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The Marshall TD Drop

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Southbeach, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Fintastic and Ophinerated like this.
  2. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Marshall is still a very good player, but thats a catch that should be made.
     
  3. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Yes, Marshall should have made the catch. He's a big time NFL receiver, and big time receivers are supposed to make those catches.

    That being said, it's not as easy a catch as some on here think. Armando makes it seem like 5 yards to the back of the end zone is a huge amount of space. It's a tiny amount when you're focusing on catching the ball, slowing down in time and getting your feet in bounds.

    Not making excuses. He should have caught the ball. But it wasn't a ridiculously easy catch either. In my mind, the impressive TD he had later in the game made it a wash. Can neither blame him or praise him in this game, IMHO.
     
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  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That IS a tough catch. There's no two ways about it. It's fully over the shoulder, his back turned to the QB and the ball. He has to get full extension to get his hands on it. And he's trying to haul it back in while Jason Allen has his elbow digging into Brandon's back pushing him.

    That's a tough catch.

    Only because we lost, and because people don't want to say Henne played poorly in the game, is this catch becoming such a big effing deal.

    But Andre Johnson, universally hailed around here and elsewhere as this God amongst men, had an even easier over the shoulder vertical ball go right through his mitts and bread basket, over top of Nolan Carroll who did NOT get his hands on the ball (and wasn't really even close, when you see the end zone view).

    Brandon Marshall did way more than enough in that game to help out the offense and Chad Henne. His being so awesome is the reason we got that touchdown in the first place. It wasn't like that was some great throw by Henne that got the touchdown. He just throw the ball on a short hitch to Marshall and said, go be Brandon Marshall. And so Brandon Marshall was himself and totally b-tched Jason Allen, got the TD. There were other plays too, like that conversion where Henne threw it to Marshall way short and somehow in his RAC, Marshall managed to stay in bounds and stab the ball over the line. That kept the offense moving. Then there was another play where Johnathan Joseph had perfect coverage on Marshall and Henne threw the ball up to him a little too inside, and Brandon just totally reached around behind Joseph's helmet and snatched the ball away from him, a highlight reel play that isn't going to end up on highlight reels because we lost and because it didn't get a touchdown.

    But no. The only thing people can talk about is him not quite managing to haul in a ball at full speed with full extension with Jason Allen pushing him in the back.
     
  5. pitted151

    pitted151 New Member

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    ..........with a big time paycheck as well.
     
  6. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Wrong. Andre Johnson has SINGLE HANDEDLY beaten this team and bailed out his QB multiple times over the years... We are one of many examples where Johnson made plays that were nearly impossible with Houston trailing or in danger of losing. When Andre Johnson drops a catchable ball we all gasp in awe and shock. When Brandon Marshall drops one, we shake our heads and say "Here we go again". I don't see Andre Johnson taking plays off or stopping mid route. I don't see Andre Johnson plastered all over the nightly news after another domestic violence assault.

    Making a comparison between the two is laughable, especially if your primary target is Henne.

    If you had to do it all over again, would you trade two 2nd round picks for the production of Brandon Marshall or is he being held back by Henne just like Chambers was his entire career here? At what point does Marshall shoulder part of the blame for our offensive woes?
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's all irrelevant. The fact of the matter is your hero Andre Johnson dropped an even easier vertical ball than Marshall did and nobody gives a sh-t because they won and because Schaub was still able to continue to find him and others and put the ball in the end zone twice.

    Brandon Marshall isn't perfect. They traded two 2nd round picks and gave $50 million to a guy that turns out to have Borderline Personality Disorder and could any day be found sodomizing an alpaca while strangling his wife, tears in his eyes and a David Carridine masturbation noose hanging around his neck. It won't be his fault, it's the disease, he's very brave. Nonetheless, it's another example of this front office not finding a way to step around the land mine. However, fact of the matter is, he's a ridiculously talented wide receiver that REGULARLY makes plays that if Ted Ginn had made even just once in his career would have seen him hailed as the best receiver in the history of the universe, and Marshall made a few of those plays in this game and yet all people can talk about is a catch he didn't haul in that would have been a pretty hard effing catch.
     
