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The NEW - who's your preferred QB Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Oct 7, 2019.

Who's your QB1 for 2020?

  1. Josh Rosen

    9 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. Tua Tagovailoa

    24 vote(s)
    66.7%
  3. Justin Herbert

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Jake Fromm

    2 vote(s)
    5.6%
  5. Jacob Eason

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Jordan Love

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Joe Burrow

    1 vote(s)
    2.8%
  8. Jalen Hurts

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Sam Ehlinger

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Other - Please post and specify.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    So I've just realised the other two threads on your preferred #1 and #2 QB are out of date. The poll options don't include Joe Burrow or an 'other' option, so I'm creating this one to replace them.

    Vote for your preferred QB1 in the draft, and any #2 options etc.
    Change your votes as the season progresses if you need to.

    QB Quick Profiles

    Josh Rosen - #RouteForRosen
    [​IMG]
    Full Name: Joshua Ballinger Lippincott Rosen
    DOB: 1997 February 10
    School: UCLA
    Team: Miami Dolphins
    Height: 6'4" (1.93m)
    Weight: 215lbs (98kg)




    Tua Tagovailoa - #TankForTua
    [​IMG]
    Full Name: Tuanigamanuolepola Tagovailoa (Tongue-oh-vai-loa)
    DOB: 1998 March 2
    School: Alabama
    Class: Junior
    Height: 6'1" (1.85m)
    Weight: 218lbs (99kg)




    Justin Herbert - #HurtforHerbert
    [​IMG]
    Full Name: Justin Herbert
    DOB: 1998 March 10
    School: Oregon
    Class: Senior
    Height: 6'6" (1.98m)
    Weight: 237lbs (108kg)
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019 at 10:35 AM
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  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Jake Fromm - #FailForFromm
    [​IMG]
    Full Name: William Jacob Fromm
    DOB: 1998 July 30
    School: Georgia
    Class: Junior
    Height: 6'2" (1.88m)
    Weight: 220lbs (100kg)



    Jacob Eason - #EatItForEason
    [​IMG]
    Full Name: Jacob Eason
    DOB: 1997 November 17
    School: Washington
    Class: Junior
    Height: 6'6" (1.98m)
    Weight: 227lbs (103kg)




    Jordan Love - #LoseforLove
    [​IMG]
    Full Name: Jordan Love
    DOB: 1998 November 2
    School: Utah State
    Class: Junior
    Height: 6'4" (1.93m)
    Weight: 225lbs (102kg)
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019 at 10:36 AM
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Joe Burrow - #BailforBurrow
    [​IMG]
    Full Name: Joe Burrow
    DOB: 1996 December 10
    School: LSU
    Class: Senior
    Height: 6'4" (1.93m)
    Weight: 216lbs (98kg)




    Jalen Hurts - #HurlforHurts
    [​IMG]
    Full Name: Jalen Alexander Hurts
    DOB: 1998 August 7
    School: Oklahoma
    Class: Senior
    Height: 6'2" (1.88m)
    Weight: 225lbs (102kg)




    Sam Ehlinger - #ExecrableForEhlinger
    [​IMG]
    Full Name: Samuel George Ehlinger
    DOB: 1998 September 30
    School: Texas
    Class: Junior
    Height: 6'2" (1.88m)
    Weight: 230lbs (104kg)
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019 at 10:39 AM
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    For my vote....Week 6 Update.

    Tua still remains in the #1 spot for me. He hasn't made any big mistakes. Still no interceptions. I've only seen one pass come close.
    He's making good decisions, getting the ball out fast, his accuracy/reliability is top notch. He moves well in the pocket and evades pressure when it comes. You can ignore the YAC number because of his WR's making some incredible runs - it doesn't matter, his ball placement is very, very good. In fact, as good as his WR's are, they also need to thank Tua for throwing passes almost always where they need to be so they're off to a good start.

    As for the number 2 spot I've got Joe Burrow/Jake Fromm behind Tua.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  5. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    As for who is under center next season isn’t nearly as important to me as the offensive line in front of him. I watched many quarterbacks run for their lives yesterday including the kid wonder Mahomes.

    Still way way way too early to speculate on quarterbacks
     
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  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Speculate? It's not so much about predictions as taking a look at who's available and seeing who you like.

    As for the offensive line, I'm 100% in agreement that dominating the trenches is essential. But with a possible #1 overall pick in play the QB question is just as important because it will be spent on a QB, there's no doubt about that.
     
