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The Definitive Ryan Tannehill Post

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by tirty8, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    ESPN just said Tannehill has a 40% chance of not being in a Miami dolphins uniform next season... 40% is quite high for a guy that should be a franchise quarterback.
     
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  2. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Oh, he's "decent'' now... That's quite a concession. ;)

    If you bothered to read the nonsense I was responding to you'd understand why I posted that.

    No idea why you threw Bob or Danny in there, but ok... Griese was nothing special his first 4 seasons in the league, but both he and Marino had to the benefit of playing with HOF'ers and Probowlers on their OLs and at WR, RB, and on Defense. Griese was the most sacked QB in the AFC in 69 and threw more INTs than TDs a lot of years. If he hadn't had Shula at HC, that OL, Csonka, Kiick, Morris, Warfield, Little, Mandich, etc... he'd have been a footnote in team history like Earl Morrall or Woodley are.

    Not taking anything away from what Bob or Danny contributed themselves to the glory years, but c'mon, they had some great surrounding talent all over the team, particularly on the OL and at WR.

    The point of all this is that Tannehill is not elite and never will be, but he's never much help either and he gets too much of the blame when sh*t goes sideways. I'm glad Gase is calling BS on it.
     
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  3. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    All these accolades yet is likely on his way out..

    Say's a lot about stats, eh.
     
  4. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Tannehill is extremely intelligent and no idea where you cooked up that he's physically limited throwing the football. He can throw it all over the field and put it 60 yards in the air. That's as good as it gets. As for the checkdowns, he's routinely criticized for that very thing - checking down instead of launching it.

    Where Tannehill struggles is the speed of his mental processing, his poor pocket instincts, his inability to escape pressure, and his lack of ability to improvise. That said, it's hard to work on pocket presence when you rarely have a pocket to work from and you're getting almost simultaneous pressure from multiple spots. It's not like he's standing there for 3 seconds before 1 defender breaks free from one of our OTs and chases him down. They pressure is usually within 1.5 to 2.5 seconds and it's coming from multiple spots at the same time.

    And no one is saying that he couldn't do more to avoid some of the sacks, but you're talking about him being able to avoid maybe 1 or 2 every few games. Not going to happen in a game like against the Bengals or Titans where the OL is in disarray from start to finish and he gets sacked 6 times on 18 drop backs in under 2.7 seconds.

    Don't be surprised if he's still here next season. His salary at $18M is not going to prevent him returning. The NFL Cap goes up to $166M and we're at a projected $28M under it already. Cut the fat and it almost doubles that. Unless we get something solid in return on a trade, he'll be back. That said, I'd love to see him on the Cardinals.
     
  5. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Well, we all know eSPIN is never wrong.

    Flipside of that stat is that there's a 60% chance he's back... right?
     
  6. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Again, taking it out of context of what I was responding too...

    Personally, I don't care if Tannehill returns or not. I'm hoping he gets traded.

    I'd love to see him on the Cardinals team with a good HC, good offense, OL, RBs, WRs, and a decent Defense. Like Wake, he deserves better than this POS team. If I were him I'd have demanded a trade already.
     
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  7. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    No one is trading for his salary.
     
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  8. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Some probably said the same thing about Cutler before he was traded to the Bears... and while Bradford was a special situation, it shows that teams are willing to suck up if they think they can win with a guy.

    Carson Palmer's 2017 cap hit is over $24M. Tannehill's current cap hit with us for 2017 is $20M. They can always restructure.

    Cardinals make perfect sense. Palmer turns 37 in Dec and has played a complete season once in the past 3 seasons.
     
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  9. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    That's a real surprise. I would have thought the numbers were reversed. And who has suggested Tannehill is a franchise QB. You crack me up sometimes.
     
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  10. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    100 million, Steve Ross suggests that
     
  11. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    You know that's not true.
     
  12. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    You're not taking away - you're just taking away, which is blasphemy (especially in Marino's case).

    The point was you're propping up high volume stats in an era of football that's the most pro-passing and high scoring it's ever been for a franchise who's has had no foundation at the position in nearly two decades.
     
  13. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Got this from another poster, it's Bedard

    http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/10/13/ryan-tannehill-adam-gase-dolphins

     
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  14. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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  15. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    a lot of people were calling BS on it, until they kept seeing the same thing game after game year after year.
     
  16. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I think they've crawled into the woodwork.
     
