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The Debunked Lies of Week 2

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin D, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    [table="width: 750"]
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    [td]LIE[/td]
    [/tr]
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    [td]Our running game is dead.[/td]
    [/tr]
    [TR="bgcolor: #009ca5"]
    [td]TRUTH[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]No its not, its just that none of the coaches like running the ball. Its kinda like a third boob on Scarlett Johansson. I mean sure, a third boob is nice and all, but really you'd already have your hands full with the first two, and let's be honest, this probably isn't lasting long enough for you to have time for a third one.
    [/td]
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    [/table]
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    [table="width: 750"]
    [TR="bgcolor: #ff8200"]
    [td]LIE[/td]
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    [tr]
    [td]Philbin may have lost this team.[/td]
    [/tr]
    [TR="bgcolor: #009ca5"]
    [td]TRUTH[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]- 0 penalties.
    - 2-0 on the road.
    - Philbin in the speech, tells them to mention its a great team win.....90% of the players tweets mention its a great team win.
    - ESPN's James Walker says, "Perhaps the most telling sign of a maturing team was Miami's even-keeled demeanor in the locker room. There was no excessive celebrating or chest-thumping after picking up a big win." he also reported that Mike Wallace said, "I think the Thursday off really helped,” Wallace explained. “It was a big thing for us. I was asking all the guys in the huddle, and I said, ‘Man, I feel pretty good today.’ Everybody said their legs feel fresh.”
    - And all of that from an insanely young team overall.

    This team is as bought in to Philbin as I have been. Well, maybe a little less. I mean I worship the guy, they probably don't take it that far....I have problems they likely do not.
    [/td]
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    [table="width: 750"]
    [TR="bgcolor: #ff8200"]
    [td]LIE[/td]
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    [td]Tannehill held back his receivers. (Yes, many people said that last year.) [/td]
    [/tr]
    [TR="bgcolor: #009ca5"]
    [td]TRUTH[/td]
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    [td]There have been 4 TDs in these 2 games that either ended in a TD or set up a go ahead TD, that were achieved by YAC: Hartline's TD last week. Clay's big gain. Wallace's screen. Wallace's big play. Tannehill did not get that kind of help last year.

    In fact, the main difference in this game vs last year's Colts game, was that our receivers made plays and so did our secondary. I honestly don't see a huge difference in Tannehill's game.
    [/td]
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    [table="width: 750"]
    [TR="bgcolor: #ff8200"]
    [td]LIE[/td]
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    [td]Tannehill is poor with deep ball accuracy.[/td]
    [/tr]
    [TR="bgcolor: #009ca5"]
    [td]TRUTH[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]This lie has to stop. Its kind of crazy that a QB in the TOP 10 in deep ball completion percentage would be considered poor. From ESPN to PFF, Tannehill was in the top 10 last year with accuracy of throws over 20 yards....as a rookie.
    [/td]
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    [/table]

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    [table="width: 750"]
    [TR="bgcolor: #B22222"]
    [td]
    REOCCURRING LIE ALERT​
    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]The media is still trying to sell the lie about Wallace being angry with the play calling last week. Sigh, those tainted bags of douche.[/td]
    [/tr]

    [/table]
     
    evz, Mainge, sports24/7 and 27 others like this.
  2. Killer Bees

    Killer Bees Bringin' the Ruckus

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    Love it bro, made me giggle.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  3. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    LIE: You use your mouth, that's what a third boob is for. Especially on ScarJo.
     
  4. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    LIE: Ryan Tannehill doesn't belong on the same field as Andrew Luck.

    TRUTH: [​IMG]
     
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  5. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Stats, stats, stats. Anyone with eyes can see he has trouble leading receivers deep, hitting them in stride. If the Colts hold us at the one, still an accurate throw to Wallace? Stats down as a completion, though. Must've been an accurate pass. Please.

    I'm not down on RT in any way. Some things need to be called out. That's not a lie.
     
  6. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    This is great motivational material. Keep it up Fin D.
     
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  7. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    i guess you didn´t saw the pressure that he had on that pass to wallace to the 1 ?
     
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  8. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Or, if it's on the back you just take up slow dancing.
     
  9. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Throws over 20 isn't the same thing as a deep ball to me. Obviously all deep balls go over 20 yards, but not all throws over 20 yards are deep balls.

