The Matt Moore plot thickens?

Neither team had a legitimate shot at a championship before getting their current QBs.

 

With all due respect, because I like Freeman as a QB, I'm not sure you can say the TB Bucs are on some arc for success. They were awful two years ago, and turned it around last year. Its going to take 2-3 more winning seasons before they can be considered a legitimate contender.

 

Who are you putting his game and rep count against?.

In this case, Seeing that you make conclusions based on what people say, what about the coach saying several times, that the young QB had gotten better, and that he did improve his game from the year before.

 

Farve led the packers to the championship game the year before Rodgers took over....Steelers were making the playoffs with scrubs.

Both teams had just that before their arrival..

What did Henne inherit?

 

And neither had a legitimate shot at a championship without very good defenses. It takes both to win.

 

The 2009 Saints had a good laugh at this.

 

Then why did Sean Payton pay for Gregg Williams out of his own pocket? The Saints defense absolutely had a lot to do with their title, and was the difference between their team in 08 and 09. They were a turnover-creating machine.

And either way, even if you want to consider the NO defense in 09 not good, that would really be one of the very few exceptions. Theres a reason teams like San Diego and Houston struggled last year, and it wasn't because of their offense. Theres a reason the NE Patriots haven't won a title since their defense went away. You can't rely on one side of the ball entirely through a playoff run.

 

This is getting really old and everyone seems to try to dig in even harder that their opinion is correct.

Alot of quotes used were quotes right after the season. like Marshals which he recanted somewhat since. Saying teh new offense was better and that Henne was suited for it. Long has supported Henne to say he hasnt is reading what you want to read. Hartline is teh expert now? maybe he should become an expert at catching the ball after how many drops he had.

Henne needs comp that we I think all realize. But man can we give it rest with the expert testimony going on? Everything will sort itself out in time, it always does, so I will wait and hopefully we have football so it can be decided on teh field.

 

Let's be fair about this 1st/2nd/3rd year thing for a second here.

Is it somewhat common for a guy in his 2nd year starting to take a little step backward compared with his 1st year? Yes. It is. So maybe this is what people are calling a "natural progression" for Chad Henne. But what isn't natural is for a franchise guy (using the term loosely) to not end up having success before his 2nd year starting.

Here are some 1st, 2nd, 3rd year progressions of QB Ratings for longer term starters in this league, counting only years with 8+ starts:

Tom Brady - 86.5, 85.7, 85.9
Joe Flacco - 80.3*, 88.9, 93.6
Carson Palmer - 77.3, 101.1, 93.9
Ben Roethlisberger - 98.1*, 98.6, 75.4
Matt Schaub - 87.2, 92.7, 98.6
Peyton Manning - 71.2*, 90.7, 94.7
David Garrard - 80.5, 102.2, 81.7
Vince Young - 66.7*, 71.1, 82.8
Kyle Orton - 59.7*, 79.6, 86.8
Matt Cassel - 89.4, 69.9, 93.0
Jason Campbell - 77.6, 84.3, 86.4
Phil Rivers - 92.0, 82.4, 105.5
Tony Romo - 95.1, 97.4, 91.4
Eli Manning - 75.9, 77.0, 73.9
Michael Vick - 81.6, 78.1, 73.1
Donovan McNabb - 77.8, 84.3, 86.0
Jay Cutler - 88.1, 86.0, 76.8
Aaron Rodgers - 93.8, 103.2, 101.2
Brett Favre - 85.3, 72.2, 90.7
Matt Ryan - 87.7*, 80.9, 91.0
Drew Brees - 76.9, 67.5, 104.8
Matt Hasselbeck - 70.9, 87.8, 88.8

* = True rookie year

Then you have three two-year starters:

Josh Freeman - 59.8, 95.9, ????
Mark Sanchez - 63.0, 75.3, ????
Chad Henne - 75.2, 75.4, ????

Let's be honest for a second here. Which of the longer term starters above had gone two seasons of 8+ starts, not even managed an 80+ rating, and then gone on to have successful pro careers? Drew Brees and Eli Manning. And of those two, Drew Brees went ahead and jumped up in his 3rd year starting. Eli Manning didn't even do that until his 4th year as a starter. So what happens if Henne sucks again in 2011? Suddenly, the fact that there's only been one guy instead of two, and so now this is proof we need to move on? I mean if Eli Manning is half the reason we're giving Henne more time, does it make sense to even give up on Chad after his third straight year of sucky quarterback play?

Look at all those other guys that showed something in at least one of their first two seasons starting. With guys like Brandon Marshall, Ricky Williams, Ronnie Brown, Jake Long, Vernon Carey, Jake Grove, Davone Bess and Anthony Fasano on the offense in 2009 and/or 2010, why is Miami's situation SOOOOOOO unique that Henne was doomed to be among the two guys who couldn't perform even fairly well within their first two years as starters, as opposed to the 20 guys who could? I don't get that.

What other position would you get 28 games to suck and still be given another 16 games before you can conclude that you're just not very good at football?

 

How about that same coach saying we need to get better quarterback play, and/or talking about how you need something that Henne clearly doesn't have (feet) to make big plays in this league?

And by the way, pointing out what the players around Henne are saying was purely about your statement that the players know what REALLY happened, back when you were under the impression that Henne actually has the support of the players. Now that it's been pointed out to you that he doesn't, you back pedal and suddenly "Ah what do the players know!"

