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Ted Ginn...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by resnor, Nov 30, 2008.

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  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So, in the game thread today, there was a bit of discussion surrounding Ginn, and the drop. I made the case that people are jumping all over him a little too much, and got the, "He was drafted NINTH OVERALL!!!" argument. So, I'm watching the Pats game, and whaddya know, I've watched Moss drop two passes already, that hit him right in his hands...one of them would have been a TD. Point is, like I made in that thread, every receiver is going to drop balls that they should have caught. It's not the end of the world, and it doesn't mean that someone is or isn't a good receiver.

    Sometimes I think that Phins fans expect our players to be perfect...and we forget that they are human after all. Let's try not to get too wound up when Ginn, or Bess, or any of our guys, drops a pass, or makes the wrong read.

    Discuss.
     
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  2. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Ginn was playing in a dome and Moss is playing in really crappy weather.

    /endthread
     
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  3. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    They should be perfect dammit. They're dolphins!

    Yeah WRers are going to drop balls. As they say winning cures everything.
     
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  4. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    But not anal gaps :up:
     
  5. The Dude

    The Dude Anti Jet

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    Yeah alot of people expect some players to be perfect. Every game every down. Players are not machines.
     
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  6. ascii

    ascii People Watcher

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    Moss was the 21st pick. He's allowed to drop 2. :tongue2:


    Seriously, I'm with many others, for a top ten pick he's been a disappointment. While he's shown flashes of improvement, he's terribly inconsistent. Then again, so is this team.
     
  7. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Ginn is a 2nd year player, Moss is a veteran.

    Comparing Moss and Ginn is beyond idiotic.

    /endthread
     
  8. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    How do you know Patriot fans are'nt getting on Randy Moss
     
  9. The Dude

    The Dude Anti Jet

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    So your telling me if Ginn would of dropped an easy TD in rain everyone would get off his case? I think not.
     
  10. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    of course

    but thats beside the point

    every WR should catch catchable passes. No excuses.
     
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  11. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Too bad every WR drops catchable passes...

    If we went off that type of thinking, there would be no WRs in the NFL... :wink2:
     
  12. The Dude

    The Dude Anti Jet

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    "Moss is playing in really crappy weather"


    No excuses huh...
     
  13. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    shush! Moss is the greatest WR in the game. How dare God punish Moss by making bad weather at Foxboro?
     
  14. Straz

    Straz Me and my girl :)

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    Because Randy Moss is their man.
     
  15. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    Ted Ginn Jr should not drop any passes nor should any wide reciver that is what you are getting paid to do. I know you are human and you are going to make mistakes but still. Ted Ginn Jr. does not have any room to make any mistakes because he is inconsistant as it is already. For the 9th overall pick he has shown flashes of being really good but has also shown flashes of not even looking like a 3rd string reciver.
     
  16. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    You'd be surprised at how much I cure.
     
  17. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    I am not quite shore what you mean by there man but if you mean he is there number 1 wide reciver well Ted Ginn jr is our man to in that way
     
  18. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The issue with Ginn dropping that pass this afternoon was it was a 3rd down situation needed to convert. It was right in his hands, he has to catch the pass. The problem is he's been dropping easy passes consistantly as of late (he dropped 2 or 3 last weekend as well). I dont care where he was drafted, thats irrelevant to me. He needs to make those plays, and do a better job of focusing.

    Its a play we needed him to make, and he didnt make it. its as simple as that. Players are always going to be criticized when stuff like that happens.

    He's young... he better grow out of it thats for sure.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I've got no problem with people being disappointed when a player drops a pass. I just think that people have silly thoughts about our receivers. From what I've seen, when Ginn drops balls, it's usually because he's trying to figure out where he's going to go with it...so, basically, in trying to make a play, he blows a play. As he matures, I think that will go away.

    As to Moss, and the rain, the balls he dropped weren't because of the rain. Other guys are catching the ball...Moss just dropped two balls that were easy catches, even with the rain. Point is was, not to compare Ginn to Moss, but to show that even the greats drop balls that they should have caught...and I daresay not ONE Patriot fan was acting like Moss should be cut after dropping those passes, like some of the fans on here.
     
  20. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    Every WR goes through periods when they drop balls. What I have noticed is that he seems to have what I call "Derrius Thompson" disease. The old Dolphin WR would leave his feet on almost every pass thrown to him...like he had to cradle every pass. Ginn leaves his feet alot on passes thrown right tohim when it does not seem neccasary
     
  21. finsmx

    finsmx Senior Member

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    THIS!

    It also happens to the best, give it a rest.
     
  22. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thats what im hoping. Sometimes though, it almost seems as if he's hearing too many footsteps as well though, not wanting to take a hit. Which of course, is a smart idea, why get rocked if you dont have to, but still, theres times when you just have to stand in there and make the catch, and take the hit, and hold on. Thats the game.

    No doubt ginn can catch and will be a good receiver. Like you, i think its simply a lack of focus at this point and its something that i think as he matures, will go away... i hope.
     
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I do believe it's just trying to make a play. I don't think he's that worried about hits, I mean, we've seen him go right at defenders when he has the ball.
     