    I think that's an important distinction.
     
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  10. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I agree but I think you're insane if you don't see the change in Ryan.

    As to the placement on that deep pass, could have been better but like I said in another thread a further pass has higher trajectory and there was a safety over top. I'm not convinced Wallace didn't score anyway.

    No to mention even if I'm incorrect, I've seen Peyton Manning not throw the nicest passes at times. You know what I do see though? Him finding a way to get the ball to his receivers letting them make plays.
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    You're acting like this is some kind of obscure stat that is based off proprietary formulas built on biased logic. Its not. Its just a simple average based on attempted throws of 20+ yards to completed throws of 20+ yards.

    Your problem is Tannehill's deep throws mean more to you than any other QB's deep throws, so his misses are more magnified as are the imperfect completions.

    Simple fact of the matter, is your eyes are biased and you're working off incomplete information because you don't see 100% of all other QB's deep throws. You're going to want to argue this, but I promise you're wrong about it. The results prove that Tannehill is one of the top QBs in the league in completing balls thrown over 20 yards.
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    If you're saying there's a difference between a ball thrown 5 yards where the WR takes it 15 more yards and pass that travels 20 yards in the air, then yes. If we are just saying a pass where the net result is over 20 yards (including YAC) then Tannehill was the #1 QB in the league last year. If we are talking about passes that traveled 20+ yards in the air then he was #9.

    Either way you slice it, his deep ball accuracy is not a problem but actually a strength.
     
  13. Zippy

    Zippy The Man in Black. Club Member

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    Enjoy these FinD! Got a great laugh out of the third boob analogy!
     
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  14. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    The deep ball to Wallace that got down to the 1 yard line was woefully underthrown, should have been an easy touchdown. Regardless, he played a very good game.
     
  15. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

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    swear you people are never happy, must be the 20+ years of mediocrity we've suffered through has broken you. We won the friggin game, we had some big plays and our offseason acquisitions played well. Our foundation is now in place.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000245189/article/what-we-learned-week-2-nfc-east-or-nfc-least

    Love the final sentence below

     
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  16. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, this is over in a hurry, time to cuddle and fall asleep.
     
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  17. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think "woefully" is a bit much. It was underthrown, but part of the reason is that Ryan absolutely did not want to overthrow it, so took a little extra off it. After all, it was just a whisker from being a TD as it was.
     
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  18. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    He is accurate beyond 20 yards, I think the difference many of us have to acknowledge is, Ryan can throw deep, he has the arm and accuracy, but he struggles with his accuracy on OVER THE TOP throws. There is not denying that. None.
     
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  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    What do you mean by "over the top throws"?
     
  20. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    The deep ball issue is a little overdone here. Watch every single QB in the league and you'd see them overthrow receivers multiple times every single game. Yeah, multiple times every single game, that's right.

    Those throws are not easy, not even more the Mannings and Rodgers of the world. You will miss a share of them. The fact that people expect Tannehill to connect on every single one of those passes, and to put them on an absolute perfect tee, is frankly a little annoying.
     
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  21. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Meaning when Wallace or Hartline more specifically, because he has had more situations with Tanny, has the CB by 5 yards and Ryan needs to lob it into their bread basket, he struggles with that throw. He obviously makes some of the throws on point. But he definitely has some struggles there.

    To clarify, over the top throws that should be a walk in touch down.
     
  22. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Tannehills gorgeous 3rd down throw between 2 zone defenders to Hartline down the seam made Trent Dilfers "Dimes" this morning on Sportscenter. Honestly the back shoulder pass to Clay should've made it too. But Ill take one. Dilfers always like Tanne, so it was ****ing awesome to see! That thing was gorgeous.
     
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  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    That's what I thought you meant but I wanted to be sure before moving further.

    How many should he have made from the ones he didn't? 100%? 50%?
     
  24. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    It's 938 in the morning Fin D. And I just picked my son up for a few days. So he is running around. I'm not sure I'm in a position right now to remember much, much less debate lol.

    But to clarify, I am not saying he "missed" on the throws against the Colts. I'd consider the throw to Wallace a "hit". But he didn't put it in the right spot to lead the receiver correctly. And even a majority of his deep over the top connections, it seems to be the same story.
     
