1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Henne argument...why does it exist?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by vt_dolfan, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

    5,525
    4,219
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    PA
    it exists because people will always hate.

    Do you think this board would have been happy with Dan Marino during his last couple seasons? Im almost certain that if this internet forum thing was around back then there would have been threads saying "Man I wish Dan would just retire so we could move on with Damon Huard already"
     
  2. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    14,074
    11,142
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    And this is where I take issue. This is where all objectivity stops from you and it dulls your intelligence and the effort you put into your opinion. Because you break down statistics or watch film doesn't make your opinion anymore right than another's. It's an opinion. It's not a fact. It's not a fact that Chad Henne isn't a problem or the main issue. That is an opinion. And the only history I see from you is that you use that to demean a lot of people trying to discuss their differing opinions. To be more specific on "that", you have a very condescending tone when because you went to the effort to watch all this film, that it's anymore informed than someone who paid $45 to sit in Section 432 and watch the game.

    A mechanic that that watches a lawyer while attending jury duty doesn't make him an informed person to talk about law.

    However the effort you go through absolutely makes your opinion more formidable and much substantial because the information that is attached to it. None of us are scouts, but we don't have to be to have an idea of good football players when we see them. However, because we don't have any qualification that puts us all in the same boat--fans with a voice and passion for discussion our beliefs and opinions on what's best for the team.

    So, you hit a few predictions on player's turning out. I think it's safe to say many of us are in that boat. And if you think you're because people don't have a history of posting on this message board their bold predictions means that you have correctly predicted more than anyone else would be naive and again very condescending.

    I say this in almost every post but it's time for all of us to start getting away from the term bias. We're all biased. You like the Miami Dolphins, that means every opinion you form will be biased. You like Chad Henne. You're opinion of him will be biased. That's OK. There is nothing wrong with that. The problem with that is when, and this isn't directed at you, fans debate the lack of quality of a person's opinion on the person with the basis of it being biased.

    I agree with you, there is nothing more irritating than someone calling me biased about the subject. I know that. But, so is the person saying that to me. We're both in the same boat there.

    I just think if we all try and realize that we all have the same common ally here, the enjoyment of watching the team succeed, we'll have a much easier time of getting along and responding to the posts of people with as much objectivity as possible. Trying to respond to the post rather than poster, as hard as it is sometimes, will always lend itself to healthier debate. It's also important to note that because someone doesn't delve into statistics or the "NFL Rewind" games doesn't make them any less respected of an opinion. Because again, the qualifications of both people are the same and that is, when it comes down to it, we're all fans making opinions based upon a certain favoritism on a belief.

    I don't want to act like there aren't some guys on here that don't hold a higher knowledge of the game, player's etc than others either. I think you're one of those people that does have a firm grasp on the game and high sense of intellect and knowledge on it. However, it doesn't mean your opinion is anymore valid than mine or someone posting their very first post here. Because it's an opinion, it's what "you think" and until it's fact, it's really just a case of he said/she said.
     
    MonstBlitz likes this.
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Really funny thing is, to me, is in 2009, there existed a fair amount of fans who could not wait for Henne to unseat Pennington, that Chad P was just holding our "real Qb of the future" back, a part of all of this really comes from the whole Forum system, back in the day one would simply watch the games and maybe read SI or the Sporting News, now with soo much interaction and information "us" fans have taken the next step into sort of Fan/GM's.

    From the Draft to FA now everyone is free to stake a claim on whatever move the Franchise SHOULD be making "if only they knew as much as "I" do about so and so" and people being people, the opposite position will be taken and the two sides go at like drunken sailors at a Thai house of ill repute.
     
  4. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    14,074
    11,142
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    That's very valid. Nothing pushes people to post more than outliers on emotion. So, in a Game Thread you'll see clear spikes when Henne does something poorly. However, on the opposite end, it's the same as well.

    It's with anything, something needs to push a person to do something. I will say that people always tend to remember the negative sides of things over positive. It's the whole "what have you done for me lately" thing.

    An example for Chad Henne, we all harp on poor throw made in a game where the Dolphins lost, but don't assess all the positives he displayed to put them in the position they were in. The opposite holds true as well, the Dolphins win, and the negatives are looked over because of the result.
     