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  7. thetylernator

    thetylernator You're as cold as ice, Officer Friendly.

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    Travis mentioned in his most recent podcast that not only is Tua the favorite of Grier and Flores, but that there is a mandate from the "top" to go and get him. With three first round picks and multiple others in the top 100, I truly don't think anyone else will be under center in 2020--barring a complete miracle season from Rosen.

    That said, we have some great options. In my order of preference:

    1. Tua Tagovailoa, Alabama
    • Unique blend of accuracy, smart decision-making, and evasiveness. Character is off the charts, ideal face-of-the-franchise. Think Russell Wilson meets Chad Pennington.
    2. Josh Rosen
    • We've seen what he can do. Outstanding deep ball, gorgeous mechanics, calm under pressure. Needs to work on his decision making, but the ceiling is still high. Purely as a passer, he reminds me of Jay Cutler, minus the commitment issues.
    3. Jake Fromm, Georgia
    • This guy has grown on me. Pure pocket-passer, but he has the strength to shake off defenders and quick enough feet to maneuver in the pocket. He has a very high floor, which means he'll surely be a good starting NFL QB, but I'm not sure about the ceiling. He reminds me most of Matt Stafford.
    4. Jacob Eason, Washington
    • Streaky. Huge arm. Throws with velocity and anticipation, and can make throws some NFL QB's cannot. Massive potential, but he's raw. Let him sit his first year, and with the right coach, he just might have a Mahomes-esque debut in year two. Definite bust potential here, but I like the chances.
    5. Justin Herbert, Oregon
    • My least favorite of the top-five. Haven't bought into the hype; I think his mechanics are clunky, his throwing motions are awkward, and I just don't see him as a difference-maker at the next level. He is dynamic though, and he can make plays out of nothing. IMO, he's a mobile Brock Osweiler.
    6. Jordan Love, Utah State
    7. K.J. Costello, Stanford
    8. Jalen Hurts, Oklahoma
    9. Steven Montez, Colorado
    10. Sam Ehlinger, Texas
    ... Everyone else.
     
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  8. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    WADR, we can’t keep making that mistake again, and again, and again. The QB does matter and is the most important, imo. I am all for building a good OL, but we need to get our QB first.
     
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  9. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    One of them was Dak behind the Dallas OL.:dunno:
     
  10. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    For right now I vote other... i dont think any of those quarterbacks you listed are better or worst prospects than Drew Lock.... I think i would take a chance at Jake Fromm if hes there to take in the second round. Im definitely not taking a qb with a top 15 pick, none are worthy of it.
     
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  11. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We had this same discussion back before we drafted Tannehill, "Which SHOULD come first,, the QB or the O-line? Lo and behold, the QB came first and he was so caught up in running for his life that the game never slowed down for him, he never fully developed. Are we going to do the same thing and expect a different result? I voted to stick with Rosen, build a team around him and go after Lawrence or someone else in 2021 if need be.
     
  12. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Back when Tannehill was drafted the question was QB or MLB: Tannehill or Kuechly. Almost everyone projecting the draft was torn between which to take: a QB with potential but with a much higher chance of not being the franchise QB we want vs. a MLB that will almost certainly be one of the best at his position. We chose QB and that was the wrong choice in retrospect.

    The last time we chose between QB and OL with a high 1st round pick was when we actually had the #1 pick in 2008 and chose Jake Long over Matt Ryan. A choice between one of the best OL vs. a consistently above average QB. And we made the wrong choice in retrospect.

    As others have said, Tua gives you no reason to think he won't be consistently above average. You don't miss that kind of opportunity.
     
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  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I feel the same way and also voted Rosen for 2020...but I'm also keeping an eye on Lawrence for 2021 if Rosen doesn't wow us behind a better line in 2020. My #1 pick this season is trading the pick, then grabbing a later round QB to groom.
     
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  14. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    I'm not going to pretend to be a great QB evaluator, but I will say I've been paying a lot more attention and trying to figure this out more this season than ever before. One thing I've experienced with Tua is a confidence whenever he has the ball. If you watch him over time you just get used to/expect high quality passes. He really does put it right where it needs to be. And when the pass rush does start to apply pressure he moves around and figures something out. His eyes are downfield, he's looking to make something happen. And whereas last year he apparently had the issue of forcing the ball downfield, this year I haven't seen that. My biggest concern, based on what I read, was whether Tua has the mind, the understanding, necessary to be great. I still don't have that answer, but I am now convinced he has instincts and talent to be great. If he can dominate the mental aspect, then he'll be something special.