  8. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    If Marshall is the WR everyone thinks he is he makes that catch bottom line.
    Thing is with player fans is they make excuses for their favorite player and justify with pointless reasoning like Johnson dropped one too so it is okay for Brandon to drop one.
    BM took his eyes off the ball just like he did on his other big drop. Rule #1 catch the god damn ball.
    These two drops could have affected the outcome of the football game but yet no one wants to point blame at our so called star.
    Man up Marshall fans...... He blew it.
     
  9. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Dude, I am with you.. I was dumb enought to marry a borderline (they can be very charming, hard to really KNOW for a few years) so we can't really blame the Dolphins for not spotting this when they decided to sign him..

    There is no question that he has talent, but he has flaws.. And I find your reasoning is less about Brandon Marshall and more about Henne.. I don't know what happened to you but in 09 you were gushing over Henne and now seem to find any excuse to bash him.. If anyone is a victim here it's Henne, first he had to deal with a vote of no confidence last year and was a$$ raped everytime we had momentum with the wildcat.. Henne has shown flashes.. Is he perfect? Hell no, his RZ performance changes as I still think his adreanline pumps to hard when he sees the EZ and he either overthrows or throws too hard... I think that can be corrected. Outside of that, he is making reads, he is finding WR's and he is playing with confidence.. What more do you want from him? And why does a CLEAR BMarsh drop turn in to a Henne "played a poor game" thread?
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    By the way Brandon Marshall did not "give up" on a route in the end zone. He made an adjustment based on the cornerback's aggressively bailing and turning his back. It was an adjustment he hoped Henne would get on board with, and that I've seen Aaron Rodgers read after the snap and throw plenty of times. But Henne stopped reading the situation as soon as the ball was snapped. He only saw the corner lined up in press coverage before the snap, he didn't see his aggressive bail technique after the snap, and so he threw the ball deep into the end zone.
     
  11. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    In no way do I think it was an easy catch. When I watched it live, I did not believe he should have caught it. Now, I think differently.
     
  12. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    Thats a tough catch, its one you wish he came down with but he isn't the reason we lost the game. He actually kept us in it for the most part.
     
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  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    wasn't that hard of a catch, ball had good spin and trajectory, out in front of him, a receiver's easiest catch is when he can extend his arms, plenty of room to get the feet in bounds..He catches that, Carp hits 2 chip shot field goals and you have a 10 point lead..
     
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  14. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    But Andre Johnson dropped one so Dolphins fans will give a drop to Marshall.
    Dumbest god damn logic I have ever heard in my life.
    Supposed to be a top five WR then he should be one.
    Catch the ****ing ball.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    This is the worst logic I have ever read in my life.
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    What I'm tired of with Chad Henne is the EXCUSES and SCAPEGOATS. For some reason, I still can't figure out, a guy with 75, 75 and 79 QB Ratings from 2009 to 2010 to 2011, without a great win percentage, keeps getting excuse after excuse after excuse made for him. And what's worse, everyone feels like they need to tear down all these other players that are actually doing their jobs and doing them well, in order to make these excuses for him. Brandon Marshall played a GOOD game against the Texans. He was superb after the catch, creating first downs and a touchdown. He made one catch reaching around a corner's body that is just mind blowing when you look at it. He drew straight up double teams toward the end. But he's got to get torn down in order to make Henne look better.

    But really, let's talk about anything and everything so that we don't acknowledge that the defense got tired and gave up at the end of the game again, the offense couldn't score touchdowns again, the special teams continued to be atrocious for the fourth straight year, the rookie running back who fumbled a lot in college coughed it up right when the team was looking to get back some momentum, and the quarterback (shocker here) followed up a good game with a poor one.
     
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  17. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    What for a #1 WR to make plays is the worst logic.
    Do you want me to say Oh you are Brandon Marshall, It's okay if you drop TD's.
    What a bunch of bull****.
     
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    There is just a weird thing called context. Even the best receiver I have ever seen (Larry Fitzgerald) drops touchdown passes.
     
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  19. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

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    I still contend that we are looking too hard to blame ONE person for our red zone struggles.

    We couldn't run in short yardage in NE and it cost us a TD.

    We call a fade route to Hartline on 4th and 1 in NE and it cost us a TD.

