. You may end up with more then 10 elite players but they aren't elite prospects. I think Ginn is the victim of people having unreasonable expectations b/c of a poor understanding of the draft.

 

In line with what rafael said, being an elite receiver and being a number one aren't the same. You can be a #1 without being elite.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

I have been against the Ginn draft pick from before the draft.I brought up the point of HIS poor red zone production in college...and thought that teams had figured out his return game...well what has Ginn achieved in 34 games

4 receiving touchdowns...34 games
2 games with over 100 yards receiving out of 34 games
10 games out of 34 with ZERO receptions
9 more games out of 34 with ONE reception
4 more games out of 34 with TWO receptions
4 more games out of 34 with THREE receptions

so 27 out of 34 games Ginn had 3 or less receptions

what does the numbers show???

 

Everyone of those could be explained by the fact that he gets open deep but the ball isn't thrown his way. I think those numbers would be more convincing if he had a ton of drops but the fact is that his catch percentage is very solid.

 

that the balls not being thrown to him??

 

I don't think anyone's ever said he WAS an elite WR. He is what he is. He's quick, he's a much improved route runner, he has good not great hands, although they're improving, he's hamstrung by an offensive system that doesn't have the ability to put the ball down the field so time and again we shy away from doing so because the safety rolls the coverage across to double cover him. That's why Henning puts the ball in his hands on reverses because it's about the only time he gets the ball in space.

I think that believing Ginn cost Miami the game is bordering on lunacy. Leodis McKelvin probably cost Buffalo the game. Throwing a pick 6 when up by 6 with a minute to go costs you the game. Scott Norwood missing a field goal to win a SB costs you the game. Not bringing down a jump ball in the endzone doesn't cost you the game when the defence has fallen apart in under 15 minutes and your kicker has carved a makeable kick wide right.

 

The numbers are more skewed for our offense than for any other team in the league. Post up the numbers of carries for Ronnie Brown or catches for Anthony Fasano, etc. By their own admission Miami doesn't want a star on offense. They want to be able to control defences by giving them gameplanning nightmares. Last season was the perfect example. Against Buffalo it's Ginn who kills you, against the Patriots it's Ronnie Brown, against Denver it was Camarillo, then it was Bess's turn, then Ricky is the hot hand, then David Martin, etc., etc.

 

I guess we will just agree to disagree. But, calling someone a lunatic because they feel Ted Ginn, Jr lost the game for us (twice ) is lunacy.

 

Again, how is dropping two tough passes worse than what Gibril Wilson did? Or worse than the appalling coverage of Ayodele and Crowder on Dallas Clark? Or on the front seven for getting exactly no pressure on Manning? Or for the four missed tackles on the Donald Brown touchdown? Or the missed field goal from 49 yards that would have made that pass to Ginn irrelevant?

10-108 and he just misses a pass at the end that was high, that he comes back for out of the lights and goes up for unbalanced? I don't blame Ginn 1 bit.

 

boomer
as you said...ginn didn't cost us the game. but he is 2 reasons why we Didn't Win the game. there's enuff blame to go around.

 

You're making it sound as tho if he had made it, it would have been the greatest, most difficult catch that man has ever witnessed and that's just ridiculous..

That catch was so difficult, because he's Ted Ginn and going up for a ball where contact is being made is his weakness.....the ball hit him squarely on the hands. There are plenty of WR's that can make that catch....he's just not one of them.

You have to get Ginn in a comfort zone in order to get production.........like near the side line where he can scamper out of bounds asap to avoid any contact. A curl route where he can get to the safety of the ground or streaking down the field beyond anyone's reach.

Not saying Ginn can't produce, but that ball was thrown where it should be in that situation. It has to be up high because you can't afford an interception.

Oh and before too many ppl get crazy, I'm also not saying that Ginn lost the game. But he had it in his hands...........and dropped it. And that's a fact

 

Yeah it pretty much doesn't matter what the guy does. He will always be not good enough to some. They will always find something negative. I mean the kid showed he can run routes and get open, did he drop some balls? Yes. But he can work on that, at least he is showing more growth.

 

Actually from where he was to the goal post was wide open.


And Ginn caught the ball over the middle at 8:40 and 6:40 in the 4th Quarter, and got hit on them. Funny thing, both were on 3rd down too.

 

I dont think it that,he just has not been there to make the big plays we need him to do.Im sorry but theres is no excuses for him this season,but Im sure people will find some.

 

Yep, fair point. The caveat to that being that he was also a MAJOR part of the reason why we were in the game at the end, given that he'd converted a number of massive third downs. Was it 6 of his 10 catches coming on 3rd down?

If Ginn hadn't have been taken over Brady Quinn and if Cam Cameron hadn't upset some of the fanbase with his misunderstood comments about his family, then the pressure on Teddy would be lessened hugely.

 

One other thing: do you support the Miami Dolphins or not? If the answer is yes, then why the hell are you against ANY player on your team?

 

I'm not saying anything of the sort. You're saying it to justify your flawed argument.

