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The major offensive failure is with Bill Lazor, not Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Disgustipate, Sep 21, 2014.

  1. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    I watched the Bills Chargers game and its incredible how much different an offense can look just by the QB making smart decisions. Rivers slayed the Bills mostly by just making good decisions, of course being accurate helps a lot too but he made good decisions on almost every snap.
     
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  2. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    It's year 3 guys... no more excuses. Tannehill is making the same mistakes he did year 1 and year 2 when he lacked experience... I've defended him as much as anyone, and am hoping Tannehill turns it around, I really do. He improved a lot last season amid a lot of controversy and poor supporting cast, but he just doesn't seem to be able to elevate his level of play, or excel in this new scheme, which really exposes his weaknesses. I think Sherman played to his strengths and was able to mask a lot of his weaknesses. Maybe Sherman was the better OC in that case...

    Tannehill can be an average starter, he's not Trent Dilfer, Joey Harrington, or Kyle Boller bad, but he'll have to have a strong surrounding cast around him to win. He just lacks certain intangibles and instincts that no amount of experience, snaps, and starts can give him. Sadly, the things he was knocked for in college are still here 3 years later.

    KC Joyner, who scouted him and wrote pieces back in 2012 for Football Outsiders and ESPN, studied him before the draft and basically said he'd be a tantalizing project due to his metrics, but would never advance beyond an average starter. The most damning thing written about him was that he shrinks in meaningful games and falls apart when games are on the line. In 2.3 seasons now, Tannehill has been exactly that. The dropped balls have followed him from TAM as well. Supposedly his receivers dropped over 25 balls a season 2 years of starting in college.

    Tannehill still makes the occasional "WOW" pass from time to time, but he is unable to take a game over or will it to win, or even dominate a huddle or offense... Unless, the light suddenly comes on for him, and if we're going to win with him, Lazor and Philbin are going to have to do him like Sherman did and keep the training wheels on I think.

    Anyone catch Wilson's presser after the OT win? He said something along the lines of hoping the game would go to overtime and that "I just live for those moments, to excel when the pressure is on..."

    What a cool thing to say. Now close your eyes and imagine Tannehill saying that... yeah... No, I don't see it either...
     
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  3. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    This is why I want Moore to start now. If Tannehill is somehow able to develop into the best case scenario instead of a year of misery it'll be another decade of misery and the blame game. Do not even give him the opportunity to develop into the next Jay Cutler or Andy Dalton.
     
  4. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Foles hasn't made a lot of mistakes. He had, what, 3 turnovers last season?

    The thing about his game that shows his inexperience is that he tends to hold onto the ball too long, waiting for a play to develop. Other than that, Foles plays exceptional football, IMO.
     
  5. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

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    "I heard a rumor that some people reported that we've made it hard for him on the field. That's on purpose. That's how you build a quarterback, and he's coming."

    I've never seen this QB so flustered and out of rhythm. Dropped passes is precisely what I'd expect if timing isn't synchronous, or damn near close to it.
    Its understandable why Lazor elected to correct RT's footwork, prior to, or in correlation with installing his new offense, but if he had any intent to make it more difficult for him, rather than ease the transition of altering the core foundation, and or basic rhythm Tanny had since developed and polished (however poorly) under Sherman, while being expected to learn and execute a new system on cue, this new OC may well have to live with the difficult consequences he's sown, until the more confident, or at least more comfortable Tannehill we once knew, actually returns.

    Tanny may indeed be slow in putting it all together, but doing so with new mechanics installed? The only thing I see coming is Lazor's chicken, home to roost.
     
  6. If RT is just slow to put it all together sitting him might be whats best for him. If he loses confidence he will be useless.
     
  7. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Honestly, I watched quite a few of his TAMU games at QB, and as for rating him a high 1st round pick, I couldn't see what the fuss was about. Whenever I watched him, I felt anywhere from lukewarm to positively underwhelmed. I could not see what he brought to the table that Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles didn't. For full disclosure, I liked Weeden better in 2011 than I did RT too, so I do not claim to be infallible. Seems like CK liked Weeden too back then, so I don't feel quite so bad. :)
     
  8. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I'll let it slide because RickyBobby is totally spot on and we knew he meant the post was idiotic. :up:

    I'm mainly just concerned about getting the names of the players spelled correctly, because I think none of us like to see our name botched up in print. :yes:
     
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  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Spot on DJ sir!!! It's like RT is wearing blinders, how could be not see Miller wide open by several yards?
     
  10. Griese's Glasses

    Griese's Glasses Well-Known Member

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    The Eagles are way ahead of us in pretty much every department...
     
  11. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    Actually he should've recognized where the blitz was coming from, and he should've made Miller, rather than Hartline, his primary target. It was a bad pre-snap read.
     
  12. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You change qbs when you believe it will be a posotive, will lead to improvement. When said qb has lost the team. But you have to know that is thr root problem.