  5. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    73,714
    34,735
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    Yeah I mean scrubs like James Harrison, Antonio Gates, Priest Holmes and Rich Gannon never bounced around the league for 3-4-5 years before doing anything even worthwhile. Henne may never become an all pro but for me its just too early to write him off entirely especially when next year is a bumper crop for QB's anyway that i liked far more then this years class beyond Mallet and Ponder.
     
  6. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

    1,333
    457
    0
    Aug 4, 2008
    I am very guilty of many of the things you have addressed with your last 3 or so posts. I need to work on that and thank you for posting your thoughts.

    Do you have a blog I can subscribe to :lol:
     
  7. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

    4,749
    1,940
    113
    Oct 9, 2009
    New York
    I think he deserves this final chance. I don't think he will get us to a playoff win, but I would love it he proved me wrong. We'll need to see consistency, that's his biggest issue. Staring down receivers is a problem also. Thing is, can he learn how to stop doing that and how to be consistent and not wilt under pressure like in his last two Decembers?

    Maybe this will have one of those great movie endings where he overcomes the odds a la Rocky, The Karate Kid(original!),The Blind Side. DO IT!
     
  8. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    My biggest beef is------- that members should show a little more respect to those who stick their necks out on the line regarding controversial issues. You don't have to agree with them, but that doesn't mean you can't respect them. Nothing is more infuriating than than knowing DJ (or whomever else) just spend 3-4 hours rewatching a game and reporting on it, only to have someone criticize or insult him b/c they share an opposing belief.

    TBH, that's where everything started getting out of hand, and from there------ the people who were initially being disrespected began losing their tolerance or patience for future disrespectors. The members who support Henne were the ones to be initially ridiculed & heckled. The excessive "Henne lover" comments are what fueled the "Henne hater" comments to arise.
     
  9. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

    8,141
    2,103
    113
    Nov 27, 2008
    Atlanta
    Teams Live and Die by their QB's. Always have always will.

    Average Henne = Average Miami Dolphins

    So yes people are going to be overly critical of this position above ALL else............its center stage

    I hope Henne can prove a lot of people wrong. The fact is he is ranked 26th. That is not to good. I find it hard to swallow, but, more bothersome is that all the "football experts" can't be wrong. Our season depends on his play...........we live and die by him

    I personally can not blame people for wanting to win and for not wanting to accept mediocrity, if, as experts say, Henne is mediocre.

    40 years since we won a Superbowl. I for one am getting tired of "maybe next year" Henne is a dolphin and I will support him because of it.....how much longer I can wait.....not sure
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    105,235
    59,636
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    you have pointed out the one worry I thought would get better just thru experience, and that is, does the game just get to fast for him, and when will it slow down for him, even when he plays well, it still looks like it hasn't completely..

    Good news, I saw a quicker Chad Henne on friday nite..

    I remember when everyone gave me sh%4 for saying that when he came out of college his body was in sloppy condition..Hes tightened up quite well, and it showed in his performance and allowed him to make 2 plays that he wouldn't have if he didn't..
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    105,235
    59,636
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Red, Todd deserves more credit on how he differentiates folks opinions, he's not talking about someone that just has a different opinion on the matter..There's respect and disrespect in the way folks dissagree..some people do it, and some people do it.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  12. Dr. Mookie

    Dr. Mookie New Member

    83
    46
    0
    Jul 27, 2011
    West Hollywood, CA
    I'm not reading all that ... But I support henne.
     
  13. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,108
    5,811
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    :yawn:
     
  14. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    If there was ANY condescending tone, it's because some members feel like those of us who create threads are open season for the firing squad.

    I NEVER said that breaking down statistics and watching film makes anyone more right than someone else. I said that when you take the time to do this, and someone ignores the effort entirely while taking pot shots instead, there's no reason for it. Saying "it's my opinion" doesn't qualify for an excuse to crap unprovoked on someone's thread. Again, members don't have to agree with it, but they can at least respect a person's effort. (I seem to you recall you crapping on one of my threads that took me 4+ hours to make; you didn't address the thread AT ALL; you simply shat on it and my beliefs, and you did so in a pompous manner as if the entire forum were backing you even though many members thanked and appreciated the thread). If that's what you call "discussing differences" and "having a different opinion", then you're right, I do demean you & others for it.


