1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Jason Sanders problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DolPhinPhan7, Sep 18, 2023.

  1. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

    756
    443
    63
    Apr 26, 2012
    So we really have to be within the 30 yard line before feeling good about being in FG range nowadays.

    If it's 4th and 10 on the 35 yard line. I'd rather the Dolphins go for it.

    I had no confidence in Sanders making that 4th quarter FG.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2023
    Tuanon4Life likes this.
  2. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

    716
    793
    93
    Dec 23, 2022
    They really should bring in another kicker. Sanders has been garbage ever since he got his big contract. Some of you might remember Marino's last legit shot at a Super Bowl in 95 when he got them in field goal range with less than one minute on the clock only to lose on a missed field goal. Out of the playoffs as SD goes on to the Super Bowl. History tends to repeat itself so let's cut this guy today and move on.
     
  3. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

    756
    443
    63
    Apr 26, 2012
    Pete Stoyanovich :angry:
     
  4. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

    2,049
    1,725
    113
    Sep 29, 2016

    I think I blocked that from my memory until I saw the name Stoyanovich and then it all came back. In terms of this team, they need to see who’s out there that can be more reliable. If Sanders hits that kick last night the game would have been all but over.

    Oh, and get a center.
     
    resnor likes this.
  5. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,749
    10,249
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Sanders missing the 49 yard attempt is a problem.

    Sanders kick being block by the unconventional rush by a defender running down the LOS is NOT on Sanders.

    I expect other teams will start exploring that method of giving a defender a head start to block kicks.
     
  6. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

    1,435
    1,219
    113
    Dec 29, 2013
    It was 55 yards which can't be much better than 50/50 on average
     
  7. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

    756
    443
    63
    Apr 26, 2012
    The Pats kicker made a 49 yarder.
     
    resnor likes this.
  8. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

    716
    793
    93
    Dec 23, 2022
    They threw up Sanders stats from 50+ and it was 4/12 before the missed kick. He's also had problems missing extra points going back to last season. He needs to go.
     
    resnor likes this.
  9. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    He's definitely becoming a liability. It's going to cost them a game eventually and then they'll have no choice.
     
    resnor likes this.
  10. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

    3,797
    2,900
    113
    Oct 26, 2009
    Bklyn
    This and the snapping issue are quickly becoming the OH BOYs about this team.
     
    resnor likes this.
  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,299
    9,863
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Pete was pretty damn good for awhile, wasn't he?
     
  12. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

    716
    793
    93
    Dec 23, 2022
    Yea I loved him until he blew that kick.
     
    resnor likes this.
  13. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,694
    3,739
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    This problem is a crocodile problem. A crocodile problem refers to the fact that crocodiles are territorial so if you remove one croc another moves into the same spot, and the one who moves in might be worse than the one that's already there.

    Sanders is in the zone of not being good enough, but better than most of the available replacements.
     
    resnor and texanphinatic like this.
  14. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

    11,031
    4,417
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Me personally, I'd be keeping an eye on Harrison Mevis for the rest of the Mizzou's season.
     
  15. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,749
    10,249
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Please try and understand I’m NOT defending Sanders. I’m really truly not. I’ve watched football for 50 years. That’s a lot of games I’ve watched.

    The record for the longest FG was 63 yards by Tom Dempsey (who had only half of a foot). That record stood for over 40 years!

    When kickers are being asked to kick FGs from 50 yards and beyond, that’s a pretty tall order seeing how you’re approaching record distances. Of course the odds of making the kick drop…just the odds of a quarterback completing a 50 yard pass every time they’re on the field.

    I just think that too much is expected from kickers…that a 50+yard FG should be a gimme. Maybe if offenses would actually produce, there would be less
    blame placed on the loneliest position on the team.
     
    resnor likes this.
  16. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

    3,143
    2,315
    113
    Sep 13, 2011
    Sanders had one season where he was just automatic every time he attempted basically anything. I think it was 2020, the man was just on fire. There were times when he was our best offensive player. I don't know what happened to him, but he developed a yips issue with extra points and I find myself holding my breath nowadays whenever he attempts a field goal from basically anywhere at this point. 40 yarders used to be a chip-shot for him and now he's become a major liability. He should be on thin ice at this point. He won't last 8 games if it continues.
     
    resnor likes this.
  17. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,856
    4,814
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    This - I'm just not sure who else is around. Robbie Gould is lurking but wants to stay in the midwest for family. Brett Maher has a big leg, but that one horrendous night in Dallas is looming large for many I think. I'd maybe see if Arizona would trade Prater for like a 2025 seventh or something.
     
  18. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,656
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Things have changed over time. Kickers have gotten a lot better. In 1990 they had a 36% success rate for 50+ yard FGs, while in the 2000's it was around 55%. Last year it was 69%. Not only that, teams are trying more 50+ yard FGs. In 1990 there were 78 such attempts. In 2010 there were 109 such attempts. In 2022 it shot way up to 224!!

    So it's really important nowadays to have a kicker that can make 50+ yarders at least 70% of the time.
     
    Silverphin likes this.
  19. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    I think back then the problem was that 50+ yards was also approaching a kickers limit on how far they could actually kick it. That isn’t the case now as it’s obvious kickers coming through have much stronger legs, so 55 yards isn’t them having to give it absolutely everything just to get the ball there.

    50+ yard field goals are far more common now, when your kicker is only making 33% of them that is a problem that is going to bite you in the *** at some point.
     