    If you do it and are wrong, then its complete disaster and 1-15 real possibility. The if RT leaves and becomes a good qb elsewhere, you look even more stupid.

    I am leaving for a while, angry. Angry at the incompetence of this team, everything. Tired of the lies by the organ they care about winning. Always til I die a fan, but disappointed and frustrated.

    Changing qbs fixes nothing, I hope they do, so fans will direct their energy to where it needs to be, on the coaches n front office
     
  13. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think the underlined part is at all true in practice. We've had many more examples of Tannehill leading game-winning final drives than him folding in the clutch.
     
  14. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    He has contributed to 5 fourth quarter comebacks in his 2 seasons: Against Seattle in 2012, then Atlanta, Cinci, @Pittsburgh, and against New England last season. But the argument can be made that these were not "big" games. Especially in comparison to scale of the NYJ or Buffalo games to close last season when he was unable to elevate his level of play or that of the players around him. And the week 2 Bills game this season was a huge opportunity for him step up in what was a playoff game type environment in which he didn't do that.

    As I said, I've defended him as much as anyone the past 2 seasons. I'm hoping he proves my doubts and concerns wrong and his level of play starts to elevate, but right now he's not doing that at all.
     
  15. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And is hasn't been 3 years its 2 yrs and 3 games. 3 games in a new scheme and new oline. Wr have dropped crucial passes.

    Like I said there's a real danger of implosion if you start Moore and it doesn't work. Nothing I have seen from this team leads me to think Moore drastically improves this team and he doesn't, you have sealed the demise of yourself (philbin). As well as tannehill
     
  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's would be an incredibly silly argument to make. Those games that would be discounted were all pretty clearly and easily "big" games, and the fact that they didn't end up mattering at the end of the year doesn't really change the circumstances when they were played. NYJ and Buffalo were also big games, sure.
     
  17. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    Like I said, I think people are underestimating just how weak a chance of winning Ryan Tannehill's current QB play is associated with. If he doesn't improve, 1-15 is already a real possibility.
     
  18. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    They were winnable games that we won in dramatic fashion. In comparison to the Bucs game, the later buffalo game, or the NYJ game, they pale in scale and comparison. Either of the last 2 games would have helped quell doubts about Philbin and Tannehill and secured us a playoff berth and more leeway going into this season from the fans.

    Same with winning either of the past 2 games against the bills or chiefs. Sometimes it's not that you lost, but how you lost. Tannehill isn't elevating his level of play to meet the challenges before him. He has to make quicker decisions and be more decisive and accurate. Hoping we see that starting with the raiders this weekend. We lose to that disastrous team and things are going to get real ugly for both Tannehill and Philbin. A need a win badly.
     
  19. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There is 0 chance this team goes 1-15. My preseason prediction was 6-10, but there's too much pride, and talent frankly, to go 1-15. We'd need a slew of injuries that were year long terms.

    I think it's everything that's causing this offense to stink. If we had some WRs that would catch the ball, it would help Ryan Tannehill. If we had a QB that could make plays with his legs or make the correct decisions, it'd help the play-calling. If the OC could just take control and call plays to game-flow, i.e. more running, it'd help the QB, defense, and chances for points.

    Right now, everything is a problem. When one thing is going right, a key component is going wrong. The problem is that we don't have 1 identifiable player on offense to say, this guy will clean it up. Typically, that's your QB, but we don't have that.
     
  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They were winnable games against what was seen to(and generally were) playoff caliber teams and virtually all came during situations where the Dolphins needed the win.

    Those were big games, but they were also games where the team played down to the level of their opposition. I don't think you can describe it as a "pressure" type situation, because as you yourself noted they pretty frequently **** the bed against bad teams in no pressure situations.
     
  21. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    The odds are obviously well against the team going 1-15 with any QB, because that's simply such a rare event in itself. However, if this team doesn't go 1-15 with its current QB, it'll be because Ryan Tannehill's play improved, or some other part(s) of the team surmounted the current deficiencies in his play, because right now, his level of play isn't associated wtih anything better.

    In other words, if Ryan Tannehill's play didn't improve, and you think you have something to lose record-wise in 2014 by inserting Matt Moore, you're wrong.
     
  22. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    If they really feel Matt Moore gives them the best chance to win at some point, you owe it to the Veterans on the team to start Moore. Its not fair to guys like Cam Wake, Brent Grimes to keep loosing.
     
  23. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I disagree. He could improve and if they keep dropping passes and leaving the middle of the field open all day long for opposing offense's and missing insane amounts of tackles, we'd just lose by a lesser margin.

    Tons of problems going on...maybe the injuries and suspensions getting better will help a lot of them...several coaches and players need to do better.
     
  24. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Our fans have a reputation for being more civilized?

    That's pretty much all I got.
     

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