    Do you notice EVERY post that's made to me? No, you don't. So you have no idea what may have prompted my responses that you consider "not accepting of others' opinions".


    Here are a few initial, unprovoked responses to some very time consuming opening posts:
    (you're right, Red; it's so wrong of me to not be accepting of these valid opinions.)
    And the above are just a few of them. Most of them, especially the harsher ones were deleted by mods.
    There are also members who thanked these insulting posts. Most of these people have since lost my respect, but according to you that's demeaning of me. You only comment on the posts I make as if nothing was done previously to provoke them.

    The stuff you say is humorous b/c on multiple occasions you've insulted my opinion/opening post (one time saying my opinion has become extremely annoying to you, telling me that I needed to spend time creating other threads than the ones I'm making b/c you disapprove of them), but here you are trying to argue that people should be entitled to their own opinion.
     
  15. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    exactly, Deej.

    Apparently Red believes it's ok for a member to trash someone's thread (b/c it's an acceptable form of opinion displaying), but it's not ok for the opening poster to be offended by it or lose respect for that poster. If I had a problem with peoples' opinions, I wouldn't have given out 11,000 thank you's...... and there are more than enough members here who can vouch for me accepting & respecting their differing opinion or even having me change mine b/c I felt theirs was more logical.

    Deej, maybe we should just stop creating threads. That way we won't have to deal with as many unprovoked pot shots or unjust criticism. Seriously, if responding to some of these comments makes us out to be the bad guy, then let's remove ourselves from that situation. It's just like a fight in the NFL. It's always the guy who responds to the initial offense who gets flagged.

    What people dont realize is-------> if you have 20 different posters disrespecting you over 4 different threads that you've created, it's harder to notice ALL 20 of those posters. They kinda get lost in the mix or fly under the radar. However, if you subsequently lose respect for ALL 20 of those insulting posters, you're much more likely to be noticed for it, hence have it seem as though you're the one not respecting people when in reality the respect had already been lost.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  16. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

    2,050
    403
    83
    Nov 26, 2007
    I'm convinced what we witnessed last year, was the result of an otherwise promising young QB, become stricken with a debilitating case of playing scared, labor through a misguided season of awkward playcalling, until his chartless control of the ship was eventually decommissioned by the offseason.

    While Henne may be mentally subscribing to this approach, Imo, anything is better than pensive indecision behind center. If nothing else, relax, and like Marino said, "Let it fly". We won't hyperanalyse every pass, because the body of work will speak for itself, and this ongoing debate, to one conclusion or the other, will end.
     
  17. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

    7,723
    5,683
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    No. Both are accurate. It was a bad throw and yet Fasano still gets two hands on it and has to make that catch. Here's my question: Why does it have to be either? Why can't we simply acknowledge the pretty evident reality that a) it was a bad pass and b) it was a bad attempt to catch and c) some OL messed up on that play, too? It's not like it's rocket science. You look at that play, you see a bad throw, a bad "catch" and a pretty unblocked defender. We can certainly argue about who's to blame at what percentage for that interception. But when I read something like "perfect pass", for instance, it's simply make-believe. If you can really look at that play and genuinely see a perfect pass (or attribute the problem solely on Henne, for that matter), then there's no point in even discussing the issue. It's dilusional.

    Again: Why do I have to be either? I really wonder if that's a cultural thing with you American guys; it's the same in the PoFo. Frankly, I think it's precisely this category thinking that's the problem here. Someone says something critical about Henne, he's a hater. Someone else says something positive, he's a homer. It's not only stupid, it's borderline insulting. I've never really understood why a people would so readily divide itself into two political labels, but c'mon, this is football, this is a quarterback, this is the bloody preseason, enough already with the "we against them" thinking.
     
    evz, Stringer Bell and Sceeto like this.
  18. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    That's how I feel, Boik. In my eyes it's a win-win. Either Henne becomes a stud (win), or he doesn't and we draft at QB in the first round who's better than what 2011 had to offer like you mentioned (win also). So I dont get what all the fuss is about or why we'd want a stop gap who might only interfere with either winning scenario. I also don't get how we're labeled Henne-lovers just b/c we feel it's too soon to write him off. lol. That's just a little extreme to me.
     
