The major offensive failure is with Bill Lazor, not Ryan Tannehill
183 replies
DisgustipatesubscriberOPBill Lazor's job first and foremost was to install a system to fit the players on the field. A large portion of his hiring was centered around his coaching of a related offensive tree, and his work with quarterbacks, and he's failed in both regards.
Even if Ryan Tannehill is a failed prospect that will have to be replaced, Lazor's job is to get the most out of him. He's totally failed in that regard, and instead we've got a player who is regressing at a critical part of his career. We're watching Ryan Tannehill handle multiple aspects of his job markedly worse than he did with the Dolphins in the past, and that's on Lazor.
For some reason, we've tossed wholesale a wide variety of passing concepts, route combinations, and plays that worked well in the past. If they were things that violated the orthodoxy of the offensive system we chose to install, that'd be one thing, but they're not. The out-breaking routes that Tannehill excelled at are de-emphasized. Bread and butter WCO concepts that shouldn't really be off the table for schematic reasons are missing. Charles Clay and Brian Hartline are missing in action.
Ryan Tannehill is struggling with his new footwork. The receivers are struggling to properly run there routes. The quarterback and receivers are quite frequently having issues where they're both not making the right reads. Those are teaching issues, and that buck ultimately stops with Lazor on that. He's essentially the quarterbacks coach, with the Dolphins choosing to retain Zac Taylor, whose qualifications are based more on marriage than skill.
How do we know the issue isn't that Ryan Tannehill has been stretched too far beyond his Texas A&M/Mike Sherman comfort zone?
Deerless DicesubscriberStill trying to wrap my head around why Lamar Miller only rushed 15 times when he was ripping off 7 yards a clip. Lazor's inexperience is showing, and he needs to pull his head out of his rear ASAP.
Fin-OmenalNew MemberBill Lazor is the reason our QB has the awareness of a toddler?
Alex44New MemberSooo we shouldn't change his poor footwork because he may struggle at first and regress? I don't get it. I don't get any of this blame on Lazor when receivers are dropping passes, Tannehill is missing open guys, and not to mention when Tannehill has a run/pass option on every play and only gives his back who is gashing the defense 15 carries.
On the draft Quentin Rollins bandwagon.
"Deerless Dice wrote:
Still trying to wrap my head around why Lamar Miller only rushed 15 times when he was ripping off 7 yards a clip. Lazor's inexperience is showing, and he needs to pull his head out of his rear ASAP.
That might be because from the time the Chiefs went up 14-0 in the second quarter, they hovered right around being about 70% likely to win the game for nearly the remainder of the game. Being only about 30% likely to win will likely make a coordinator focus on the type of offensive play that stands to move the team down the field more quickly.
Serpico Jonesforum_veteranAll I know is this might be the worst offense I have ever seen in Miami, it truly is sickening to watch this team try to pass the football.
Disgustipatesubscriber"Dolphans Unite! wrote:
How do we know the issue isn't that Ryan Tannehill has been stretched too far beyond his Texas A&M/Mike Sherman comfort zone?
Even if he is, it's Lazor's job to identify it and compensate. Keeping a lot of familiar Mike Sherman passing concepts was an option totally on the table. Even if he would not adequate progress moving forward your job is to come up with viable quarterback play.
We had that with Tannehill previously, we don't seem to now.
brandon27subscriberExactly what I've been saying in alot of places today. Lazor is this place's new golden boy for now, but this post sums up exactly what I've been left wondering through 3 games. Where's the offense tailored to our QB? Where's the involvement of the players he's comfortable with. Where's the routes he's comfortable throwing. Why are we yet again, under Joe Philbin trying to fit square pegs, into round holes. Is this staff (referring to co-ordinators and the head coach) ever going to get outside their own comfort zones, and come up with a system that fits the players strengths and weaknesses.
Either be completely able to change the player to work in your system, or take the concepts of your system, and apply them to said player's strengths and weaknesses. To me, that's what coaching is all about. Take your idea's and concepts as the coach, and mesh them with the strengths and weaknesses of the players you have to work with. If you can't do that, then you don't deserve the position. There's times where certain players just wont work, we all get that, but most guys are coachable, and have the skills to adapt, but you have to help them.
