The Jeff Ireland Discussion Thread

Question to everyone who wants Ireland fired.

Let's assume he survives this season regardless of what our final record may be, and the team takes great strides next season making the playoffs. Let's even assume we win a wild card game. Would you be happy to be proven wrong in this instance or would you still want him fired for some reason.

 

Henry Kissinger won a Nobel Peace Prize too, and going for shock value on these kind of things is just gauche at this point.

 

I don't really care about Ireland one way or the other - I just want the franchise to start becoming relevant again - but I would want to see sustained success over the course of 3 to 4 seasons. The rare wildcard birth every 5 to 6 years just isn't going to cut it for me at this point.

 

I respect mostly everybody's (with a SELECT few) opinions on this board, even if I disagree with them.
Some posters are passionate, or as you call it "enthusiastic" (Sect, FinD) they believe in whs they write and they try to make their points without "trolling" (lol for the most part)
Some may get sensitive to their boldness, but this is the Internet. People are not on here to appeal to each other's feelings.
Hell, in my opinion CK is one of (if not THE) most informed and knowledgable guys on the board, and I've always felt that way going back to FH, even when I don't agree with him. However to some he comes of as brash or know it all. By all means he isn't (not in my eyes at least) but he truly doesn't give two ****s of how people see him. That's just the way some people are. You don't have to cater to everybody, or anybody for that matter. I've been coming to these boards for nearly 10 years for information and opinions, and I've got plenty of those over the years.

 

So what you're saying is he'll still be a billionaire?

 

If I win the power ball I will give you 50 million dollars.

 

There are pretty disparate elements involved. That would probably satisfy the knee-jerk "THIS SUCKS" element, but the amateur draftologists with professional aspirations? Probably not.

 

While I don't think anyone has gone over the line, let's try to refrain from the commentary on other posters and continue to discuss the merits of the continued employment of Jeff Ireland.

Or, for a refreshing change of pace, let's talk about our chances of winning on Sunday and what we need to do to fix the issues we saw on Sunday.

 

Considering our current team's quality level of young, ascending talent, an abundance of 2013 draft picks, and $60 million in 2013 cap space, I'd say there's a very good chance we become a playoff team next year.

Would anyone disagree?

 

So did Yasser Arafat.

It's never gauche if you have a good hand to play. Namely that Ireland is bad at his job.

 

Current quality level of talent? The talent is so weak and thin on this team, we don't even bother fielding 53 men!!!


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Unless Matt Moore starts, this discussion is meaningless, when you add a Rook Qb with a high pick, he is going to play, add a new HC who will need players to fit his systems, but has to use Sparano's players, some people apparently do not know much about how pro football works.

 

Good example, active gameday roster is 45 men.

 

We're only allowed to field 45 .

 

I'm sure you've posted it somewhere else but would you mind posting again, where the holes are on the roster?

 

I know Sparano wasn't a good HC. I know this because he is a good OC and let Henning cost us 2-3 wins a year.

If we had those wins, we're looking at 8-8s & 9-6s and there'd be no Jeff Ireland threads...that's with all the same personnel moves.

We are not talentless, that is just complete and utter bull **** fed by frustration, due in equal parts of years of nothing and stunted personal emotional growth...and probably some beer. A team does not simply go 0-7 then 6-3 and the problem be talent more than coaching.

 

But it seemed to me that Ireland begrudgingly released Gates b/c it was more about what Philbin wanted. IMO too often posters don't give the head coach enough credit/criticism for what happens with his team. For instance, it seems like fans dismissed Sparano for being nothing more than a guy who was paid to pump his fists after field goals, when in fact he was involved in decisions as it was his team. Even Dan Henning was involved in the decision making process when it related to his offense; he & Sparano were involved with scouting and signing off on Henne. The organization didn't fire Sparano for no good reason; he was a terrible head coach, a drastic set back, and he couldn't get wins from this team despite having enough talent to do so, especially when the team loses 5, 4th quarter leads in 1 season but can go an 9 game stretch where they seem like one of the league's stronger teams.

 

I hope you know this constitutes a contract between us.

 

Booorrrriiinnnngggg!!!!!

 

-Tannehill will always be a liability until he proves otherwise
-Have to play the youngsters on the right side of the OL
-Marshall did okay, not great, not bad
-Clemons did struggle, how much of that is a new scheme and how much is his ability is an unknown

We do have weapons, if one bothers to pay attention THill threw a total of 6 balls over 10 yds, how do you expect big plays if you do not throw a bit deeper down the field?

I do chuckle a bit over the "Draft a Qb with a #1 pick!!!" crowd now whining about a lack of weaponry..heard this was all Henne needed to turn the corner..league does not work like that..no matter.

 

Then it's understandable that we disagree on the current situation and Ireland b/c I genuinely feel we have a very good, ascending defense as well as a promising future offense outside of the need for 2 receiver upgrades. The new offensive scheme is a huge plus in its own right IMO, and I believe it's still significantly in its infancy stage [regarding design complexity] b/c of how new it is to the team. Tannehill & Philbin proving to be the real deal is what will make or break us IMO b/c if they are, then they'll make a lot of our needs seem much less significant in nature.

$60 million + 5 top 75 picks can do a lot of damage toward addressing our needs.... and then some IMHO.

 

Thx for that.

100% agree that WR is an abomination, I saw that first hand when I went to training camp.