  19. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,009
    9,844
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Alexandria, VA
    LOL @ The Golden Corral comment. And I really [Jim Rome]Cracked myself up with that stat monkey post.[/Jim Rome]. Yeah I'll take credit for that one and I stand by it.
     
  20. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

    15,863
    6,275
    113
    Dec 12, 2007
    Evans, GA
    I'm almost certain you're completely wrong. Dan could have walked out into the middle of the field and taken a **** at gametime and hardly caught any flak for it.
     
    The_Dark_Knight likes this.
  21. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    7,684
    3,323
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Ohio
    I can tell you for a fact you are wrong because it did happen, I was on ESPN boards at that time and there were plenty of people b*tching about Dan and he was done and he couldnt move saying it was time for him to retire. Many said yes Dan could play that he couldnt be the 80's Dan but he could still throw it. I remember those debates vivdly.
     
  22. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

    21,755
    3,475
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    Oviedo FL
    As do I. Many people were calling for his head and/or JJ's.
     
  23. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    14,074
    11,142
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    I don't see why those threads should be respected anymore than say a fan's first thread trying to spark conversation about anything without the 3-4 hours of effort put into it. My point is, the same amount of respect should be given to each example. The same amount of respect should be given to each response as well.

    I think sometimes, and I'm at fault too, we can blur the lines of what respect/disrespect are and it's blurred with difference of opinion.

    I absolutely agree with you that what constitutes a respectful manner and healthy argument on the Henne subject has been grossly forgotten. It turns into an emotional debate quickly.

    I'm not going to get into who started what. I think it was equally both sides that starting shelling out inappropriate things and both sides have continued the flaming. However, I think if all realize that will always happen on a public message board with frequent drop by's, guests, etc. and try and just let a few roll off the back, we'll be much better suited for healthy conversation.
     
    vt_dolfan likes this.
  24. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    14,074
    11,142
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    I feel like I'm open firing squad also some times for starting a thread. There's certainly a level of anxiety and dread that goes into it at times.

    Most of the examples you gave, if they were from me I apologize and I am embarrassed truly, are inappropriate. Whether you put in 3-4 hours of effort or didn't. They are undeserving of being taken seriously. I would have a very difficult time ignoring those and not responding in a civil manner myself.

    You're right you never said those things. But, you strongly suggest those things with your language.

    When all you have to go by is previous post history and words how else do you take this?

    "I didn't spend hours upon hours rewatching every game multiple times or watching every snap...."
    "I'm the one doing tons of research on the matter...."

    I'm sorry, but that comes off very condescending. You might not consciously try to do that, but it doesn't come off that way.

    I'll admit, just going back briefly and looking, I don't read all the responses that have caused an emotional retort. And I'm sorry for generalizing you as the main culprit in many of these ordeals. Because, I've got to assume that there was a deluge of trash in the middle there that may have created a tipping point, sometimes from me myself. I have a strong tendency to reply and "single you out" by responding to your posts. This isn't done intentionally, but I think it's a result of you bring up some valid arguments that I have a strong disagreement to, the history of quarrels between you and I, and the subject matter.

    In reference to the exact example of my thread hijacking, I'm sorry if you felt that way. I remember that thread well and the subsequent argument. I probably laced that with some verbal jab and emotional laced tirades, which hid my actual feeling. That was that there was an inordinate amount of Henne threads at the time, it was an debate held ad nauseum, and for me I grew tiresome of seeing the many different threads you'd started on the subject. However, I didn't bring it to the table like that. Had I, things may have been different. But, I bring it up because it's important. That's not "crapping" on your thread. That's me giving a feeling. Just like it's your opinion and right to start throse threads and make the entailing response that's almost automatic to expect, "well, then you don't have to respond", which again is very valid. But, I think it's important to recognize that it's OK for someone to have a short and sweet different opinion and it still be held with respect. My actual response, if laced with what I said above, shouldn't have been taken well because it was a sarcastic attempt to verbally jab you. Again, I don't remember the exact post, but I'll go ahead and assume that it was.