 

Dude, I think he's made a number of big plays in his career. What I also think and what some people fail to consider because it's easier to avoid the truth is that Miami don't get the ball to him nearly as often as they could or should. That he's doubled on almost every snap because of the way teams cover his threat. That his true deep speed is negated by the lack of a big armed passer in Chad Pennington.

These are all facts.

Is he Larry Fitzgerald or Charles Johnson or Andre Johnson? No. But at the moment he's the best we have. I think he'd be a much better wideout on a team with bigger and better weapons.

 

That excuse is worn out......other than the occasional Ginn family joke, most ppl have moved beyond 2007 at this point and have been focusing on what they see...... you rarely hear ppl bring up his draft position anymore. It more of a focus on the fact we're being sold Ted Ginn as a number one WR.....which he isn't.

 

Flawed argument?

Well thanks for clearing things up Boom........lol

 

I don't think Penny has the leg strength for kicker.

 

What message board have you been reading?

All the time you see something like "that is not what you expect out of a #9 overall pick, he should be elite." Or "he was a top 10 pick, he should start playing like one."

 

Well it could be because I generally ignore posts with no substance, unless it was it meant in jest.

Just like I try to ignore the posts of those that are tripping over themselves, blindly defending someone because he plays for the Dolphins..

Most of that stuff is due to being over emotional following a loss......I generally wait until some one brings up some actual points.

However, I think the number of ppl still holding on to the fact he was drafted #9 over all, is being exaggerated....

 

I wish I had a nickel for every time someone told me that following a post I made, making a case for replacing Fiedler and Wanny......some of you never learn I guess

 

To borrow from Pofo, are you saying you support the player but not the play? Or support the play but not the player?

In all seriousness, you talk about Fiedler and Wanny, but they were horrible at the end. You write you objected to Ginn before he was drafted until now. That's your prerogative, and your right. But I support all my teams draft picks, I can't help it. I still have hope for jason allen.

 

I never said I was against Ginn prior to the draft, like most everyone else on the planet, I was totally shocked when it happened. My point was, it's ridiculous to give a fan a hard time because he doesn't like a certain player. Last time I checked, it's an individuals right to have his own opinion...

 

I honestly thought ginn played well.

 

Sign me up on the dotted line.

 

Just like you seem to ignore the fact that Ginn was a huge piece to getting us even in a position to win the game. 6 third down catches? And a fourth and ten catch? You don't do that by being lucky and being in the right place at the right time. You do that by running great routes and putting yourself in the right place at the right time.

 

Well then you obviously didn't see all my posts on the matter.I gave him his due as a "possession WR"......number one WR, playmaker?........not so much

 

I agree, for all his draft day status and the pick that he would have been picked (6-12 by some scouts), he has not proven his worthiness (an actual word)...

but..WR start to prove themselves normally in their 3rd year...

Can he or will he prove his worth???

As a # 1 WR, he needs to prove he can score TDs... that is the main job of a # 1 WR IMO...

Other WRs' even before they reach their 3rd year seem to show the knack for scoring TDs... even if they don't reach the 1,000 yds platteu...

and so far he has fallen really short in that respect...

 

That's a great point. I actually wanted Brady Quinn instead of Ted Ginn, Jr at #9, but I made peace with that a long time ago. I actually didn't hate drafting Ginn and he was one of my 5 or so I could live with there at the time. But the fact is that he WAS drafted there, and he will always feel that pressure as long as he is a Miami Dolphin, and why shouldn't we expect a Pro Bowl WR?

 

Well, I read the whole thread, but it all runs together after awhile. Most of the reason that you may view him as a possession receiver is our offensive scheme. I wouldn't be so quick too put that label on him. One of the main questions on Ginn coming out was his ability to make an impact on routes other than go's. So I think the fact that people are now calling him a possession receiver is a great thing, cause we all know he has the speed to beat people deep consistently. Just shows how far he has come, and if our offense suit his skill set better, I think we'd see a heck of a lot less posts questioning his ability.

People are making far too big of a deal out of this. It's a long season, give him a chance. Everyone makes a mistake every now and then. If this happens all season long, then I'll change my tune (actually I wouldn't cause Ginn would have over 1600 yards ), but it's week two and we probably have about 1000 posts debating this one drop. Why no threads calling out players who missed tackles? Players on D missed tackles many times, in my mind that is just as bad, except it happened way more times than Ginn had drops. Especially when our safeties strong suits' are supposed to tackling. Yes, the drop cost us a touchdown. Missed tackles cost us more. And don't say Ginn let the game slip through his hands, because the defense is just as guilty. We did have the lead with about 3:30 left. They choked. Hard.

Sorry to bring up the defense vs. Ginn argument, I know it's not what we're talking about, but I think it's relevant.

 

I think both should get some blame and be accountable.....and others as well

As far as Ginn......I just think his lack of physicality and willingness to take on contact will limit his ability to get in the end zone enough to ever be considered a number one WR...