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The 2010/2011 MLB Offseason Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Ray Finkle, Nov 3, 2010.

  1. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you can absolutely compare the level of talent brought in and money spent on acquisition.

    That’s the point!

    You have a shot if the Heat team plane crashes. :hi5:
     
  2. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    Oh you got me there....can you tell me how many rings he brought to the yankees??
     
  3. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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  4. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Especially pitching in the AL East.

    That's a joke right? Mussina had a pretty successful Yankee career. You don't measure how good a player is or isn't based in rings.
     
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  5. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    Really? seems to me people judge Marino that way; seems to me that lebron is being viewed that way, we could even throw Mattingly into the mix there. Mussina was awesome; loved his grit and his guts and yes he was a successful yankee, but he was not on a successful team. Still besides the point; every big name pitcher the yankees have signed in the last 10 yrs, besides C.C. and Mussina hasnt been a success and in most cases it was a disaster. I'll point to Kevin Brown; Carl Pavano and literally Cory Lidle.
     
  6. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Baseball is different than basketball and football though. In those sports, right or wrong, players do get judged about the number of rings because in those sports 1 great player can change a game/team (especially the QB). I don't hear anyone knocking Mattingly about never winning a WS, it's not his fault he was on crappy teams until 1995. You don't hear anyone say Ted Williams wasn't great because he never won a WS. Just like you don't hear how great Ramiro Mendoza is because he won 5 of them.

    And Mike Mussina was on a team that was 3 outs away from winning a WS in 2001, his team was in the WS in 2003, was 3 outs away from making another WS in 2004 and his teams made the playoffs in every year but 1 (2008 where he had a great season at age 40). How can you say he hasn't been on successful teams? The Yankees from 2001 to 2008 averaged what 95 or 96 wins (rough math could be off a game or two) per season, that's not successful?

    And yes I agree the track record for pitchers the Yankees signed or traded for outside of Sabathia, Mussina, Pettitte, and Wells in the last 10 years hasn't been good overall.
     
  7. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    :wave:player, coach, manager....he is Captain Jinx....! Once gone a franchise has a chance:lol::lol::lol:

    Also, to be very fair, as far as last 10 years (with FA starting pitchers paying off for Yanks contracts)...thus including the year 2000 and those contracts up till 2000 you have to toss in David Cone, Dwight Gooden, Orlando Hernandez, and Roger Clemens as all FA signings that paid dividends.

    If you toss in Relief arms....Jeff Nelson, Mike Stanton, and Jason Grimsley too.

    As far as Mussina, he never had a chance once Donny Baseball came back to the org via coaching tree. LOL....I kid, I kid, but it is so sad its funny regarding Donnie Baseball Legacy.
     
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  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Besides, Donnie Baseball played on Yankees teams that finished 2nd 3 or 4 yrs in a row, the AL East was tougher in the mid 80's.
     
  9. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    he was always a couple of outs away from throwing a perfect game, until it was broken up by a guy who didnt believe in dinosaurs...
     
  10. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    you are right how silly of me...I will lump him in there with Marino, Moss, Iverson, Fisk, Griffrey, Ewing, Ovechkin, Nowitzki, Barkley, Bonds, Jim Kelly, Bron, Barry Sanders, Ty Cobb, Ernie Banks, Malone/Stockon, Butkus, Elgn Baylor...and certainly many more, that fail to pop into my head at the moment...

    I mean really with your arguement??
     
  11. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    Sounds like there are other teams interested in taking Blanton off the Phillies' hands besides the Red Sox. The Phillies will probably have Kendrick/Worley as their #5....they are even rumors they could bring back Pedro Martinez later on, although I don't see them going in this direction.

    Question: How much did Cliff Lee leave really leave on the table by coming back to the Phillies?

    Answer: The Associated Press reports that Lee has a $120 million, 5-year contract. His year-by-year numbers, according to the AP, are $11 million next season, $21.5 million in 2012 and $25 million in each of the following three seasons. He has an option for 2016 for $27.5 million, with a $12.5 million buyout. For the option to be guaranteed, the AP said, he must pitch 200 innings in 2015 or 400 innings combined in 2014 and 2015, and cannot finish the '15 season on the disabled list with a left shoulder or elbow injury.

    The offers from other teams are guesstimates. One report had the Yankees guaranteeing $138 million for 6 years. That's an average annual value of $23 million, compared with $24 million from the Phillies.

    And even if the Yankees actually offered more, by the time you figure that taxes will eat up a lot of the difference, it's probably not worth playing somewhere where you won't be as happy as you'd be somewhere else. Besides, believe this: Lee wasn't going to New York. Stories about his wife not wanting to live there were dead on.

    Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...lies__signing_of_Cliff_Lee.html#ixzz18D0Emb1b
     
  12. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I've heard Philly would have to eat at least half of Blanton's salary in order to move him but I'm sure he has a market. He's an innings eater (and also enjoys eating a lot of food too).

    Actually about the Lee contract, if his option for the 6th year vests (which should as long as he stays healthy) he really isn't leaving much money on the table from NY or Texas. But hey I'm glad he's in the NL.
     
  13. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hmm as an aside, I joined the padres forum on MLB.com, and used Ray F's argument about small market teams not using their luxury tax revenues to sign talent, and also pointed out that Forbes had the Padres cash flow at 197 million with a payroll of 40 million or less.

    Basically, their payroll is covered by Gate Receipts and Luxury Tax revenues, meaning the TV contract money is disappearing "somewhere".

    3 threads have been pulled already.

    Apparently MLB.com does not like the ugly truth to be told vis a vis small market clubs ownership pocketing monies whilst crying poor, only this time the money is going to pay prior ownership for the purchase cost of the franchise.
     
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  15. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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  16. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Hear this this morning that I thought was extremely interesting with all the RPers signing multi-year deals: since 2006 the list of FA RPs who have signed 3 year deals or more, only 1 of them has been worth the money and that pitcher isn't even human. So buyer beware (and yes I have no reason to believe that any of the recent RPer signings will end up working out badly for the teams).
     
  17. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    The Yankees have agreed to sign Pedro Feliciano, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (on Twitter). MDR Sports represents the left-hander.
     
  18. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    2yrs 8M for LOOGY
     
  19. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Wow word is Zack Greinke is headed to the Brewers. No word on the players coming to KC but OFer Lorenzo Cain, SS Alcides Escobar and RHP Jeremy Jeffress are 3 of the 6 names that are popping up, P Jake Odorizzi is also rumored in the deal as is Yuneski Betancourt going to MIL.

    That certainly happened fast and out of nowhere. Suddenly the Brewers with Greinke, Gallardo and Marcum have a pretty solid staff.
     
  20. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Greinke will join Gallardo, Marcum, and Ranky Wolf to give Milwaukee the type of front four that can go toe-to-toe with the Cardinals from Day One in the NL Central.

    Wolf gets overlooked.....but in NL....that is a solid front 4. Plus Brewers get Greinke, Yuniesky Betancourt and $2 million cash.

    Some will say that the Royals didn’t get enough here and perhaps that is true, but they were able to acquire a shortstop and a center fielder, two pieces they didn’t have in their impressive minor league pipeline. Its unsure if Jefferies is part of the deal....or if its PTBNL.

    And KC's minor's are stocked in many other spots that can aide quickly
     
  21. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    That's a terrible terrible trade. Silly Drayton Moore.
     
  22. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    I can not totally agree....it has merit

    Here are the full details of the trade. According to Jon Heyman of SI.com, the Brewers will receive Zack Greinke, Yuniesky Betancourt and $2 million to cover Betancourt’s salary from the Royals for Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi and a player to be named later. The trade will be officially announced later today.

    I would like it more if Jefferies was in the deal.

    Edit:
    Confirmed: Jeremy Jeffress is the player to named in the Greinke deal

    I do like it from KC side...they did ok.
     
  23. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Until you realize Moore added both Melky AND Francoeur. This Royal team is going to be a juggernaut in 2011. What's the over/under on losses for them? 105? Or is that number too low?
     
  24. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    According to Jon Heyman, the Royals asked the Yankees for Jesus Montero and Eduardo Nunez for Zack Greinke but the Yankees said no. If that's true and even with Greinke's SAD I'm not sure how you can say no to it. Again though it is a tricky situation as no one know's what Greinke's current condition is and if it was blown up by the media, etc. While Montero is obviously legit, Nunez has to be one of the most overrated prospects this winter all because the Yankees floated his name out there as a possible Derek Jeter replacement in case Jeter didn't sign. Nunez is basically an upgraded verison of Ramiro Pena. In July, when the Yankees and Seattle had an agreement in place to trade Cliff Lee and David Adams failed his physical, Seattle asked for Nunez and Cashman said no, leading to the Texas trade. I guess Cashman and his team sees something different in Nunez than the majority does.
     
