The Florida Marlins 2011 Thread-Undefeated vs Braves.

Ummm yes. The Marlins would give up both and not think twice about it. Upton is better than any position Marlin player not named Hanley Ramirez.

 

I agree. He's not Jonny Venters or anything but he can surely help a pretty terrible Marlins bullpen improve.

 

The John Buck deal is done.

 

What's the point of having cost controlled players if they aren't any good? And imo, you're seriousely underrating Infante and Dunn. He doesn't stink and is not a career bench player anymore. The last 3 seasons, his OBP has been .353 and he's played solid defense. About Dunn, some think he will be a LOOGY and others think he can be a dominant lefty. It's a wait and see deal.

I didn't say their better by trading Uggla for Infante and Dunn. I said at the end of the day, we're still a better team and we are.

 

I'm not underrating Infante, I simply don't think he's very good or can match his 2010 season, which was mostly a fluke. He has no power or speed. The only reason why he had a good OBP this year was because it was aided by a high BA, his BABIP was high too so he had a bit of luck on his side last year. He doesn't have much patience at the plate. He's not an everyday player on a contending team. He's a useful bench player because he canplay multiple positions but yeah I'd be shocked if he put up numbers like he did in 2010.

What's the point of trading one player with 1 year left on his contract for 2 players, when 1 of those players is most likely gone after the season anyway? You don't like the Toronto package, that's fine, I'm not in love with it either. Maybe the Marlins were just better off keeping Uggla and getting the picks instead. I just think this trade was a little strange and I didn't like it from the Marlins' side of it.

 

You missed the part where I said he had an OBP of .353 the last 3 seasons. With his defense, he's a starter for contendig teams. His offense doesn't even have to be that good.

And the point of trading Uggla is to get value for him while it's at it's highest. We could have let him walk for the picks, but I'd rather us trade for pieces that could help us now rather than later.

 

I didn't ignore that part. I said his OBP was high this past year because of a high BA. The previous 2 seasons he was a part time player (so small sample sizes), and I don't consider a .338 OBP, which he had in 2008, good either. And his defense isn't that good that his lack of offense justifies him staying in the line up everyday.

 

991 Ab is a great sample size to use. And in those 991 AB, he had a .353 OBP. You can't ignore it just to fit your argument. The average is around .340, so he's above average when it comes to getting on base. Add that to his decent defense, and you have a starter who can bat #2 in your lineup.

 

Right you're the one cherry picking stats but saying I'm ignoring things to fit into my argument. Why only use the last 3 years and not the last 4 or his whole career? Anyway 70 walks and 3 HBP in 1083 plate appearances (you can't say ABs since walksHBP/sac flys/sac bunts don't count as an official AB) doesn't scream out high OBP guy, most of that OBP number is due to a good BA, which again is based on a high BABIP the past 3 years.

Maybe you should look up his defensive stats, I think you'd be a little surprised. He's not the defensive wiz you think he is.

EDIT: I saw you changed your stance on his defense, saying he has decent defense. Well him having decent defense with his bat again doesn't justify him being an everyday player on a contending team.

 

I believe the Blue Jays didn't think his arm could play at 3B. And I heard the Red Sox were unsure he could handle it either.

Not sure how Uggla could demand he won't play 3rd. It's not like he has a choice in that matter.

 

Cherry picking stats? Are you serious? I'm saying he has a good OBP and you refuse to believe that. You mentioned his lack of playing time, which was dumb because the last 3 seasons he's been just fine getting on base. About his BABIP, fangraphs has it dropping from .355 to .332, and do you know what his OBP is? .342. Basically making him above league average again.

And I never called him a defensive wiz. Don't put words in my mouth. I said he has solid defense, which I was wrong about, but he can still be a starter because he can get on base and his defense isn't a liability. It isn't great, but he gets the job done.

