I track how pass rushers are doing across the NFL. Some of you who follow me on Twitter probably hear me talking about Cameron Wake and Koa Misi a lot and how they're looking relative to other pass rushers.
One thing I like to do is award points for sacks (3), hits (2), pressures (1) and batted passes (2). I think of all of those as encompassing what it means to be a good pure pass rusher. Sacks are probably the best plays you can make. You get a hit on the QB (which is always good, like a body blow in a boxing match), you turn the play into a failure, plus the other team loses yardage. I think hits are very important too. Quarterbacks that get hit often throw errant balls which can be picked off. A batted pass to me is just as well, if you managed to get into the passing lane and get your hands up, you not only kill the play dead but you've dramatically increased your chances of a popped up interception off the batted ball. That's why I award those two (hits and batted passes) the same. Finally is the pressure. Getting pressure on a QB forces him to acknowledge you and takes his mind off the field. He may scramble away from you but it dramatically increases your chances of an incomplete, a sack once he resets, or even an interception.
So anyway, it's simple. What I like to do after I award the points is see who is the most efficient. Last year, by points alone, you'd never know that Cameron Wake was about to set the league on fire, unless you really tracked efficiency. It was the fact that he was affecting the QB once every 4.1 times he rushed the passer, which is absurdly effective, that helped tell us (in addition to our eyes) that this guy is something special.
On the left you'll find the most productive from among pass rushers that have rushed the passer 100+ times. On the right the most efficient, from among pass rushers that have rushed the passer 100+ times. The points per pass rush are multiplied by 100 for ease of reading.
You'll notice that Cameron Wake is very close to the most efficient pass rusher in the NFL. The most efficient is actually Tamba Hali, who terrorized Ryan Clady a year ago. Hali was one of the most efficient and productive pass rushers a year ago as well.
But check out who occupies the 5th and 6th most efficient pass rush spots in the NFL. Sometimes, things are just weird. The Dolphins ditch a 3-4 OLB because of (insert mysterious issue here) and draft a guy in his place, the guy they ditched goes bonkers in pass rush efficiency but the guy who replaces him is already one of the most efficient and productive pure pass rushers as a rookie. This Cam Wake/Koa Misi tandem is going to be a lot like James Harrison and Lamarr Woodley up in Pittsburgh. Very similar. Harrison was late to the party, had to scrape his way up the ladder and broke out at about the same age Wake did. In comes rookie Woodley opposite him and Woodley tears it up in his first year. Now they're one of the best tandems out there. Wake and Misi, in time, will be as well.
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PerfectTeam, The Aqua Crush, HardKoreXXX and 30 others like this.
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No way to track those.
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Tipped passes as well, that is probably the most overlooked aspect of pressure on a Qb, when a rusher can defense the ball at the LoS it creates opportunites for turnovers.
That is probably the one overlooked aspect of Taylor's game, he was adept at knocking passes down. -
Those are in there. I explained that Batted Passes are worth 2 points.
The thing that sucks is despite the enthusiasm we SHOULD have over Koa Misi, it's overshadowed by the fact that we could have just kept Matt Roth, who is for 100% certain a better football player this year than Koa Misi, which is saying something, and exercised the #12 overall pick by taking someone like Dez Bryant.
I mean, think about that one for a moment.The Aqua Crush, derek, GMJohnson and 1 other person like this. -
That's a pretty cool look at it. Very encouraging. You're right, the loss of Roth probably still overshadows the goodness of Misi. We'll get to see him in about six weeks.
I'll nominate another variable to the pass rush mix. How about forced fumbles?
This is one thing that made JT great. He mastered the strip/sack to the point where we automatically anticipated it the moment you saw him get around a tackle.
I would submit that forcing a fumble is a rather large cherry on top of a sack, since it gives you the opportunity to create a turnover or -- (usually) at the very least -- additional negative yardage.
What say you Chris? :)padre31 likes this. -
They were going to trade out of the #12 regardless Ck, they wanted to recapture a #2 pick and the contract dollars given to Brandon Marshall.
As for Roth, well, the way I see it he was forever nicked up, and if they could make him into a productive OLB, given time they could find someone to do as good, if not better job than he is doing.
That skill, identifying OLB's, is one that I will not doubt Ireland has in spades he has found a handful of dominant type OLB's and nothing Misi, or Wake has done says any differently.
That is why I think highly of Ikaika Francis, he is not there by accident, they chose him, groomed him physically, and coached him up, they clearly like his game. -
Tackles for Loss as well, every good defense run blitzes or their DE's play the run on the way to the Qb, Dwight Freeney is famous for doing so.
Great list though, to think Paterno had Hali and Wake at PSU. -
You got me. Would have been too much work to add them in. I think fumble recoveries should be in there too.
2 points each? That would make a strip sack worth 5 points total. And probably send Osi to the top.
Only thing is, and this is ultimately why I copped out, this is meant to be purely about your ability to rush the passer. Not how good a football player you are in general. Getting away from blockers and getting in a QB's face. I could see putting the strip sack in there but can I isolate strip sacks from other forced fumbles? Not without a LOT of work. -
I've been really impress with Misi so far this season, coming out of college with only 9 sacks really concerned me but he's starting to ease that concern each week. But he still needs to learn some other techniques, you can't only depend on the bull rush.