    Henne and Marshall can't get on the same page for two consecutive plays in NE and for one in Hou which cost us a TD in each.

    Marshall drops that ball in Hou and it cost us a TD.

    Henne missed his fair share of throws as well which cost us TDs.

    The pro-Henne people blame Marshall for not making a great catch in NE and a good one in Hou, the anti-Henne people say he has to get the ball in the endzone but then don't give him slack when he does and the ball is dropped or we can't run it in from .5 yards.

    I think it is fairly obvious the offense is just not on the same page. Which can also be said about our linebackers. And our secondary. And our offensive line.

    Maybe instead of turning this into a 700 post Fasano drop / Henne INT thread - we can take a step back and see that the entire team is a mess - not just this play.
     
  20. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    He also said Henne would suck it up but I see him putting the ball on our #1 WR's hands who can't catch a cold and is allergic to the end zone.
     
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  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Actually I said that if the team can avoid a confidence collapse and turmoil owing to coaching changes, etc, that Chad Henne should have his best year as a pro because this receivers unit is the best he's ever worked with and should be the envy of a lot of teams in the NFL.

    But I still don't buy that Chad Henne is "good enough". He's got a 79 QB Rating and he's 0-2, leading an offense that's scored 37 points in 2 games.

    That really good enough?

    Not so far. We'll see if he gets better. I'd personally been thinking he has a QB Rating in the 80 to 85 range this year.
     
  22. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    is 85 on the season good enough?
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I agree with what you say with one nitpick. I've said many times that I account for that ineptitude in the NE game. As I've said before, during non-garbage time, Chad Henne and the receivers and pass protection were good enough operating the passing game to score about 21 points in that NE game, on their own, with only marginal help from the ground game, and without the aid of the defense creating that turnover and giving them the ball on the door step of the end zone. That's pretty good. But it's not "very good".

    And yet that was the high water mark, and a game like this one is more of a lower water mark, and on the balance of things when it all balances out, I just don't think he has been or will be good enough. We'll see.
     
  24. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

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    Just a caveat on looking at the QBR - his two INTs were on a tipped ball as time expired and on a play where his arm was hit. I get this could count as "making excuses", but I think there is a serious flaw in a stat attributing the INT where Colombo missed his block to Henne.

    (Not saying Henne has looked great, just pointing out that when taking a deeper dive, QBR isn't perfect - remove one of those crap INTs and add in his rushing TD and suddenly you could make arguments he's been great. They'd be wrong, but you could do it.)
     
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  25. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    This is extremely hypocritical of you to call out others for making excuses. That's pretty much all you've done with Henne:

    -Marshall can't catch
    -Marshall's a diva, overpaid, overrated WR
    -Hartline isn't fast or good enough
    -No Team Speed
    -Lack of running game
    -Dan Henning ruined him
    -David Lee ruined him and is stupid
    -Sparano ruined him
    - Dan Henning is a senile bastard

    And that's just a small sample of the excuses you have made for Chad Henne's subpar play the past 2 years. I'm actually floored that you haven't caught yourself doing exactly what you call out everyone else for doing
     
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  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    No. Omar Kelly kept saying if our QB can have an 85 rating then this team will be in the playoffs and win like 10 games. I've disagreed with that. Two things:

    1. There have been plenty of bad/marginal QBs that have gotten 85 ratings because of a decent surrounding cast and/or circumstances. I need to see more than that before I truly question my evaluation of him.

    2. This season especially, you know how many QBs there are out there with 80+ QB Ratings? Remember, you can't play this game in a vaccuum! Everything is relative. So Chad Henne finally gets up to an 85 QB Rating in a year when 19 quarterbacks have 85+ ratings? That's the big accomplishment, the big goal that proves he's the hero of the story after all? He's been out-dueled by two straight QBs. Right now his season QB Rating is 27th of 32 in the NFL. And yet it's the highest it's ever been in his career.
     
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  27. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    So you are citing my defense of Henne in order to justify Marshall dropping a TD and dropping a ball that has big play potential.
    Very creative. :no:
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    1. He also had 8 of 12 for 102 yards and 1 TD passing during garbage time, in addition to that interception. If you want to take out the garbage time INT, why aren't you taking out the garbage time TD and yardage? Seems like trying to have your cake and eat it too.