    I think if you lose respect for the fact people thank/fist pump posts, you'll find there won't be many people to befriend here. Personally, and you're free to do as you like, that doesn't offend me that someone thanks something that I might have felt offended me. Maybe it was funny. Maybe it was an accident. Maybe they, like we have at times, not read everything that brought us to that point and saw that alone.

    I disapprove of a lot of things. Whether it's a thread, reply, whatever, that's OK. That's not showing lack of respect, that's showing a difference in opinion. So, if that's something you believe shows lack of respect, you're going to have a difficult time handling criticism and difference of opinoin.

    I think if we delved into the many occasions that YOU AND I insulted our opinions (whether opening post or reply, it doesn't really mean a hill of beans), we'd have a thread as long as some of Flipper's Finest. It needs to stop and I'll certainly make an attempt to be a better member and stop it.
     
  25. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

    7,433
    3,637
    113
    Dec 21, 2007
    Cleveland, OH
    One thing that drives me insane about the Henne debate is that a narrative has formed that we are a decent QB away from the Super Bowl. That our only hole on the 53 man roster is Chad Henne and he is the one thing holding us back.

    He may be one of, if not THE largest thing holding us back - but any discussion of the running game or Sparano's gameplans or our lack of TEs immediately comes back to Henne.

    I get that they are all related, but it seems that there are a lot of issues with this team that would make great discussion points (our o-line, for example), that never get brought up because they aren't Henne-enough.
     
    ToddsPhins and rdhstlr23 like this.
  26. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    14,074
    11,142
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    I think this is great for a general introspection here. Absolutely nothing wrong with this post. You support Henne. Thanks and welcome to the board, hope you enjoy it.

    What if we flipped this a little?

    What if it was:

    "I'm not reading all of that...But I don't support Henne"?

    Would it have gone overlooked, because it's a "negative" response to a player? Would it have been viewed as a lack of effort/lack of substance etc. thus not as meaningful as any other opinion?

    In this case, he has a positive outlook on Henne, the Dolphins, so most of us just overlook it as cool. However, I think if the opposite was the case, or this was posted in some other threads, it would have been completely trashed when the only difference is literally one word.
     
    RGF likes this.
  27. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    14,074
    11,142
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    DJ, as embarrassing as it is to admit this, I think I do a poor job in general of giving him any credit for anything. It needs to stop, and it isn't fair. I've done a poor job responding to the man rather than the substance of his posts. You are right, he does deserve more credit, and more than me in this case.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  28. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,009
    9,844
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Alexandria, VA
    In regards to people being hurt in responses to lengthy posts -

    I'm not sure the exact threads in question, but I do remember several which cherry picked stats for the purpose of making Chad Henne appear to be a better QB than he actually is. I have no doubt that it took a long time to compile the information. But that doesn't mean I have to respect the practice of warping stats to paint a picture that doesn't exist in reality.

    I do apologize if my response to that thread offended you, Todd. I probably could have said it a nicer way, but my belief stands. I earn my living as a statistician, so I tend to become very annoyed by threads containing biased, cherry picked numbers.
     
  29. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

    1,333
    457
    0
    Aug 4, 2008
    The quality of the post is the standard not the amount of time or effort put into it. The quality must stand on it's own.
     
  30. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member


    Thats a GREAT point...GREAT. We all know there are a few who just like to let it fly ....thats gonna happen. So...great point in just taking it with a grain of salt and let the few not detract the majority of very good discussion.
     
  31. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member


    So....

    I start Statistics next week, Im gonna be buggin you with questions at some point...lol
     
  32. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

    7,612
    1,578
    0
    Oct 11, 2010
    Finishing 7-9, 0-3, and missing the playoffs is a TEAM fault. To place all or even most of that on Henne is what the OP is talking about. He has more INT's than TD's, but do you bother to look at the situation he's played in? The types of receivers he's had? The plays being called? The running game? etc etc etc.