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,299
    9,863
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Completely agree. I wonder how many people who criticize kickers have ever even attempted a short kick.

    It's hard.

    Kicker is probably the most difficult position. You might get a handful of kicks in a game, all of them important because if you miss, most fans are going to blame you, and it's not like you got plenty of attempts to be in the zone.
     
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,299
    9,863
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I think it's ludicrous to expect kickers to average a MINIMUM of 7/10 on 50+ yard kicks.

    Again this isn't a video games.
     
  22. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

    716
    793
    93
    Dec 23, 2022
    The past two seasons (2021 - 2022) Sanders has been 2/6 from 50+ and has also had problems with extra points. Three missed extra points last season and one already this season. He's a huge liability for the team.
     
    resnor likes this.
  23. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,656
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Sometimes I can't tell if you have any sense of reality. You're saying that it's ludicrous to expect someone to be AVERAGE or better?? What kind of position is that?? Just pure and unvarnished stupidity!! Average is by definition the mathematical expectation! You should EXPECT a QB to at least be average, no? Why not kickers. Geez.

    Among the 24 kickers that had 5 or more 50+ yard FG attempts in 2022, 13 out of 24 (54%) had 70% or better success rate. And when you combine all 50+ FG attempts and successes in 2022, it's also ~70%. Yes, that is the expectation today.

    Unbelievable positions you sometimes take: "can't expect someone to be at least average" LOLOL
     
  24. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    I think we may have forgotten what a good kicker looks like. Sanders was 8/9 from 50+ yards in 2020.

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/play.../table/kicking/sort/fieldGoalsMade50/dir/desc

    By my quick count there are around 13 kickers last year who were at least 70% from 50+ yards and had at least 5 attempts. There are probably at least another 3 who were better than 60%. The only guy worse than Sanders (who was 2/6) was Ryan Succop (2/7) who is currently unemployed.
     
    Tuanon4Life likes this.
  25. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,749
    10,249
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Sorry guys, I often disagree with Resnor but this is one of those times he and I are like minded.

    And I look at it like this…if you have to rely on your kicker to score a measly 3 points to win a game, then you have BIGGER problems than whether or not he’s gonna miss that 55+ yard FG.
     
  26. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    3,007
    2,450
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    He was good until he got a new contract, we've also changed holders on him almost every year since then. Las time he was good was with Haack as his holder, pre contract extension. I don't blam him for missing those two against the Pat's, though, that was more a great kick blocking scheme implemented by the Pats.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  27. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

    716
    793
    93
    Dec 23, 2022
    You've never heard of Ray Finkle?
     
  28. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,656
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Many big games are won that way. You don’t build championship teams by saying it’s ludicrous to expect at least average level performance at a position that can win you tight games!! Seriously, what kind of stance is that??

    Thankfully this is just a message board and no crazy viewpoint like that pervades the NFL. I guarantee you Sanders will be replaced if he doesn’t get closer to league average. It’s a ticking time bomb, though maybe we’re forced to wait till offseason. And as far as who to replace him with, you simply give someone else a try. Keep trying till you find someone better.
     
  29. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,694
    3,739
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    It used to be that you could accept a kicker with a lower than average FG% if they gave you a field position advantage on kickoffs. With the new kick off rules there seems to be little advantage in being great at kickoffs and any field position advantage is now credited to the coverage unit not the kicker.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2023
  30. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

    2,049
    1,725
    113
    Sep 29, 2016
    Until/unless the NFL does away with points scored in the kicking game, teams will rely on their kickers to score a “measly” three points at various points during games - at the end of a half (like we had just last week), or to get something out of a stalled drive, or yes, to win a game. Kickers have won hundreds of games in the NFL, and teams should be able to expect at least average performance from that position.
     
    Springveldt and texanphinatic like this.
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,299
    9,863
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Once again, violating the ToS.

    Now, the stat about "average" only matters if you show the actual numbers. How many of the starting kickers attempted 50+ yarders, for example? Just saying the average is X doesn't mean anything, in and of itself. For a stats guy, it's really amazing how you don't seem to care about anything but the number, and don't seem to understand that three number isn't necessarily telling you what you think it's telling you. It might be, it might not be.

    Yes, I think it's ridiculous to expecta kicker to have a better average from 50+ yards than pretty much anything else tracked in the NFL.
     
  32. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,656
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    You didn't read my post again. This is becoming an insulting posting style on your part. I actually gave you sufficient stats to make the argument both from an overall average point of view as well as from the point of view of kickers that kick a sufficient number of 50+ yard FGs. Either way, the result is the same: you're wrong.

    Second, that last sentence of yours is provably wrong even if you ONLY look at FG success rates. Just look at success rates for shorter distances. Some are in excess of 95% success! 70% success for 50+ yard FGs is really low in comparison.

    Third, let the mods decide what a ToS violation is. I've many times called out utterly stupid arguments for what they are, and rightfully that's never been a ToS violation worthy of a ban regardless of some technical interpretation of the ToS. You can't insist 2+2=3 and claim people should respect your view and not call it utterly stupid. It reminds me of your view that there's no scientific evidence the Earth is NOT flat. According to you, all claims the Earth isn't flat are just an appeal to authority. lol
    https://thephins.com/threads/ryan-tannehill.94693/page-147#post-3251341
    Sorry resnor, when you make arguments like that (or the most recent one) I'll call you out for it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2023

Share This Page