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ck, i think just forced fumbles should suffice ....
great work though .... my only knock on Misi from what i've seen is that he isn't adept at beating or getting by his lineman -- he just pushes them back slowly to collapse the pocket, nicely though .... albeit, Roth was never going to beat his guy .... equally, Misi is playing the weak side - whilst Roth plays the strong side (so more acceptable) -
my question is who do you think has the higher ceiling, Roth or Misi?
Roth is better right now, but if this is his ceiling, I can see Misi eventually passing him and being the better of the two LBs, especially if he has Wake on the other side. -
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I don't mind the Matt Roth release so much because of the two rotational players on that side as well as we aren't a Matt Roth away from a Super Bowl.
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I do think Misi has a higher ceiling, however I believe CK was talking more of an opportunity cost. Is Misi worth more than getting another player while still keeping Roth?
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Again, it is not the Roth part, it is the part where Miami could have gotten another player to get closer to the Super Bowl.
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I haven't seen alot of Matt Roth this year, but given what he did here and last year in Cleveland those numbers are kind of misleading. Most of his career sacks as an OLB at least were a function of getting isolated on a TE or RB and being able to run them over in a base 3-4. I don't think he's much of a threat in a Nickel package where he's more likely to go against a Tackle.
Looks like Marcus Bernard with 4.5 sacks comes in for him in normal passing situations still. -
that is irrelevant. It is not like Matt Roth is the only OLB to be isolated on a TE or a RB. Doesn't skew his numbers at all.
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Matt Roth will be a FA in after this season, but I doubt he comes back here. He did spend the offseason working out down here with Odrick and Langford.
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I made it a point to try and watch him play last season and what stood out to me was his bullrush was powerful enough to take on Tackles and Centers on Stunts, he was unblockable late in the yr vs Pittsburgh.
Tackle, Center, Te, if you do not have a sound base, he would just bull them over or out of the way. -
So Chad Henne can't rush the passer either? What a loser.
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Yes, it absolutely does. Anthony Spencer, LaMarr Woodley, hell, even Koa Misi doesn't draw backs as often as Roth does.
There's a very good reason why despite Matt Roth being pretty productive snap wise he'll get rotated out on passing downs. -
I love how everyone who rides Roth's jock keeps glossing over the fact that Roth has a constant groin injury that will flare up again at some point. Sure he's been alright since coming back, but how long before he's missing games or going into the tank again cause of that groin?
It'd be like when we had Smiley here, always wondering just how long it was going to be before Smiley was hurt again. -
Misi is not a good pass rusher. He has one pass rush move. The bull rush...he has great motor, but as of today, he's not a good pass rusher
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Do you have actual proof of this?
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His production and pressures seem to suggest otherwise?
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Besides actually, you know, watching and being aware of the history of how he is used? Not really. Maybe I'm lying to impress you?
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Misi is leading all rookies in sacks with 3, and is tied for the NFL lead in fumbles recovered with 2, and he has only 5 fewer Qb pressures than Cam Wake (15 to 10), and Misi is rotated out of games more often than Wake is.
Misi also stepped into Bobby Carpenter's Nickel ILB role. -
Yea and two of his three sacks are coverage sacks. The other I can think of off the top of my head. I didn't say he was a bad pass rusher, I just simply said not good. He's not good at pass rushing yet...
Misi is good in coverage, he has a good bull rush, no other pass rush moves, great motor, and good in coverage. -
I can't say I recall any plays where Misi gets to the QB quickly. I think his best pass rushing attributes may be his tenacity and relentlessness. I know I saw some explosiveness in Misi's college rush, but I haven't seen him jump of the screen as a pass rusher in the pros. Even in college when he did flash, he seemed to just miss the sack.
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Are you saying I do not watch football?
There are a lot of linebackers who are 1-on-1 against a runningback. Roth is still putting up better stats then them. -
Except that he doesn't.
Matt Roth played 379 of 391 snaps through their first 6 games (still don't have data on the 7th game yet).jetssuck and emocomputerjock like this. -
Evidently not THAT aware...if you think Roth's being subbed out on passing downs in Cleveland...no offense...
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That's pretty definitive.
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I can recall severall off the top of my head, against Minnesota, against Green Bay, against Pittsburgh.
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Another thing I don't see mentioned all that much is that because of the way Miami is using Koa Misi, he is GENERALLY rushing a lot more over left tackle than right tackle. The Misi-Wake tandem tends to be strong/weak oriented on base downs but right/left on pass downs, and most of Misi's snaps have been on pass downs, and so the sacks, hits and pressures that he is earning, he's earning from the likes of Bryant McKinnie, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Matt Light, Chad Clifton and Max Starks, more often than not.
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Misi mentioned in a previous article a few weeks back that he has 3 strong moves, which he has worked on all TC and has continued to use into the regular season. As Disgustipate stated, his production suggests otherwise. I have seen more than just a bull rush when I have watched him, albeit sparingly, but he needs to refine a few things.
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Koa has been getting some press recently:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/20711/koa-misi-making-his-mark-for-dolphins -
Uh. No production doesn't state otherwise, because he got 2 coverage sacks his production shows?
Were not talking about good coverage and then a sack, bit those sacks were great coverage and QB not knowing what to do, then Misi got to him. Now had Misi not had the great motor he does he wouldn't of gotten there. But proof is in the pudding...watch the guy rush the passer, he's not there just yet...
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