  25. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Reports: Ricky Nolasco OKs extension


     
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  26. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/offseason-spending-details-by-team.html

    Here are the details on each team's spending so far this winter:

    1. Boston Red Sox - $172MM ($142MM contract for Carl Crawford, $12.5MM option for David Ortiz, $12MM contract for Bobby Jenks, $3MM contract for Dan Wheeler, $2MM contract for Jason Varitek, $455K option for Scott Atchison)
    2. Washington Nationals - $128.5MM ($126MM contract for Jayson Werth, $1.5MM contract for Rick Ankiel, $1MM contract for Chien-Ming Wang)
    3. Philadelphia Phillies - $125.5MM ($120MM contract for Cliff Lee, $5.5MM contract for Jose Contreras)
    4. Chicago White Sox - $120.25MM ($56MM contract for Adam Dunn, $37.5MM contract for Paul Konerko, $13MM contract for Jesse Crain, $8MM contract for A.J. Pierzynski, $3MM option for Matt Thornton, $1.75MM extension for Omar Vizquel, $1MM option for Ramon Castro)
    5. Detroit Tigers - $99.25MM ($50MM contract for Victor Martinez, $16.5MM contract for Joaquin Benoit, $11.5MM extension for Brandon Inge, $11.25MM contract for Jhonny Peralta, $10MM contract for Magglio Ordonez)
    6. New York Yankees - $93MM ($51MM contract for Derek Jeter, $30MM contract for Mariano Rivera, $8MM contract for Pedro Feliciano, $4MM contract for Russell Martin)
    7. Los Angeles Dodgers - $90.18MM ($33MM extension for Ted Lilly, $21MM contract for Juan Uribe, $12MM contract for Hiroki Kuroda, $12MM contract for Matt Guerrier, $5MM contract for Jon Garland, $3.5MM contract for Rod Barajas, $2MM contract for Vicente Padilla, $1MM contract for Dioner Navarro, $680K contract for Tony Gwynn)
    8. St. Louis Cardinals - $42.35MM ($16.5MM contract for Jake Westbrook, $16MM option for Albert Pujols, $8MM contract for Lance Berkman, $1.1MM contract for Gerald Laird, $750K contract for Brian Tallet)
    9. Cincinnati Reds - $41.75MM ($35MM extension for Bronson Arroyo, $3MM contract for Ramon Hernandez, $2MM contract for Miguel Cairo, $1.75MM option for Jonny Gomes)
    10. Colorado Rockies - $40MM ($32MM contract for Jorge de la Rosa, $8MM contract for Ty Wigginton)
    11. San Francisco Giants - $29.5MM ($22MM contract for Aubrey Huff, $6.5MM contract for Miguel Tejada, $1MM contract for Pat Burrell)
    12. Florida Marlins - $27.5MM ($18MM contract for John Buck, $7MM contract for Javier Vazquez, $2.5MM contract for Randy Choate)
    13. Chicago Cubs - $26.1MM ($14.6MM option for Aramis Ramirez, $10MM contract for Carlos Pena, $1.5MM contract for Kerry Wood)
    14. Los Angeles Angels - $23MM ($15MM contract for Scott Downs, $8MM contract for Hisanori Takahashi)
    15. Minnesota Twins - $19.55MM ($9MM contract plus $5.3MM bid for Tsuyoshi Nishioka, $5.25MM option for Jason Kubel)
    16. Oakland A’s - $18.5MM ($6MM option for Mark Ellis, $5.75MM option for Coco Crisp $4.25MM contract for Hideki Matsui, $1.5MM contract for Rich Harden, $1MM contract for Brandon McCarthy)
    17. Pittsburgh Pirates - $17.75MM ($8MM contract for Kevin Correia, $5MM contract for Lyle Overbay, $4.25MM contract for Matt Diaz, $500K contract for Scott Olsen)
    18. Arizona Diamondbacks - $17.45MM ($10MM contract for J.J. Putz, $2.7MM contract for Geoff Blum, $2MM contract for Melvin Mora, $1.75MM contract for Xavier Nady, $1MM contract for Henry Blanco)
    19. San Diego Padres - $16.4MM ($11.5MM contract for Orlando Hudson, $4MM contract for Aaron Harang, $900K contract for Dustin Moseley)
    20. New York Mets - $14.8MM ($11MM option for Jose Reyes, $2.5MM contract for D.J. Carrasco, $1.3MM contract for Ronny Paulino)
    21. Seattle Mariners - $10.5MM ($7MM contract for Miguel Olivo, $2.5MM contract for Jack Cust, $1MM contract for Erik Bedard)
    22. Texas Rangers - $7.1MM ($6.25MM contract for Yorvit Torrealba, $850K contract for Matt Treanor)
    23. Baltimore Orioles - $5.58MM ($3MM contract for Koji Uehara, $1.5MM contract for Cesar Izturis, $1.08MM contract for Jeremy Accardo)
    24. Atlanta Braves - $5.15MM ($2.5MM option for Alex Gonzalez, $1.45MM contract for Eric Hinske, $1.2MM contract for George Sherrill)
    25. Houston Astros - $4.625MM ($3MM contract for Bill Hall, $900K option for Jason Michaels, $725K contract for Ryan Rowland-Smith)
    26. Kansas City Royals - $3.75MM ($2.5MM contract for Jeff Francoeur, $1.25MM contract for Melky Cabrera)
    27. Toronto Blue Jays - $3.5MM ($2.5MM contract for Edwin Encarnacion, $1MM option for Jose Molina)
    28. Milwaukee Brewers - $2.18MM ($1.4MM contract for Craig Counsell, $780K contract for Wil Nieves)
    29. Tampa Bay Rays - $2MM ($1.1MM contract for J.P. Howell, $900K contract for Joel Peralta)
    30. Cleveland Indians - $1.3MM ($1.3MM contract for Austin Kearns)

