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Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Desides, Mar 31, 2008.
If that's true the Marlins should be considered a serious threat in 2009.
I guess Loria's competitive side finally came out. This also has as much to do with $ as is does with winning though, make no bones about that.
I think many people in Florida followed the Marlins more than the Rays. They never had a winning season, the Marlins 2 World Series rings. That meant the Marlins had better TV ratings, and more radio revenue because of a bigger raido network. That meant more TV & radio revenue.
The Rays get good, and all of that changes. Stations that carry the Marlins, might now consider changing to the Rays, the Marlins lose money. So even though on the surface it looks like its a ploy to keep the team together, its also about his having more competition statewide, including South Fla. There are thousands of disaffected baseball fans in South Fla, who now might, just might start buying Rays jerseys, and decided, "lets go see the Rays, and not the Marlins" if say they live in West Palm Beach for instance.
Trust me, its about the $$$ and not all about winning. But the keeping them together does help build trust with the fans.
It will be interesting to see what happens by next July. I think a lot of the close to FA guys disappear if the Marlins have another 2007 season.
We hope....but the defense still needs to improve, as well as the bullpen.
it takes a certain amount of skill to turn something positive, into a swipe at the management.
As long as Loria is the owner, I'm gonna ride his butt......he is the worst sports owner ever.
Mike Jacobs to be Dealt to the Royals soon!
Done deal. Mike Jacobs traded for RHP reliever Leo Nunez.
Looks like Gaby Sanchez is going to be our 1B.
Anyone know anything about Nunez?
according to the papers he is middle reliever who might be able to be molded into a closer. This was just a salary dump in my opinion. They have others who can play 1st, and maybe better (Sanchez, Cantu & Helms platoon seems reasonable) but we will lose some of the power.
Those arms have to pitch better next year if they are going to dump the power. I just hope we don't become like the Dodgers.....all pitching and boring as hell on offense.
Love this move.
We will get much better defensivly and besides we will lose some of the strikeouts. It does not help to score and have our relief pitchers give the runs back. I like the move so far.
How much was he making?
Arbitration eligible. He was probably going to make $2-$3 million.
Its looking like Nunez will be the setup man for the Marlins (He is making 400,000 and is eligable for arbritration after 09).
Kevin Gregg and Scott Olsen are being shopped so far.
We could get something for Olsen, but we may just have to outright release Gregg.
Your not serious?
Back end reliever with a sub-3.5 ERA and 1.25 WHIP over the past two seasons and is on pace to become a Type-A FA?
Except he has no value to us. I don't think anyone wants him back after the way he imploded this year. The stats say one thing, the game footage says another.
I would LOVE to be wrong about this, but I don't see the team getting even a bag of chips for Gregg.
Hes also due to make 4m in arby and isnt that good of a closer. Then again hes an upgrade over anything my mets have but still you get the point.
mid to high 90's fastball, good movement on the pitch. Secondary pitches need work but still very effective. could be a potential closer this year if Lindstrom falters and his secondary pitches (slider, change) continue to improve.
He has plenty of value You realize the only difference between Gregg and K-Rod is a meaningless save stat and ridiculously high BABIP. Perception may tell one thing but fact is, is that he's been a very effective reliever over the past 2 seasons. And will become at the very worst, a Type-B Free Agent. Most likely though he will be a Type-A.
Gregg will fetch value of at least equal to Jacobs.
Hope you're right, Mainge. I just can't shake the feeling we'd be hard pressed to get a bag of Doritos for him.
sign ben sheets!!!!!!
While the save stat itself is meaningless the fact that Gregg blew 7 or 8 games this year in many less chances says hes not a closer. That makes him just another mediocre middle reliever due to make a lot of money. He may come through as a type A, but more likely its as a type B. If someone does trade for him it will be a fringe prospect because of the money he will get in arbitration which will judge him as a closer since thats what he was last year.
While I dont really doubt his ability as a pretty decent middle reliever/setup guy, I hope you see the argument Im making...
Sounds a heck of a lot like you're agreeing with me.
I absolutely do. I just think that Saves are largely luck. The only 3 variables a pitcher can control are K/9, BB/9, and HR/9. Everything else fluctuates year to year. The biggest difference between Gregg in '07 and Gregg in '08, is that his BB/9 was .6 higher this year.
This will correct itself next year, and unlike Benitez, Jones, and Borowski, who all pitched way over their heads, Gregg actually pitched under his peripherals and will be better in 2009.
This thread does not belong on page 2. To get it back to its proper place at the top of the Other Sports forum, some news:
Sergio Mitre was released late last month.
In the wake of dealing Mike Jacobs, Wes Helms has been given a 2 year extension.