  24. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dan Marino is one of the worst Qbs ever because he never went a season without throwing an INT.

    Missed tackles.

    Fumbles.

    Show me player who doesn't make mistakes, from easy dropped passes to missed assignments etc.

    You guys would rather have Dwayne Bowe right? He of 11 drops?
    Some damn good names on this list:

    iWon - NFL League Stats
     
  25. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the original poster. One drop and a fumble that didnt cost us anything shouldnt be held against him the way we're holding it against him. He's doing a fine job, i just think he needs to find the endzone a bit more.
     
  26. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    Um I don't think there has ever been a QB who has gone a whole season without throwing an interception.
     
  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Every QB throws interceptions...that's his point. You don't get all down on a QB cuz he throws a pick. Every receiver drops balls. Do I have to explain further? LOL. Seriously, look how many balls TO drops...but, he's still one of the best receivers in the game.
     
  28. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    yup, no good receiver has ever dropped a ball in a dome.


    :rolleyes:
     
  29. New Era

    New Era Waterboy

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    B. Edwards was wanted by a TON of Dolphin fans. He drops more balls than virgins on prom night.

    So...Teddy dropped a ball. Well we should cut off a part of his ear as an example. How dare he drop a ball that could have gotten a first down.

    Oh...wait, ALL WR's drop balls during the season. Tell Teddy good game and he can keep all of his ear.
     
  30. Crappy Tipper

    Crappy Tipper AKA Hero13

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    Perfectly said.

    This fumble didn't cost anything but I know of at least 2 others this season he's fumbled out of bounds and that one drop killed a drive in a tight game. Last week his drop was also on a 3rd down which killed a late drive.

    We need to get over the "it didn't hurt us" philosophy because eventually those plays are going to lose a game.

    Drops happen no doubt but a clutch receiver makes the 3rd down receptions.

    And for anybody that is saying that he's planning his move after the catch - I don't buy it - the guy has never shown me much after the catch if he's starting from a stop.

    I used to be a big Ginn homer but he just isn't and shouldn't be considered a #1 unless he elevates his game something huge.
     
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  31. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    The problem with Ginn isn't the fact that he's not playing like Moss or TO, it's that people are trying to compare him to Moss and TO....in only his second year.

    It generally takes a WR 3 years to fully mature and develop, last year Ginn was worked into the offense slowly with a group of QB's that went from bad to worse. The team itself was going through it's share of losses, which in turn had an impact on the offense. The OL was playing poorly, which gave the QB's less time for the plays to develop and the passing game (as well as the rushing game) struggled as a result. IMO not much should be read into Ginn's rookie year, there was too much going wrong last year to really get a good idea of what he was capable of.

    This year is a bit different, the offense is much improved and Ginn is playing a more prominent role, but his talent isn't being utilized properly. His game is speed, he can use that speed to beat his man and get open downfield and spread the defense, but because of Penny's limitations and the conservative passing game, Ginn isn't really able to play "his game". He has done pretty well this year in this offense and has made some big plays, but like any other player in the NFL he's going to make mistakes. I wouldn't read too much into a dropped ball and revisit the "Ginn is a bust" argument from last year, it's silly IMO to over-analyze a mistake and expect perfection from a 2nd year WR.

    Is he Moss? No. Is he going to be as good as TO? Who knows? Just be happy with what we have and let the kid develop his game and then you can jump on him if at the end of his first three years he still hasn't lived up to his #9 selection. Right now he's playing with a QB who doesn't have the arm to take advantage of his speed, his fellow WR's are average at best or injured, Ginn really isn't in a position to light it up every week like he did against Buffalo. He isn't playing on a team like Dallas or NE that has a great surrounding cast, this is a team in transition and we still have a long way to go.

    Give him time, as the team continues the rebuilding process (this is only year 1) and Ginn continues to develop, I have a feeling that all of the negative talk surrounding him will disappear and people will be pleasantly surprised. Instead of expecting giant leaps of greatness, just find hope in the baby steps that we are seeing. Drops are going to happen, they happen to the best of 'em, lets not knock the kid over every little mistake. :up:
     
  32. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

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    Great post Brother!:up:
     
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  33. hugoguzman

    hugoguzman New Member

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    Thanks for providing some tangible evidence.

    While it's true that Ginn has had a case of the dropsies in the last two games, he has certainly progressed from year one to year two, and I expect to see even more progression in year three.

    That said, if after three seasons, he's still putting up "just another guy" numbers, his days in a Dolphins uniform could come to a premature end.

    For those scoring at home, here are Ginn's numbers through 12 games as well as projections for the full season:
    47 receptions
    651 receiving yards
    1 receiving touchdown
    3 rushing attempts
    44 rushing yards
    1 rushing touchdown
    5 fumbles

    Projected 2008 Stats
    63 receptions
    868 yards
    1 receiving touchdown
    59 rushing yards
    1 rushing touchdown
    7 fumbles
     
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  34. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    absolutely perfect post...nice job :up:

    I think Ginn is having a pretty good season. Everyone is going to make mistakes, and the young ones will make more. He's still getting good separation, which a lot of people thought he could never do consistently.
     