    2. All Henne would have had do to avoid that INT is simple: work the pocket. Step up a little. That's a quarterback's job too. Mario came on a deep outside rush and Henne froze in place at the bottom of his drop. He takes one step up into that pocket to help out his OLs, and that play is not an interception. How in the world anyone tries to excuse this interception is beyond me.
     
  29. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    This may be true, but can you honestly tell me that Matt Ryan is any better than Henne? QB rating doesn't take in to account factors like OL play, coaching and the talent around you.. If you gave Chad Henne the same time in the pocket that Brady has, I guarantee you his rating would be 90+.. That would probably be the case with every other QB in this league with the exception of the joke in Jacksonville
     
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  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    YES. Y-E-S. Polygraph me. Matt Ryan is not only better than Chad Henne, he is a LOT better than Chad Henne.

    More excuses. Chad Henne's entire defense operates out of "what if" land.
     
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  31. creasy

    creasy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lets also not ignore how badly this roster has been managed. How stubborn this regime has been with their evaluations and performance assesments, and how after another regime change this franchise is still irrelavent. I rooted my *** off for Parcells, Sporano and Ireland. But lets be honest. This team is not going to win. They are not talented enough. I am guilty of over valuing alot of these guys myself.
     
  32. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    My eyes must lie to me, when I see Ryan I see a lot of the same things Chad does.. Makes a few great throws, then follows up with a bad read and near INT, then two overthrows.. Then an all world throw..

    The same can be said for Sanchez, who IMHO is probably the best game manage/ playmaker out of the three....

    Point is these guys are still young... And out of those three, Chad has played for a sh*t coach, a dwindling fanbase and a team on the verge of implosion.
    But nobody is going to convince me that the new superstar darling QB's in this league are any better than what Chad can bring to the table.. Bring Matt Ryan or Sanchez to this team and the results are identical.
     
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  33. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    With what Marshall cost the Dolphins and his salary he should be money in the bank on a pass thrown the way that one was thrown. If it hits him in the hands and he got both hands on it it should be a catch. He may have not had time to get both feet down in bounds but it should have been a sure catch. Marshall was picked up to be a clutch player and a difference maker, hes good but not great yet.
     
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  34. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    In the last three games Marshall has fumbled. Dropped a potential TD vs NE. Dropped a potential TD vs Hou. The excuse about being pushed by Allen is good though. Its not like we're playing tackle football here...oh wait.
     
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  35. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    Both incidents were real buzz kills. That's how close were are to winning, though, eliminating mistakes like this. That's why I haven't completely given up .... yet.
     
  36. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

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    Yeah, I didn't mean to take away the INT because it was garbage time, but more because it was 4th down at the end of a game where he couldn't throw the ball away or make a "smart" decision. His only play was to force the ball - much like at the end of the Jets game last year when he got an INT trying to hit Fasano. He had to do SOMETHING, and while I know you could argue that he put himself in that situation, I was looking more at it from a "this wasn't a bad decision that led to an INT, it was a play where he had to force it".

    I'm not particularly adamant about this - was just throwing it out as a thought in terms of evaluating his performance. If we are saying, "Look he still makes dumb choices because he has 2 INTs", I would argue more that they weren't bad decisions, but more circumstances of the play.
     
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  37. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    One thing I never can understand is how people like to throws INTs away or incompletes away that were tippee by defensive lineman, QBs are responsible for that as well.
     
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  38. creasy

    creasy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Should Marshall have caught that pass, sure. but he didnt. And he will drop others. And so will every other WR in the NFL. However Marshall has been good for us this year. I think he played well in the NE game, and he played well in the Texans game. He is the best offensive playmaker we have. I mean how many touches did Bush have? Outside of Marshall, in the Texans game the best playmaker we had was Daniel Thomas, and who knows what we will get from him going foward.

    I think a bigger story with this team is Dansby going down and us having to start a guy we signed 3 weeks ago after he was cut is now going to start for us at ILB. Or that we are signing more cowboy rejects off the street to play this week. Where is the depth??
     
  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Point well taken. Team is bad all over in a number of different ways. But, the team also has some pretty talented players.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Absolutely.
     

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