  25. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Keep this thread going.. I can't wait to see the debunked lies of week 19!!
    If you don't continue this thread weekly you will jinx the team. Sorry bro, the fate of the 2013 Phins lies in your hands!
     
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  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I understand man. Its early and kids are crazy.

    I hope you'll come back later and explain. I just think you have to grade these throws based on reality and not based on perception. If he is less on target then most others QBs, then there's a point ot be made. But, there needs to be evidence for that point to be valid.
     
  27. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Right, I am a numbers guy, but in this situation, it's hard to pull numbers. As exactly what happened yesterday can happen. Ryan hit Wallace, so numbers wise he looks perfect, but he should of led him more. Just based on my memory, which I admit isn't great, top tier QBs have better ball placement in those situations. Just my memory. I'm not talking about being hit as he throws. I'm talking being able to step into it and deliver an over the top throw where the receiver doesn't or barely has to break stride.
     
  28. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    I think perception tells you other QBs hit deep targets with better accuracy and ball placement, but I think it is not really so. Even someone like Eli Manning, who has made his career on hitting deep throws to win games and win SBs, constantly misses players deep, and worse, constantly throws INTs on account of overthrows.
     
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  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    If we're looking for ju-ju on the board, I'd say its more likely Sick's game day threads then this one.

    But my plan is to do this the rest of the year anyway.
     
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  30. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    IIRC he was pressured and even had his jersey grabbed, quickly stepped up in the pocket and his QB rush clock was screaming and he let it fly.....considering that he hit Wallace pretty good.
     
  31. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    [​IMG]
     
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  32. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm saying that all balls that travel 20 yards in the air are not all deep balls.
     
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Ok fine and that's your right. I hope you'll understand, that I shouldn't be held to your own personal definition of deep ball then.

    I mean, anyone can just up and decide that a deep ball could be whatever they want it to, whether it be 50 yards...or 100....or 2 even.
     
  34. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    I've done it, a lot of QB's have done it when a guy is that wide open. The only mistake you can make on that ball is to over-throw it, so you don't. There is no worse feeling as a QB then to overthrow a guy that wide open. He made the safe pass and as a former QB, I don't fault him on that ball.

    woefully underthrown is an overstatement. Over throw you get nothing, it really was the smart throw.
     
  35. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Okay thanks.

    I don't know what else to say. If you think this throw or this throw is the same kind of throw as this: http://imgur.com/K7YUTs2

    Then fine. All of these throws traveled 20 yards in the air. Most people would only consider the last one a deep ball. Most people consider a deep ball to be an over the top throw, as someone alluded to earlier. For the record, I have no opinion on Ryan Tannehill's deep ball. I haven't seen anything to suggest that he's either good or bad at it.
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Look around on the web. Any place that tracks stats track deep balls as over 20 yards. I didn't invent this.
     
  37. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I'll just use my ability to think critically instead and understand the difference between those kinds of throws, but thanks.

    ESPN tracks balls beyond that number so I'll blow off work and compile balls thrown 30+ yards in the air. I do think this will give us a better idea on his "over the top" ball accuracy.
     
  38. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    In my lab, concocting week 3 lies
    [​IMG]
     
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  39. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I can go with that, "woefully" is a bit extrme.
     
  40. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    2012 Completion Percentage of throws 30 or more yards down the field:


    Brees 39.4%
    Rodgers 37.5%
    E. Manning 37%
    P. Manning 36.9%
    Romo 34.4%
    Schaub 33.3%
    Smith 33%
    Locker 31.3%
    Stafford 31.2%
    Cutler 30.8%
    Ryan 30%
    Bradford 29.6%
    Brady 28.6%
    Newton 28%
    Weeden 27.8%
    Wilson 27.6%
    Freeman 27.3%
    Foles 27.3%
    Sanchez 26.6%
    Rothlisberger 26.3%
    Luck 25%
    Flacco 23.8%
    Rivers 23.8%
    Tannehill 23.5%
    Griffin III 23.5%
    Dalton 22.7%
    Palmer 21%
    Gabbert 20%
    Vick 19%
    Fitzpatrick 18.2%
    Ponder 18.2%
    Henne 16.7%
    Kaepernick 14.3%
    Cassel 0%
     

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