I don't think its fair to call Marshall a liability, he's been solid for several years as a CB/FS. He's only played one game here and he wasn't beaten for any big plays in that one game. Ditto for Fasano and Clay at TE and Clemons/Jones at safety. I'm not saying we have studs at those spots but we don't have scrubs either. IMO by the end of the year we should have a pretty good idea of what the strengths and weaknesses are and we should be in a pretty good position to address whatever positions need addressing.

I agree w you on Tannehill also. It'll be years before we know whether he's the answer or not and getting him all the help we can should be priority 1 IMO.

 

Just b/c much of our talent is still young and developing I wouldn't call it weak and thin by a long shot IMHO, and that's not the homer fan in me speaking either.

 

Strong and deep then?

 

Disagree about the Wr's

Here is why, even if we drafted a Wr with a high pick, there is as much likely hood that they are a bust as they are a star, this is where the draft fetish leads folks astray, if one looks at skillsets etc it is as likely that a UDFA or even late rd pick is a stud Wr as a high pick Wr becomes one.

This is the lesson from Ted Ginn, DBess outplayed him from 08 onwards, one was a high pick, the other a UDFA.

 

Fair points.

IMHO Rashad Jones has flashed some nice upside and has shown continued improvement from his shaky rookie year. Clemons isn't a playmaker but at least he's not a tremendous liability. The coverage unit will be just fine with either another quality corner added OR a decent corner paired with an upgrade at FS. Either option will be ok IMO.... but I think we have enough firepower to address both (FS & #2 corner), which would give us not only an upgrade at FS but great depth at the position, too. Ditto for cornerback, with an upgrade at #2 moving Marshall to #3 where he becomes an asset.

The rest of the stuff you mentioned are potential question marks, but at the same time they're also potential solutions b/c those players are still developing, which we all know could take a couple years.

 

We have an alarming amount of players who would not make most rosters. We got guys who never developed into what they needed to be to play in this league..a lot of those guys. The sad reality hit home when I realized the Jets TEs and WRs are WAY better than ours. You know how it pains me to say this? Let alone their DBs. 52 guys. We knew months ago we were dead in the water at WR. We draft a 6th rounder and cut him. It's just bad. I fear for Tannehill. That's my #1 concern. Getting this kid destroyed.


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WR & CB > draft picks or draft picks > WR & CB ?

 

Unfortunately we have a salary cap to work within, and we also have draft picks to use up.... and I disagree wholeheartedly about late round & UDFA receivers having as much "stud" potential as 1st or 2nd rounders. The bottom line is---- if you sign a guy like Meachem for $25 million, then there's no chance of us signing a true impact receiver next year like Wallace, Jennings, or Bowe. Hence the 2nd round, $1 million per year receiver is the smarter route b/c it still allows us to go after the aforementioned 3.

 

Sure they do, the coin of the realm in player development is opportunity, if one looks at the physical stuff, or even college career, these guys all come in at about the same level, what they do with opportunites is a different matter altogether.

They also have to stay healthy, this is what separates Hartline from Bess.

 

Respectfully, leading the league in dead cap space doesn't help.


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Good Point.

Mike Wallace/Dwayne Bowe is tempting but they'll cost 2 premium picks and 8-10 mil/ season whereas if we wait till the off season we can get them for the same price w/o giving up any draft picks or use those draft picks on college prospects for 1/8th of the price.

 

Jesus christ

 

I'm not sure how you come to this?

Our LT is the best in the league.
Our Center isn't too far behind him.
Within 3 years Martin will most likely ascend to being a top 5 RT.
Incognito would start for half the league.
Our 1st round QB is franchise material.
Our TE trio is not the worst in football, and their upside is quite good.
Our RB group is quite strong and also shows promise for the future.
Our FB looks to be a real find.
Davonne Bess would be the starting slot receiver for 70% of the league if not more.
Brian Hartline would be the starting #3 receiver for much of the league, and as a #4 he'd be one of the best.
Rishard Matthews has the talent to become a quality contributor.

Our Dline is one of the league's best. It's good enough that we could afford to let a backup walk to start in StLouis.
We boast one of the league's top pass rushers.
We boast one of the league's premiere run stuffers (Soliai).
We also have one of the league's better pass rushing DTs (Starks, a past Pro Bowler)
The linebacking corps is certainly above average.
We have one of the few blue or red chip cornerbacks (Sean Smith) with the talent & newly acquired desire to be great.
Rashad Jones would start for a lot of teams, and he's only getting better.
Clemons would also start for a handful of teams.
Richard Marshall was Zona's defensive MVP amidst a team of highly talented defenders.

What it seems you might not be accounting for is what happens to WR, CB, S, and possibly G when they're addressed with $60 million FA money and any of our numerous draft picks, b/c adding a new starter not only makes us better at the starting position, but it also makes us better at that position's depth by moving our current starters to a backup role. Brian Hartline as a #1 or #2 isn't very good, but having Hartline as a #3 or #4 [after hypothetically adding a premium target like Jenning, Wallace, or Bowe] makes him an asset. Ditto goes for Clemons becoming the backup FS and Marshall being relegated to nickel corner.



PS: I fear for Tannehill too and can only assume we have bigger plans for the future that prevented us from adding priced FAs this year. I strongly agree with your greatest concern though------ that we badly need some offensive playmakers at WR, as well as need our young ones at TE to develop and step up.

 

It'll help next year when that cap space rises from the dead .