and so will the Miami Dolphins... Because until this kid mans up, he is what he is.....so far, disappointing
It's a contact sport, things happen all the time in it, one cannot avoid the consequences of action through inaction out on the field.
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/story/1062950.html Tony blowing smoke on the bolded portion of the story and Ireland is exactly right, it is time for TG to start doing what he was drafted to do.
One of the better return men.....your popping jokes ....right?????? Real return men: http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d811470fd&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true Ginn isn't even in the top 15 in the NFL http://www.football.com/article/top_10_kick_returners.html Ginn was pulled because like being a receiver was/is mediocre.......anything else is just wishful thinking
Eh, the purpose of this thread is to highlight Ginn's ineffectiveness at returning kicks...last season...in 07 he was top 10, maybe top 7. Which brings up the point about what will happen this season? Will he stay on kick returns or will he just play WR? And the ST unit in general went from 24 to 30th in 08, not only must Ginn improve or be replaced, but the entire unit must improve or be replaced. I truly hope this doesn't become one of those situation were Bonamego is Sparano's guy and no matter how crappy the unit is they don't replace him.
he will fulfill the promise of his draft or parish too much contract for mediocre production let him do what he does best, as he develops into a WR that can be considered FranchiseQuality Run GinnJr Run! SpecialTeams is the ticket and the promise!
I truly hope this doesn't become one of those situation were Bonamego is Sparano's guy and no matter how crappy the unit is they don't replace him.[/QUOTE] I agree with you 100%. Please don't misinterpret my intent here. I love Tedd Ginn and don't wish anything bad on him. He's a dolphin and as long as he is, has my loyalty. It is hard to sit by and watch people act like he is all world or something when he is not....the stats don't lie. He is what he is .......stats say middle of the road. You cant dress up a Cadillac and make it a Rolls no matter what you do to it....it will always be a Cadillac. I am okay with that. Ginn has been replaced on kicks......that time is over. He had over 150 attempts and could only manage 22 yards from scrimmage on kick returns and 9 yards on punts. People want to use the excuse he had TD's called back.....okay --- 2 . Like this would now shoot him to the top of the league in return men. I believe if he doesn't step up this year at receiver he will be replaced there to. Mediocre's not gonna get it on this team. I hope something click's for Ginn and in a hurry. I don't want him to fail but I also recognize the writing that is starting to appear on the wall. I would also like to get a great vet in here to help him out. Maybe that's all he needs.
I am not opposed to giving him another try??? As long as if it goes the same as before we give someone else a shot
Ginn was totally a middle of the road WR last year, and even worse as a rookie (though I expected a rookie year like that). But he has shown consistent improvement and I see no reason why he isn't capable of developing into someone who can catch 80 for 1,200 in a season. However, middle of the road is not mediocre. At least not in the sense of how I use the word. Derek Hagan for example was mediocre in games. (Ginn was mediocre at returns last year though, if that is what you meant, I would agree) I think a vet would certainly have helped, but having someone like Penny should really be helping Ginn's game as much as anyone (in regards to everything except beating a jam) because it is forcing him to get better in his worst area (route-running). Had he been paired with Henne, sure his #'s might be a little better, and a few more TDs, but he wouldn't be a better player than he is right now. I think he is a dangerous returner, but there are a number of others who I would prefer back there for one reason or another.
Just to add on to what has been said, and what I should have said in my post. Ginn doesn't shy from contact any more than any other receiver in football minus the top 5% who have the ability to shed tackles. The difference is that those guys are usually your 6'3 and above strong powerful guys. Would I love one of those? Of course. Does every receiver need to be that? No. Ginn has shown me a LOT as a receiver. He has also shown me things he needs to work on. His route running was his main suspect, but he has a great ability to find the ball at its highest point and extend, disregarding his body and setting himself up for a hit. He's done it enough times on those quick curl routes for first downs to show me is isn't playing "scared". You know what tells me a lot about his character? I only remember him dropping one ball last season really, I'm sure he had a few but one just sticks out. The ball was slightly above his head and he kind of wanted to run before he caught it. The ball hit his hands and the offense went off the field. You know what Ginn was doing on the sideline? Holding a football in that spot, working on getting his hands on it securing it, seeing it correctly and making that catch. The kid CARES about his game. I have no doubt in my mind he is going to be a very good if not great player. Just to add one more thing, I was a Ginn hater when I first heard we were interested. I thought all of the things I've heard said in this thread, but do you know what I did? I watched some tapes of him in college, and it became obvious to me that people were making false comparisons to other "speedy" receivers that had recently come out, not even based upon his game. I bet a lot of his detractors (not all) but a lot, never even had watched him too much. They just said "Oh look another fast WR bound to fail".