As disappointing as Tannehill has been, I'm willing to bet without Lazor's new scheme, that clearly isn't working for anyone (not just the QB based on other players comments) had consistency remained for Ryan, we wouldn't be complaining about his so called "regression".
Almost feels like this change from sherman to Lazor at this point is a great case of the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
Where's Gibson? Where's Clay? Where's Matthews? Where's Hartline? These are the guys that Ryan is comfortable with, these are the guys the run the routes he excels at throwing. Why aren't we doing that? Why are we trying to run the passing game through Wallace? The guy he's obviously least comfortable with. I get that Sherman's idea's were antiquated, and it was time for him to go, but damn... why can we not build this offense, with these new idea's and concepts Lazor has around the strengths of the QB, rather than trying to fit the QB who may or may not be a good fit into the system? Simply because he came from Chip Kelly's offense... as a QB coach??? Similar to how Philbin came from Green Bay as the OC... who really had no control or play calling abilities??
Lazor may be the golden boy around here for most right now, but I'm with you. These problems we have right now are on him. We haven't seen a version of Ryan Tannehill this... uncomfortable before. He looks more uncomfortable this year, than he did behind that pathetic OL from last year. Thats not on him, that's on our OC failing to put in a system that evolves around what he has to work with.
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"Disgustipate wrote:
Even if he is, it's Lazor's job to identify it and compensate. Keeping a lot of familiar Mike Sherman passing concepts was an option totally on the table. Even if he would not adequate progress moving forward your job is to come up with viable quarterback play.
We had that with Tannehill previously, we don't seem to now.
But what if the Mike Sherman offense is simply not viable in today's NFL? Should you then keep part of that offense in place for the comfort of a quarterback whose ceiling in the NFL is unclear, or should you implement an offense that can work in the NFL and see what you truly have at QB?
In other words, tailoring your schemes to your players' strengths is a concept that can go only so far. You can't tailor your schemes to your players if the result is a scheme that isn't viable, for a player who also may not be viable.
CoastieMikeNew MemberTannehills horrible accuracy and weak arm isn't at the fault of Lazor, if anything I feel Lazor offensive calling is very limited because of Tannehill. Today would have been a great day to throw some long balls, but Tannehill seems to underthrow every single time.
"brandon27 wrote:
Where's Gibson? Where's Clay? Where's Matthews? Where's Hartline?
Are these guys open and is Tannehill not hitting them? Do we know?
dWreckNew Member"brandon27 wrote:
Exactly what I've been saying in alot of places today. Lazor is this place's new golden boy for now, but this post sums up exactly what I've been left wondering through 3 games. Where's the offense tailored to our QB? Where's the involvement of the players he's comfortable with. Where's the routes he's comfortable throwing. Why are we yet again, under Joe Philbin trying to fit square pegs, into round holes. Is this staff (referring to co-ordinators and the head coach) ever going to get outside their own comfort zones, and come up with a system that fits the players strengths and weaknesses.
Either be completely able to change the player to work in your system, or take the concepts of your system, and apply them to said player's strengths and weaknesses. To me, that's what coaching is all about. Take your idea's and concepts as the coach, and mesh them with the strengths and weaknesses of the players you have to work with. If you can't do that, then you don't deserve the position. There's times where certain players just wont work, we all get that, but most guys are coachable, and have the skills to adapt, but you have to help them.
As disappointing as Tannehill has been, I'm willing to bet without Lazor's new scheme, that clearly isn't working for anyone (not just the QB based on other players comments) had consistency remained for Ryan, we wouldn't be complaining about his so called "regression".
Almost feels like this change from sherman to Lazor at this point is a great case of the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
Where's Gibson? Where's Clay? Where's Matthews? Where's Hartline? These are the guys that Ryan is comfortable with, these are the guys the run the routes he excels at throwing. Why aren't we doing that? Why are we trying to run the passing game through Wallace? The guy he's obviously least comfortable with. I get that Sherman's idea's were antiquated, and it was time for him to go, but damn... why can we not build this offense, with these new idea's and concepts Lazor has around the strengths of the QB, rather than trying to fit the QB who may or may not be a good fit into the system? Simply because he came from Chip Kelly's offense... as a QB coach??? Similar to how Philbin came from Green Bay as the OC... who really had no control or play calling abilities??