    Look, Henne may suck. He may be out of the league in a few years. However, how can anyone objectively say that Henne is or isn't a starter in this league at this point? He's got the arm. He's not dumb. Watch him from year on eto year two. That's a different guy out there. I'm not sure who was telling him what but they were telling him wrong. Hopefully this season, with a few weapons, a year with Marshall under his belt, better play calling etc etc he'll show what he is...or isn't.
     
  33. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    7,684
    3,323
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Ohio
    well I will say first I am not a stats guy so I generally dont read them. But IMO this is teh exact thing that causes problems, you dont agree or interpret or have other stats so your opinion is fact and the poster is automatically wrong. That is the implied tone. That will get response very quickly. You may not agree with what the poster is trying to say, you may vehemently disagree, but you are not right just cause you say you are. That is what I think the issue is, people will say no you are worng and the others are supposed to say ok you said so so I must be. People take stats and interpet them how they see it, they may prove to be wrong or right, the stats are facts, what they mean are up for interpretation and people will always interpret diff. But when you use absolutes, you negate someones opinion. that will cause response no matter which side you fall.

    Of course you think you are right, (not talking about a single person, using you to represent any poster) you developed your own belief, if you bow to someone elses opinion then you really didnt have conviction on your position. But in the end it is still opinion and projection and not fact so how things and rebuttals are worded would go along way.

    Listening to Torreta show and had to turn it off, too many people think they know it all. it is sickening to listen to people act like they know everything.

    Torretta himself pissed me off. Yes henne made a boneheaded decision, but he made good decisions and he looked more confident. but definitely needs to progress IMO. But how do you make excuses for Moore last year stinking then not even consider any factor in henne not progressing? At least explain how it is diff noyt just say I am torretta and i said so. I get you played the position, sucked in teh nfl but good at UM, so you do know the position but it doesnt make sense to make excuses for why Moore sucked last year and then not say why it was diff then Henne. Henne had some mitigating factors last year, yes bad decison, head scratching decisions, but he had a bad OC, a system that didnt fit, no playmakers. so I just dont get it

    Anyway it just need to letit play out and remember that we ar discussing opinions and realize absolutes dismiss opinions act post accordingly, dont have to agree, but debate dont dismiss.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  34. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,251
    22,084
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    I would suggest using the report button if this is the case. This forum has a TOS. Nobody should making personal attacks or insulting anyone. That is not acceptable here.
     
  35. PhinsPhan23

    PhinsPhan23 New Member

    206
    104
    0
    Nov 4, 2010
    Here's my attempt at objectivity:

    Henne's strengths
    -
    Strong Arm
    - Quick Release

    Henne's weaknesses
    - Poor pocket awareness
    - Poor decision making at times
    - Not elusive

    Honestly, he has physical tools that are needed to be an elite QB, but he is lacking in areas that are also needed.

    The question truly is "Can he solve those issues in his 3rd yr starting?" If not, he will not even be a startable QB (back-up material only). If he can, he has the chance to be elite. I'm not talking Brady, Manning, Marino elite, I'm talking upper echelon of current starters (top 5-15) that has the ability to lead a team to the Super Bowl.

    Now, will he solve these issues? Well unless we have a Delorian handy that also contains a flux capacitor, nobody will truly know. You can hypothesize all you want "most QBs can't solve decision making issues!" or "QBs have made decision making improvements as they have grown", but nobody truly knows. That's why this was such a tough off-season for the FO. They just don't know and need to see another year - Pass or Fail!
     
  36. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    14,074
    11,142
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    My actual stance on Henne and the QB position?

    I don't think the QB position is a strength on this team. I think there were upgradeable options via FA & Trade, but because of the lockout, it would have made it very difficult for any QB to come into this situation and excel more than the potential of Chad Henne. In the end, I think the correct decision was made (since no QB was drafted) to keep Chad Henne as the starter and give it your best go at it. I think Ireland & Sparano did go through a lot of different options and scenarios before realizing Henne was their best option. I mean, Sparano still continues to use the words "right now".

    What I thought about him in his past doesn't really matter at this point. It's clear that this year will be his measuring stick. He will be evaluated on his personal play and how well the team performs. Whether that's fair or unfair, it's the reality. Because of the team fails to win, Tony Sparano is probably out and Henne along with him.