 

He has a good OBP because of his BA. He doesn't walk at all. His high BABIP shows that he's been lucky. Once his BA drops his OBP won't be favorable anymore because he doesn't walk. Why is that so hard to understand?

You're right you didn't say he was a defensive wiz, but for someone like Infante to be an everyday player with a weak bat his defense has to be very good and it's not.

And yes I was being serious about cherry picking stats. Why did you pick the last 3 years, why not 4 or 5 or his whole career? It's because his OBP won't fit your arguement. It's funny that once his BABIP and BA started going up his OBP did too. Yet he's shown no real improvement with his walk rate. Do you now see how his OBP is misleading and once those extra groundballs find fielder's gloves instead of the holes his OBP won't look as good?

 

Count me in, if they're willing to pay him and keep him around.

 

He's signed through 2015 with the life/money of the contract averaging out paying him $8.5 million per year I believe.

 

While I do agree with you, he was a ULT player in 2008 and 2009 too. And the sample sizes for those two years were small. I think he only got 200 at bats in one of those years.

 

I already showed you, his BABIP could drop from .355 to .332 and he could still have an above average OBP.

His OBP is good enough to start, IMO.

I picked the last 3 seasons because it's obvious he's been showing improvemant compared to the beginning of his career. And I don't see how you can automatically assume his BABIP Is going to just drop so much. Yes, it's not going to be .355, but .332 sounds reasonable, and if he does that, he can have a OBP of .342, which is above league average.

 

Here's a nice comparison: Without knowing the batting average would you consider a player with 67 walks and 13 HBP in 1057 plate appearances in the past 3 years someone with a good OBP? Just to remind you Infante had 70 BB and 3 HBP in 1083 PA in those 3 years.

 

That's kind of hard to say without knowing his BA.

 

Right, it's John Buck who sported OBPs of .304, .299, .314 the past 3 years. Again Infante's OBP looks better than it should be because of his high BABIP.

And why am I down on Infante? Because Pujols career average BABIP is .315 (which is a bit misleading because he hits so many HRs), Jose Reyes is .308, Jimmy Rollins is .290. I just can't see Infante being able to keep it up, he just seems to have been very fortunate the past 3 years.

Anyway it was a nice debate (I mean it I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything like that) but I'm honestly done with talking about Omar Infante. Let me know when you want to talk about Jeff Francoeur or Nate McLouth's defense and I'll be ready!

 

I actually think they're not very good defenders.

 

Okay, so why isn’t the thread title fixed yet?

Anyway. Next up: Javier Vazquez.

 

I think it will be done by Friday the latest. What a great addition he will be.

 

Ok enlighten me. Why is a 34 year old pitcher who went 10 and 10 exciting? Especially because it seems like he will cost lots of money.

 

There has been concern that Vasquez wasn't healthy last year due to the decrease in velocity. That's the only red flag he'd have. It's a good gamble by FL, especially if the contract is short.

 

Vazquez deal done pending a physical. 1 year, terms unknown.

 

Awesome. Deal is around 6 or 7 million.

 

Nice get by FL, especially since they only signed him for 1 year, again there was a lot of whispers that he was hurt all last year because his velocity and stuff were down.

 

This has to be sarcastic, because so far Skipworth has been worth skipping !

 

by the way, Logan Morrison's dad died yesterday. My condolences go out to him and his family. RIP Mr Morrison, maybe peace be with your family.

 

Yeah, I just saw...sad stuff. It was nice to see him traveling everywhere to see LoMo play in the Majors last season. RIP

 

Yeah it was cool that he got to see his son play in a major league uniform. I read Loria has told LoMo he will pay for his Mom to go on a nice trip when she feels ready for it. That's pretty damn cool.

 

Choate agrees to a 2yr/2.5 mil contract...solid sign

 

3yr/26.5 mil for Ricky...I'm mixed about giving him 8-9 mil/year

 

The Nolasco deal feels like the Marlins saying “See, we CAN spend the Uggla money elsewhere if we really wanted to!”