  17. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Read that this morning and found it astounding that a guy is going to write a piece like that and say that that the QB was at fault on 15 of 17 sacks and 7 INTs this season and not offer a single shred of evidence, video, stills, metrics, or other evidence to back that assertion up. Cian Fahey has already called him out as being FOS for several of his claims in that piece. https://twitter.com/Cianaf/status/786601605273522177
     
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  18. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Depends on context of the word "franchise". If you're using it in he's been the franchise QB for the past 5 years, then it's completely accurate. If you're using it in the context of "he's elite", or upper echelon, then it's not. Some confuse the 2 terms.
     
  19. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Yeah I think using the word "biased" was either unnecessary or showed bias on the part of Bedard. However, whether he used that word to describe Gase or not is really immaterial to the question of how much Tannehill was at fault.

    Personally, I wouldn't put too much cred into the opinions of any of these guys because they're all going off of their own subjective thresholds for saying who was at fault for what. Best thing to do IMO would be to put all the videos up on a site and let neutral fans who know enough about football judge. I bet the average opinion is somewhere between the two.

    Either way, to my own eyes Tannehill is partially or mostly at fault on too many of the sacks, whatever the actual number.
     
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  20. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    or a lot about this fan base.
     
  21. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Blasphemy? Oh, spare the righteous indignation. I love Marino as much the next guy, but get real. He was flawed also and didn't go out in a blaze of glory either. And suddenly you're dropping Griese from the convo along with the supporting cast these guys had.

    If any of those stats you're all up in arms about are so meaningless and easy, how did a guy like Tannehill do them when so many better other QBs haven't? Oh, wait. He's moved up to "decent" in the past 24 hours. That must be it.

    You know what? I don't GAF. I already know that anytime you see Tannehill's name and the gist of the convo isn't something negative, you grab your Tanny-bashing hammer and weigh in blindly swinging. If what you say gets refuted, you move the goalposts and keep playing. The shtick is old.
     
  22. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Good post... and I agree with you. Tannehill is partially responsible for all of the issues. It's just silly that these guys come out of the woodworks with these sort of pieces.

    I want to be neutral on him, but find the negative stuff just too over the top.

    Really hoping we're either able to fix the ENTIRE offense this off-season or trade Tannehill away, as unlikely as that scenario is.
     
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  23. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Says the man who wears Tanny's used gameday underwear.

    The fact that these conversations are even taking place says all we need to know about Ryan Tannehill.
     
  24. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure Marino would have success with this group of receivers and his quick release helped make the OL look even better.
     
  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bedard calls Gase biased. DUH OF COURSE HE'S Biased. that's his QB. Does it get anymore biased than that? Where is Cian Fahey's rebuttal.

    Cian Fahey sounds a little Pro-Tanny biased himself. For example, even blaming Tanny for the first INT to Parker, he says Parker didn't have to reach back for it. Parker literally turns his body 180 degrees to make the catch, Fahey offers up the Gif, then puts a conclusion that belies the gif.

    Because it's so "easy" to secure a ball that hits your shoulder right? He did secure it, but since it hit his shoulder, it was easy to rip it out of his arms.

    Gif not working, link to gif towards the bottom

    http://presnapreads.com/2016/10/13/adam-gase-ryan-tannehill-and-realistic-expectations/
     
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  26. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here is Fahey's take for anyone who wants, you know, actual evidence.

    http://presnapreads.com/2016/10/13/adam-gase-ryan-tannehill-and-realistic-expectations/
     
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  27. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    I'll sell them to you on ebay to join the rest of your used jock sniffing collection.

    And you're the one who jumped into this to begin with. Don't get butthurt for being called out on your own BS.
     
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  28. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess you missed this part of Fahey's comment on that play

     
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  29. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess you missed this part of my post:

    He spends 6 more paragraphs talking about Parker. Parker was not to blame for that pass. It was behind him, it hit him in the shoulder. Fahey is arguing, since it hit him in the shoulder, he should have secured it. That's just wrong and biased. He even tries to say "chest/shoulder" when it's clearly shoulder. Look at the gif when it's paused, it's nowhere near his chest.

    This is a subtle type of bias you're witnessing here.

    Even your quote says it at the end, "His pass wasn't way off target though."