Looks like this team is actually going to get a little bit older. Depending on what we do with trades and free agency, the 2009 squad might be a good mix of old and young veterans, with some rookies for flavor. Team management wants to improve defense and athleticism, which to me indicates that guys like Cameron Maybin will start next year. It definitely means we're going to see some turnover, though probably not the dramatic type we've been fearing.
Lastly: Marlins Field (my placeholder name) design is coming along. There are supposedly some influences from Dolphin Stadium in the design, and the team wants it to be a pitcher's/defender's park.
ESPN - Sources: Florida Marlins trade Josh Willingham, Scott Olsen to Washington Nationals
We got fleeced.
Ouch looks like a terrible deal on paper. I would think that Florida could have gotten better packages for Willingham or Olsen alone. A rare bad move by the Marlins GM.
You'd have to think that Uggla is on his way out now too.
EDIT: To be fair though both of the young kids coming to FL are very very young so who knows. Right now it looks like a steal for the Nationals, which is shocking in itself.
If there's anyone on this planet left who thinks Loria is some kind of decent owner I command you to let the person next to you punch you repeatedly in the face.
What an awful deal.
Great spread out the players who kill the mets to the rest of the division.
To be a fly on the wall in the nats clubhouse: Dukes Vs Olsen Vs Milledge. Oh man, the chaos will be at an all time high.
Bonafacio being included makes me believe Uggla is next for you guys. Id take him on NYM. No question about that. While Bonafacio doesnt carry a bat anything like Uggla's his D is supposedly much better, though i didnt see much special about him last year. The 2 kids they got back, one was 4-1/1.59 in the Gulf Coast League and the other hit 306 in single A.
Well good news for the Mets is it doesn't look like the Marlins will be a threat next year like I thought. I'd be surprised to see Uggla and Hermida on the team by April.
I also wonder how long they decide to keep Hanley, if they ever made him available look out for a huge bidding war there.
I see the handwringing has begun.
We were definitely going to move a pitcher; there are 5 guys in a rotation and we had 6 good young guys. Olsen's had personality issues which probably made him expendable.
As for Willingham, have we forgotten that he was on the block this year? I don't like him getting bundled with Olsen for a bunch of guys in the minors, but it was pretty much assured they'd get sent somewhere.
I'll start worrying if Uggla get shipped off for pennies on the dollar. I wouldn't mind seeing Jeremy K. Hermida sent off for a catcher, though.
I don't think it's an issue than Olsen and Willingham were moved, I think the bigger deal is it looks like they gave them away. I personally thought both guys had more value than (probably) a back up infielder and two A ball players. I mean it was just last week people were talking about FL moving Olsen for possibly one of Texas' catchers. Maybe Olsen's drinking problems and Willingham's back were bigger concerns to teams that people thought.
By all means, take Castro back. Last year = Fail for him. Had a perfect chance to steal the catcher job from Schneider and all he wants to do is sleep late and be fat which as a result his back and knees are always hurt.
Ive also heard they are going showcase Annibal Sanchez in Spring Training with the hope of dealing him. They want teams to see he has his velocity back and then try and get whatever they can for him. Dont shoot the messenger, I think I read it in Rosenthal's column a few months ago.
I am once again puzzled. Nothing really to say about this deal. Am I completely lost, or is there not an understood criteria here? You win a title with a young promising group entering their primes, THEN you blow up the team.
I think this is more accurate than either of us know. But remember, with regards to Olsen, it's not just drinking; he's started fights with teammates, and he's been on the wrong end of a tazer before.
If it's "a few months ago," then it was written back when we had 6 pitchers for a 5 man rotation. That problem has been corrected with Olsen gone.
To be honest, I would have preferred to keep Olsen instead of Sanchez, but I can look past Steve Smith's unlicensed plastic surgery on Ken Lucas, so what the hell do I know.
The thing is aside from his start to the season SCOTT OLSEN SUCKS! He was terrible a good portion of the season. He started very strong but reverted to his real self. He isnt a top of the rotation pitcher.
Have we also forgotten that Willingham has chronic back problems that won't go away? And that he refuses to have surgery?
They are decent players but I'm not surprised we didnt get much for them.
Unfortunately for Marlins fans, my theory about Mgt. shipping guys off before they are due to make any significant money seems to be validated yet again.
A utility second baseman is what they received as the key centerpiece? What a joke. Dont get me wrong, Olsen is one of the biggest **** heads in baseball.
But if you're Florida I think you could've gotten a little more. Willingham was rumored in the Manny deal for christ sake!
The centerpiece is Jake Smolinski. The other 2 are basically Robert Andino and Burke Badenhop.
This signals the end of Amezega and Andino more so than Uggla IMO.
Breaking down the Marlins' haul | MLB.com: News