 

By the way, here are the averages for 1st, 2nd, 3rd years starting:

Average "Franchise" Quarterback - 81.8, 85.5, 88.9.

Again, using the term "franchise" loosely. Don't get caught up in terminology and semantics. Call it what you want. "Long term" starters...or "successful" starters, whatever. If you want to call it that and then also include the likes of Derek Anderson, Alex Smith, Kerry Collins, Jon Kitna, Ryan Fitzpatrick, that's up to you. It doesn't change my point.

Ryan Fitzpatrick - 70.0, 69.7, 81.8
Alex Smith - 74.8, 81.5, 82.1
Derek Anderson - 82.5, 66.5, 65.9
Kerry Collins - 61.9, 79.4, 55.7
Jon Kitna - 77.7, 75.6, 61.1

Doesn't really matter. The more scrubs you include in the list, the more populous the group that Chad Henne falls into gets, which should tell you something. Eli Manning and Drew Brees were the exceptions to the rule.

 

Back on these boards after a pretty long while.... looking at the main page, this thread looked the most ridiculous.

Click.

Lo and behold: Ridiculous.

Matt Moore sucks. No need to quantify it (especially when there are twenty one other variables on the field at all times, and several more on the sidelines.).

Watch the tape. He sucks.

All while they had Moore, Carolina drafted Jimmy Clausen, Tony Pike and Cam Newton.

Let me go ahead and make this thread more asinine.

Terrelle Pryor.

Gentlemen.

 

Who is the most prolific 3rd QB in the NFL???

 

I didn’t say the Steelers or Packers were awful. I’m talking about the Falcons and Rams in that statement.

He didn’t. He wanted Gregg Williams badly enough that he paid to make up for the difference in desired salary between the Saints and Williams during negotiations.

More to the point, the 2009 Saints defense was not good. Just because the talking heads on NBC Sunday Night Football say something doesn’t make it true. The biggest thing the Saints D did was not magically improve with the addition of an average defensive coordinator, but they took the ball away from the other team. They created turnovers. They were an opportunistic defense, not an elite defense. You want to know the biggest name on the 2009 Saints D? Darren Sharper, not Gregg Williams.

 

Q: How do you know your team has QB issues?

A: Matt Moore generates 5 pages of discussion.

 

That's nothing, I once saw a Tim Rattay discussion get to be 10 pages at least once.

 

''Players talk Stringer, they know what went down last year..''

Not sure where I got lost in translation but thats my first statement, and something I stand by...You don't know if its true or not, neither do I, I said it because its how I feel after taking a very close look at the situation...Your basing your opinion about this subject on a couple of players who number one, were 3 of the 4 players that played like absolute crap for 8 games up to the benching, and #2, what was said right after the year....

I feel that after the season when people have their wits, and the tape has been watched, combined with what he's doing now, players might actually feel differently..Your argument allows no room for that.

 

I really don't think this thread has much to do with Moore Cane..He offers nothing at this point but backup material, Id rather sign Thigpen.

 

Sounds like you're doing the same thing Padre did with Matt Moore there.

 

Catch a ****ing INT and give your QB a 40 yard drive rather than 80. Let's not forget Smith was benched early.

 

Thats how.

 

Maddox looked pretty damn good at one time on that team.

 

How bout if we catch 2 of those, maybe one of those pick 6's thru the games up until the benching, were not even having a coversation about a benching..lol..

If we can blame Henne for a bad call from a referee {pitt game} than I dont believe in that type of overall evaluation of a position...

 

How about some links showing quotes of players clamoring for a new QB?

 

Compared to Tom Brady, very few teams have a QB.

 

No, they don't forget it, just twist it to Wake meaning he only says it because he has to. I heard Wake too, and I didn't get that from him. Probably because I'm just a blind Henne supporter, rather than being part of the objective anti Henne crowd.

When I started into this thread, I was surprised to see it was about Matt Moore and was already 6 pages long. Guess I can see why now. The topic kind of veered off course a little.

 

Exactly! It wasn't like we had 21 starters all performing at a playoff level and just had Henne holding the team back.

 

Me too. I can't believe how many fans want to just mail in the season, and get to the perceived new coaching staff and new rookie QB that they feel is waiting for us in 2012.

 

I do not mean to be rude but who really cares either way? are we really arguing over whether this kid is a 3rd stringer or practice squad fodder? Neither really helps us.

 

Just my two cents, but I feel many fans believe that until they see something different from Henne...and maybe Sparano (okay the latter is more along the lines of my personal thinking) that we're just going to keep spinning our wheels with 7-9 seasons and that a worse record almost certainly guarantees a regime change, which typically leads to a QB change.

 

In the 3 games Henne had over 40 attempts, his combined QB rating was 83.44

 

Probably a lot of fans would be upset if Henne improved enough to warrant sticking with him and the W-L record improved to the point, it didn't really justify firing Sparano. Say for example an 85 QB rating and a 10-6 or 9-7 record.

 

Can't say I'd disagree. Until Dan Marino version 2.0 is under center...

 

I just can't get on board with that. There is absolutely no correlation to a CB's play having a negative effect on a QB's play. To try and paint a picture, that if Sean Smith catches more INT's it will then positively affect Chad Henne's performance is an EXTREME stretch.

How about if Chad Henne plays better, Chad Henne's performance improves?