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  35. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    So I suppose your snarky response should be geared towards the original poster then eh?

    Here is the point. Randy Moss has DONE somethig in this league. He has proven himself to be one of the best wideouts in the HISTORY of the game.

    Ted Ginn, has not. For him to do so, would require him to catch balls that I could have caught. He also got bailed out by a ref who gave him a catch and a fumble out of bounds as opposed to an incomplete pass.

    In the gameday thread, the argument was centered around Ginn gett ribbed for dropping a pass while Bess was not.

    Again, it is quite simple.

    Ginn was the ninth overall pick in the draft. A reach by just about everyone who follows this kind of stuff.

    Davone Bess is an undrafted free agent. Thus, the expectations for him are not as high as they are for Ginn. Should they have both caught the balls they dropped? Absolutely. Does it sting more when your supposed no. 1 drops them? Absolutely.

    Actually, right here and now, I would venture to say that Davone Bess is a better RECEIVER than Ted Ginn is. Keyword is receiver. He runs better routes, has better hands and knows how to get open on a more consistant basis. If he was taller, or had gone to a bigger school, I think he would have been drafted fairly high actually.
     
  36. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    You guys are all missing the point, Moss didnt drop those balls because he is human and prone to an error here and there. Moss dropped those balls because the Steeler respected him.

    Why should he have to catch the ball when he is not getting disrespected?

    :hi5:
     
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  37. Crappy Tipper

    Crappy Tipper AKA Hero13

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    I don't think he should even be mentioned in the same breath with the top five receivers in the league.

    I only ask he do three things

    1 - catch balls that hit your hands
    2 - If you are running a route to pick up a 3rd and 5 don't squat 4 yards out.
    3 - If you catch the ball don't fumble it.

    Even if he stops at five fumbles that's an insane number for a wide receiver who has only touched the ball 47 times that would be like a running back fumbling every 9 carries and he isn't going through the meat of the defense (front seven) he's typically getting tackled by a DB or two.

    He should become the league leader in fumbles by a receiver after today's game.

    Ricky is second on the team with 1 fumble every 40 touches.

    Ginn needs to protect that football from hitting the ground.
     
  38. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Pretty sure Bess wasn't drafted because of his poor numbers in the 40 and what not... I believe he ran somewhere between a 4.7-4.8 and that killed his stock.

    You're right, people have high expectations of Ted Ginn Jr... I realize this, but my question is... What's the point? He was drafted 9th overall because he was a good kick returner and receiver... If he were just a good receiver, he probably would have been a 2nd round pick, possibly late 1st round pick.

    I think people set unrealistic expectations for our players, but what do I know...
     
  39. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The bold part only makes sense if true elite receivers never drop balls. You cite Randy Moss. Do we forgive him for the alligator arms he developed in Oakland????? Giving up on plays? To me that is a cardinal sin, to drop a ball because of lack of desire. In that case Randy is one of the worst receivers ever. He'll never be the best in my eyes because of that. Ginn drops some catchable balls, yes. Every receiver does. Everybody makes mistakes. His are amplified because he's a dolphin. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne. They drop passes all the time. Elite WRs drop passes, more so than Ginn.

    You are entitled to your opinion that Bess is a better WR. Let's play a mental excercise. Take Ginn out of the Lineup, make Bess the #1 option. See how well he does.
     
  40. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    See, I have never been one to think Ginn was or is a number one receiver, so subbing Bess for Ginn would be fine with me. Don't get me wrong, I WANT Ginn to succeed. I WANT him to be an elite wideout in this league. He simply has not done anything yet to prove to me he is or can be.

    I think Bess can run more routes than Ginn right now and I think he has better hands. Ginn is faster and more of a deep threat, but what good does that do us if he is never used in that scenario? Our offense is short to mid range passes which means our receivers need to be able to find the gaps in the defense and catch the ball.

    Ginn can't seem to do that on anything other than those 10 yard in routes (which they should be utilizing even more imo).

    You cite Randy Moss's alligator arms. Yes, he has/had those. So has T.O. for that matter. Heck, I can cite times where Jerry Rice pulled up in fear of getting nailed on a slant route. Everyone does it.

    However, the point is, Randy, T.O., and Jerry Rice (as well as every great receiver) has proven something on the field. By the time Randy got to Oakland, he was already destined for Canton. The guy is simply the best wideout in the game and he showed us why last week. The guy makes catches that no one else will and when he decides to play, no one can guar dhim one on one.

    Now, is he the ideal football player? No, not really. He does take plays off, and the stories I have first hand knowledge about during his time in Oakland leave a ton to be desired on the character side of things. But he is probably the best RECEIVER in football right now. Ginn isn't anywhere near him, or any other top receiver for that matter. And he won't be if he continues to fumble the balls away that he does catch.

    But I want to be clear about this. I root for Ted Ginn. I WANT him to succeed. I want to have a dynamic passing offense and a go to receiver that our QB can rely on in the clutch when he needs to. I hope Ginn can be that guy.

    However, he looks more like Alvin Harper to me, as opposed to Michael Irvin.
     

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