Lazor may be the golden boy around here for most right now, but I'm with you. These problems we have right now are on him. We haven't seen a version of Ryan Tannehill this... uncomfortable before. He looks more uncomfortable this year, than he did behind that pathetic OL from last year. Thats not on him, that's on our OC failing to put in a system that evolves around what he has to work with.
Ehh in all fairness most of the time they either seem to be covered fairly well, or Tanny stares his laser lockdown first read and doesn't even look their way. Happens more often than we want to admit.
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Get well soon Tanny. #ThatsMyQB
Disgustipatesubscriber"Alex44 wrote:
Sooo we shouldn't change his poor footwork because he may struggle at first and regress? I don't get it. I don't get any of this blame on Lazor when receivers are dropping passes, Tannehill is missing open guys, and not to mention when Tannehill has a run/pass option on every play and only gives his back who is gashing the defense 15 carries.
If Tannehill is not learning what he has to do effectively, it's almost certainly a teaching issue. He graduated with a Biology degree and has shown a lot of aptitude in learning new physical tasks(playing multiple positions, etc.). Unless there's been some sudden unexplored work ethic issues, he's absolutely a student you should expect success from.
Tannehill missing open receivers and a sudden huge drop in accuracy is a pretty clear symptom of what I'm talking about.
You aren't supposed to 'go through your progressions' on a 3 step drop, are you? You take your drop and release the football. Timing offense. No?
emocomputerjockNew Member"Dolphans Unite! wrote:
Are these guys open and is Tannehill not hitting them? Do we know?
To the point we've got the TV replay at best there were some open options out there at times that were missed. honestly though it cant be more useful without the full tapes and time to compare to other teams
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phinswolverinesrocketsforum_veteranThey both suck. And this year, you can't blame the O-line or the running game.
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dWreckNew Member"heylookatme wrote:
You aren't supposed to 'go through your progressions' on a 3 step drop, are you? You take your drop and release the football. Timing offense. No?
You're going to make progressions if you would like to release the football, lol. atleast on most plays without an obvious lock.
The KRAKEN! Still proving doubters wrong on the weekly.
Get well soon Tanny. #ThatsMyQB
Dol-Fan Dupreeforum_veteran"Dolphans Unite! wrote:
But what if the Mike Sherman offense is simply not viable in today's NFL? Should you then keep part of that offense in place for the comfort of a quarterback whose ceiling in the NFL is unclear, or should you implement an offense that can work in the NFL and see what you truly have at QB?
In other words, tailoring your schemes to your players' strengths is a concept that can go only so far. You can't tailor your schemes to your players if the result is a scheme that isn't viable, for a player who also may not be viable.
It took the Seahawks as far as the superbowl.
Took the Broncos to the superbowl as well.
Holland is a huge upgrade over McCain
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"Disgustipate wrote:
If Tannehill is not learning what he has to do effectively, it's almost certainly a teaching issue. He graduated with a Biology degree and has shown a lot of aptitude in learning new physical tasks(playing multiple positions, etc.). Unless there's been some sudden unexplored work ethic issues, he's absolutely a student you should expect success from. Tannehill missing open receivers and a sudden huge drop in accuracy is a pretty clear symptom of what I'm talking about.
He's always been mediocre
Disgustipatesubscriber"Dolphans Unite! wrote:
But what if the Mike Sherman offense is simply not viable in today's NFL? Should you then keep part of that offense in place for the comfort of a quarterback whose ceiling in the NFL is unclear, or should you implement an offense that can work in the NFL and see what you truly have at QB?
In other words, tailoring your schemes to your players' strengths is a concept that can go only so far. You can't tailor your schemes to your players if the result is a scheme that isn't viable, for a player who also may not be viable.
I'm not sure there's an argument that Mike Sherman's offense isn't viable(or for that matter for argument's sake that you would have to retain that much of it).
Serpico Jonesforum_veteranIt also seems like Philbin is lost without Mike Sherman at his side essentially doing the coaching for him.
PhinFan1968subscriber"phinswolverinesrockets wrote:
They both suck. And this year, you can't blame the O-line or the running game.
Did you see the O line today? Pfft. Running game was great...pass pro was bad.
Brian Flores when asked about tanking: “Again, no we’re not (tanking). We’re going to try to win every game. I think that’s disrespectful to even say that.”
:rimshot:
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