I agree with you 100%. Please don't misinterpret my intent here. I love Tedd Ginn and don't wish anything bad on him. He's a dolphin and as long as he is, has my loyalty. It is hard to sit by and watch people act like he is all world or something when he is not....the stats don't lie. He is what he is .......stats say middle of the road. You cant dress up a Cadillac and make it a Rolls no matter what you do to it....it will always be a Cadillac. I am okay with that. Ginn has been replaced on kicks......that time is over. He had over 150 attempts and could only manage 22 yards from scrimmage on kick returns and 9 yards on punts. People want to use the excuse he had TD's called back.....okay --- 2 . Like this would now shoot him to the top of the league in return men. I believe if he doesn't step up this year at receiver he will be replaced there to. Mediocre's not gonna get it on this team. I hope something click's for Ginn and in a hurry. I don't want him to fail but I also recognize the writing that is starting to appear on the wall. I would also like to get a great vet in here to help him out. Maybe that's all he needs.[/QUOTE] If you are talking about receiving stats you are wrong. He fares very well when compared to elite receivers in their second year. Your bias is obvious.
Hmm...I seem to recall it being three TD returns called back in 07? And he was a pro bowl alternate as a returner in 07. In 08 he underperformed (as has been shown earlier in the thread) however the entire ST unit performed terribly. There are reasons why the Bears placed two men on that top 15 list 2 Socks, it can be done in Miami if Sparano allows it to happen. I think this is Ginn's year to prove what he is, in 07 he was a great Kr and poor Wr, in 08 he was a poor Kr and a decent Wr. The difference between homerism and expectation is track record, Ginn has been "good" as a Wr and Returner, but he hasn't done both at the same time, if Ginn is ever going to be great he has to do both at a high level otherwise his value to us is very limited. Ginn ideally is an all around threat every time he touches the ball, the reaility is Ginn has been limited imho by his slow development, he did come out of OSU as a Junior and he missed most of mini camp and training camp 07 with a liz francs sprain ******ing his development further. and having Cleo Lemon and John Beck chucking the rock didn't help.
They were middle of the road in general, but if comparing to other 2nd year WRs, they are indeed quite favorable.
Or he could just be "great" at WR, and be extremely valuable that way. Roddy White only plays on offense, you think the Falcons think his value to that team is limited?
And they were ejected from the playoffs in the first round the same as we were. And their KR, Norwood is one of the best in the NFL, in fact our old ST coach Steve Armstrong is running herd in Atlanta and their ST unit was one of the best in the NFL last season..in a single year. If we are to take the next step upwards, Ginn has to produce more, it would be better if he returned kicks in his 07 form as well as blossomed as a Wr and became one of our leaders on offense. Or we will face that 4 game slippage in the loss column.
Using your logic, every team is disappointed in their WR's. I don't think anyone is calling him elite brother, but he's progressing at a normal clip for WR's in the NFL. Take a look at Steve Smith's first 3 years in the league and compare them to what Ginn has done, it's very similar. If he can continue to build upon last year, he could end up being a legit #1, not an elite #1 like a Moss, Fitzgerald, etc, but he has the potential to be better than Chambers IMO (sorry Travis). I also don't think you can judge him fully until we have a QB that can take advantage of Ginn's ablity, he's a bit of a square peg in this offense. Nah, it was more than two. Remember that our ST's play was absolute **** in '07, we could have had Hester that year and still wouldn't have seen much of an improvement. Last year they took him off of PR duty (where most of the flashy numbers come from) to focus on his play at WR, which is understandble. I think if we had someone who was a bonafide #1 WR, Ginn would still be in there returning kicks. Could be, but I also think he needs a QB who will allow him to utilize his speed. Like I mentioned above, so far Ginn's career has kind of mirrored that of Steve Smith, that isn't a bad player to be compared to. I forget who it was in Club that mentioned the improvement, but Ginn improved something like 65% from his rookie year statwise, that's definitely a positive step in the right direction and not worthy of being on the hotseat in my opinion. Very few WR's come in and dominate right away, sometimes it takes a couple of years for them to hit their stride.
Any team that finds itself in our situation would be disappointed. He was a big investment and for us to still be looking for a #1 WR right now is very disappointing. It's not like he's been terrible.....it's just that we don't have use for him as the #2 WR, we have a bunch of those. This year is likely make or break for Ginn.. JS
Everything said/written this entire offseason has had Ginn as our #1 the entire time. So how are we looking for a #1? It's the only WR spot that hasn't been fluctuating.
One MORE thing to add. Ginn does more than stats show. He's the only receiver on our team who's speed requires a safety to have over the top coverage a good portion of downs. This creates room in the middle of the field for other players, and can even help the running game.
But he's yet to fill the bill.....not saying he isn't being given his shot at filling the role. But he is no way a lock to hold onto it. If anything he currently has the spot by default. His play this year will likely decide if the Fins pursue his replacement and get a new candidate to audition for the role..
The problem with this line of reasoning is that you can't find many young WR's who put up amazing stats right off the bat. He's doing what other players who are currently great, did in their first few years. Coming out we knew he had things to work on, and he's gotten a lot better in his first two years here. As long as he keeps getting better he will be fine.
From page #1 of this thread: It would be a sacrifice, but if the dolphins want better ST play, Chris Williams may be that luxury replacement for Ted Gin jr... What is really cool, thephins.com collective intelligence could see C Williams coming from a mile away, when a returner has the kicker face masking him because he is eating the coverage unit alive... The boy has skills.
Disagree BK...Williams has to show he can produce at least better than the #5 Wr...30 ypa is no small thing..
Ted Ginn is the most lethal weapon that the Dolphins have and he was all over the field tonight. Hopefully this will continue into the Regular season