    *Totals based on free agent contracts, extensions signed by players on the brink or free agency, options exercised this offseason and one international signing. Minor league deals are excluded.

    Vizquel, Inge and Lilly signed extensions on the brink of free agency; their extensions count above, as does Arroyo's deal with the Reds. Troy Tulowitzki, Jay Bruce and Ricky Nolasco signed extensions long before free agency and their extensions don’t count here. The Twins’ bid for and contract with Nishioka count. All options exercised this offseason count except the options for Adrian Gonzalez, Omar Infante and David DeJesus. Those three players were traded after their teams picked up their options. Some teams, like the Brewers, have added payroll by trading for players, but those acquisitions do not show up here.

    Using different cutoffs, Maury Brown of the Biz of Baseball recently calculated that total payroll allocation for free agents is now over $1 billion this offseason.
     
  27. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Here's the spending by division:

    • NL East: $60.29MM average ($301.45MM total)
    • AL East: $55.22MM average ($276.08MM total)
    • AL Central: $48.82MM average ($244.1MM total)
    • NL West: $38.71MM average ($193.53 total)
    • NL Central: $22.46MM average ($134.76MM total)
    • AL West: $14.78MM average ($59.1MM total)
    Complete details and explanation available here. This list will undoubtedly change by the time the offseason ends, and is simply intended to show which divisions have been most aggressive so far.
     
  28. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Wow this thread has been dead for almost 2 weeks, although not much as happened in that time frame except Alfredo Simon's New Year's Eve Party.

    Anyway Texas has signed Adrian Beltre for a deal rumored to be 6 years 96 million, although other reports say it's a 5 year deal with the 6th year vesting option if he reaches enough plate appearances. Either way as great as Beltre was last year I'm thankful the Sox didn't make that deal. It's a lot of money for a great fielder but has only had 2 great seasons at the plate, both in walk years. It's good for the Red Sox too because now they get Texas' 1st round pick (unless the Rangers also sign Soriano) so the Sox will get at least 4 picks in the draft before the 2nd round.

    And can someone explain to me what the heck the Angels are doing? Well besides nothing unless you count signing Scott Downs and Takahashi long term. They have to be the biggest losers of the off season so far.
     
  29. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Yeah, all quiet on the Western Front lately.......but starting my Fantasy Draft prep......

    side note: Roberto Alomar and Bert Blyleven voted in to HoF. Join Pat Gillick this summer.

    Just short of the 75% needed: Barry Larkin with 62.1% and Jack Morris with 53.5%.
     
  30. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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  31. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Word going around is that Matt Garza has been traded to the Chicago Cubs. I'm trying to see who the Rays are getting back.

    According to Bruce Levine of ESPN Chicago, the Cubs and Rays have agreed to an eight-player trade involving right-hander Matt Garza.

    Here's how Levine has the trade going down: The Rays will get top pitching prospect Chris Archer, outfielder Brandon Guyer, catcher Robinson Chirinos, shortstop Hak-Ju Lee and outfielder Sam Fuld from Chicago and the Cubs will get a minor-league pitcher and a minor-league outfielder along with Garza. The 27-year-old righty registered a strong 3.91 ERA and 1.25 WHIP last season for the Rays. He would immediately become the Cubs' No. 2 starter.


    Looks like the Rays got more for Matt Garza than the Royals got for Grienke. I'm glad Garza is out of the AL East but the Rays are getting back some talent.
     
  32. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Wow, 8 players with only two teams involved.....hardly ever happens any more. (LOL, video games dont even let you trade more than 3 for 1...LOL)
     
  33. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Especially since it looks like right now the Cubs are only getting 1 player back (of course that could change when we get the official word). It's clearly a panic move by the Cubs and their GM, who's on the hot seat right now so who cares if he mortgages the future since if they don't make the playoffs this year he's probably fired anyway.

    EDIT: Looks like the Cubs are getting 2 'prospects' back in the deal too.
     

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