    Yes it was. Parker had to 360 to catch it. That pass exemplifies Tanny's career. His anticipation of WR speed is just slightly off. He's off target a lot on WR crossing patterns. Especially with Mike Wallace who was way too fast for Tanny.
     
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  30. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    You are off your rocker ..... and it's hilarious! :pointlol:
     
  31. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think his point is that even though that was a poor pass, it was still one that is catch-able and that you expect a first round WR to make a play like that. But even if you simply put that in the fail column for Tannehill, Fahey's article offers plenty of reasons why the other players effected the outcome of the other plays whereas Bedard pulls an Omar Kelly and says it was Tannehill's fault trust me I watched the plays.
     
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  32. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Not sure who he was arguing with there, but he specifically asked for some proof as to claims. Cian swings both ways on Tannehill. He defends him against what he considers unfair criticism, but will go off on him at times himself. He's stated that he sees him as another Sam Bradford, as a better than advertised QB who has been victimized by bad coaching and bad teams. He did a pretty good break down on each of the Dolphins games this season and every one of sacks from both the Bengals and Titans games. You can find him over on FH using the name "colostomy bag" this season.

    As for the Parker INT, I agree that the ball was thrown behind Parker. Watch the clusterfk that was supposed to the pocket. It collapses before Tannehill can complete the throwing motion. The ball placement was off. If the ball was in front of Parker, it's an easy catch and run. But it wasn't. The ball was behind due to the circumstances. Parker snags it and pulls into his chest, but the DB rips it away from him.

    Here's the EZ view. Parker has it, but doesn't secure it.

    [​IMG]

    The All-22 view/coaches views are usually better than what's on TV...
     
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  33. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Agree... and more and more people are starting to call Parker "soft". Gase himself has been highly critical of him this season. And it's not unfair to expect Parker to catch and retain that pass. Omar, oddly enough, has been more fair to Tannehill this season than I can ever recall. He's still highly critical, but it's not the same old "it's all Tannehill's fault" this season. Maybe it's due to his man crushes on the dreadlock bros not starting this season...

    Conversely, since we're talking about Parker, he and Stills both did a sh*t job of down field blocking on the Williams Screen pass that went for 58 yards. If they'd been busting *** down there blocking Williams might have scored on that play and same with Landry. He took a TD off the board with a holding call on a guy about his same size that he should've been able to block straight up. Even if Ajayi hadn't have scored on that TD pass, at least we wouldn't have had the penalty and lost 10 yards those yards putting us in a long/passing situation and having to settle for a FG.
     
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  34. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stills isn't much of a blocker and his poor blocking has blown up a number of Landry screens this year. I think they were mostly during preseason and have move away from even running that play anymore.
     
  35. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Stills is a weak sister. He's got no business operating within 10 yards of the LOS and his blocking is bad due to being a weakling. He is a solid speedster though and can make down field plays... when he's not dropping 70 yard bombs... /sighs
     
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  36. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    ? The fanbase is going to release him?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Its amazing the depth some will go to blame Thill.

    - Deep balls are actually 40+ yards instead of 20+ if it makes him look bad.
    - Clutch is choking, but just choking less then the league average of choking.
    - And now catchable balls, are only catchable if and only if the ball is placed directly in the breadbasket.
     
  38. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It was catchable, but the fact the defender was there to rip it out while it was still vulnerable, is 0% on Parker. 8" to the right (or left, depending on your perspective) and it's a more secure catch. It hits him on his shoujlder while he's spinning 360 degrees and the other defender is there.

    Cian is arguing, oh he should have secured it. That's absurd. Or Cian Fahey doesn't understand physiology.

    Or he's suffering from confirmation bias (most likely). Cian Fahey has been claiming Ryan is the Franchise QB nobody knows about. So he's spent the last 3 years supporting his proclamation. It's human nature.
     
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  39. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I really think it's something with Miami. Stills was THE BEST when he was in New Orleans. No hyperbole, even with the caps. And it wasn't because of Brees.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/qb-and-location-adjusted-catch-rates/
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/depth-and-passer-adjusted-catch-rates/
    So what happened when he came to Miami? It seems all of our WRs dating back to Chambers has had dropsies problems. Gotta be the weather.
     
  40. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It was a bad pass, no one is arguing otherwise, not even Fahey. But explain to me how if it was a catchable ball as you state in your first paragraph then why would it be absurd to expect Parker to secure the ball as you state in the second paragraph?
     
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