    I think he's fortunate to have a really deep and talented WR corp. He's got an offensive line that is very good at protecting the QB. He's got some play-makers coming out of the backfield. Is the running game improved? Do we have the RB's capable of showing an improved run blocking OLine? Those are big questions. Positive answers to those will go along way in helping Chad be more successful. Is this an offense that's better suited to his abilities?

    I don't think you're ever going to go into a season with everything going to way of the QB. That's what good QB's do, they make with what they've got and still find ways to get the offense to score more points than the other team. We'll also find that some of those "knowns" could fly by the wayside also. Like the running game disappearing last year. But, again, you've got to be prepared to lift your team up in the way of things not going your way.
     
  37. CD13

    CD13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    2,842
    1,589
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    Vestal, NY
    The opinons, whether positive or negative, right or wrong, will always be very strong, maybe so strong that they are subjective. His success is needed for us to be a playoff team, with a potential for super bowl, his failure is needed to move on to another QB project, maybe even a top draft pick. So those not in his camp, aren't necessarily cheering for his demise, or Miami's failure, but are kind of hoping for a bad record/showing by him as they have made their mind up that he is not the one. Those of us, like myself, that are just hoping, maybe delusionally, that we will make the playoffs and do well, know it depends on Henne taking the next step - so we defend him, perhaps to the extreme. Sad thing is, we will probably finish 8-8, and we'll be stuck in the middle again.
     
  38. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    14,074
    11,142
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    Ah, but a new season arises and one can only hope for great success for the Fins.
     
  39. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    And that's why I've lost respect for you, Monster. I don't care if you disagree with me, and I don't care if you don't like my threads. I also could care less if you throw out an occasional jab at me in response to a normal post I make; heck, I might even laugh at it myself.

    HOWEVER, when it's quite apparent that a member has spent considerable time creating an opening post and you pop off with something degrading (even taking the time to look up a #$%#@#$ monkey with glasses) while at the same time not even having the decency to first acknowledge the effort put into the OP, then I think that shows zero lack of class..... and it's crap like this that reduces a forum's quality and discourages posters like myself from wanting to spend the time and effort on future threads.

    Again, I'm not AT ALL saying this is about me wanting credit and attention for the work that I put in, and it's not a "hey look at me look at me" type 'a deal. It's just simple common courtesy b/c nobody likes any hard work they do to be shat on. And please don't confuse "shat on" with "criticized".

    And your response to all this (that you "stand by" your original shatting) only further shows how classless you are.
     
  40. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,009
    9,844
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Alexandria, VA
    I apologized if I offended you later in the thread, but I guess you didn't accept that. So you think I'm classless and have no respect for me. I'll live.

    We all take crap when we post threads. We take more crap when our arguments are full of holes. So I suggest if you can't take criticism, stop posting threads or try to be more objective. Otherwise, carry on. I won't say a thing, as I don't want to be responsible for making grown men cry.
     
  41. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    I completely agree. The same amount of respect SHOULD be given to any response, but that's simply not the case, and I believe it's unlikely we'll ever see that happen. But that doesn't mean members cant at least curb this type of behavior toward an opening post, especially when it's obvious the person put an effort into the OP...... b/c without opening posts, there is no topic for discussion; there is no forum.

    During the middle of a thread, conservation's already been started, and it's possible for someone to provoke someone else and so on and so on. However, responses to an opening post had nothing to provoke them other than the opening post itself. So in that regard, people should be able to show a little more restrain and tact in their response to the thread. If members disagree with an opening post that doesn't attack anyone, then there should be no reason AT ALL to shat on the opening poster. NONE. There's just no excuse for it. I'm not saying that b/c I create a lot of threads and feel like I deserve some kind of special treatment; I'm saying that b/c it should be one of the easiest rules to follow in a forum. I don't care who the opening poster is (it could be someone I'm not fond of), I still feel it's classless to crap on their efforts, b/c I, myself, don't want to see people like DJ being discouraged from starting threads solely b/c some members feel the need to belittle his without provocation.

    Receiving insults & so forth to a 2 line post in the middle of a thread don't really deter you from ever wanting to post again. The affect isn't so damaging. Insults to opening posts, however, have a much harsher affect.
     

Share This Page