    As for alternatives, the other two that remain in my shortlist of seeing something that could work out - Joe Burrow and Jake Fromm. Fromm looks like he might have the best mind of all of the QB's. He's the one I have the least concerns about in terms of understanding the game, defences, and making good QB plays. He may lack physical talent compared to some, but if I have to choose I'll take an elite mind over an elite body. Joe Burrow has seemingly come out of nowhere (I'm sure someone had their eyes on him earlier) but this season he's been looking consistently legitimate. He seems good across the board, and so shows real promise. I feel like there's more likelihood for mistakes than with Tua - and that bears out in their stats so far - but there's an aggression to Joe that feels like a killer instinct. It's a gut feeling but it feels like Burrow could also be something special.

    Overall, we'll have to see how the rest of the season pans out and whether time brings these guys down to earth, or proves them to be real talents.
     
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  15. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    I voted for Tua but there is some merit to the idea of building the line this year and making a run at Lawrence the following year.

    I still think the best option is to draft Tua next year and put him on the bench for a year, get him some mop up duty. Keep Rosen as your starter. This way used to be the norm in the NFL and Mahomes proves there is still merit to it. And hey, Maybe Rosen develops and it turns out you have two great QB's on your roster. Trade one and move on. Good problem to have.
     
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  16. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    The year of drafting obviously depends on the year of declaration. If Tua declare this year and we can take him then picking him and having him spend a year behind Rosen would be the best option I think, along with a veteran, for the reasons you mentioned.

    As for Lawrence, he was crowned too early. Call it a sophomore slump maybe, maybe he does become the next great QB, but only time will tell because right now he isn't. The Dolphins cannot bank on him as he is.
     
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  17. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    I would not give up multiple 1s to get any QB in this draft should we end up drafting around 2-4.
     
  18. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    This a thousand times over!!!

    Not only did we do that with Tannehill, we also did it with Henne.

    Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We’ll draft a QB with our first pick, grab other skill set players, the IL will be an afterthought and once again the Dolphins will rise to mediocrity.

    Everyone wants Miami to find the next Marino but the one thing most folks overlook was Marino already had a solid OL with folks like Stephenson and Kuechenburg.

    Food for thought
     
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  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    The Dolphins drafted Jake Long the same year they drafted Henne. Henne also had a pretty good offensive line. Henne was just not a good QB
     
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  20. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    My list in order:

    1) Tua Tagovailoa
    2) Jake Fromm
    3) Jordan Love
     
  21. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    Back before we drafted Tannehill in 2012 we still had All Pro Jake Long who had only missed 2 games in 4 years (at that point), Incognito who was a pro bowler in 2012, Pouncey who was a 1st round pick in 2011, Jonathan Martin who was a 2nd round pick in 2012, and John Jerry who was a 3rd round pick in 2010...soooo we clearly tried to build the OL unfortunately Jake broke down, Martin was crazy, Jerry didn't workout, Incognito well you know, and Pouncey was good but not great and also kinda injury prone.

    Looks to me like they invested the resources in building the OL before drafting a QB, lo and behold it just didn't workout but it wasn't for a lack of effort.
     
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  22. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Tua who I believe is the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck.

    I don't understand this pick a QB vs build the line narrative when you can do both. Sign 2/3 free agent OL and draft 2/3 OL in the 2nd or 3rd or with one of the 1st round picks. If Dieter progresses that's 1 guard spot, pick up a C and RT in free agency and draft a LT and LG. If Isadora, Boehm, or Jesse Davis progress throughout the year or show you something in TC next year then even better now you have potential starters+ depth. You don't need an OL full of all pro's like Dallas, I rather have 5 decent starters working as 1 unit. When it come's to OL coaching is most important, just look at the Pats OL how many pro bowlers or all pro players are on there? How many 1st rounders are starting?
     
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  23. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Right. And there's nothing to say that Tua, or whoever it is, needs to start this year. Play Rosen or someone else, let a new QB learn behind another and you have even longer to build that line.
     
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  24. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    My pick was Rosen. Not cuz I thinks he's the answer but he's paid for. Yes I want my Jacked up Tundra with a lift in bright Orange but for now it's a luxury I can't afford. Gotta drive my little 2WD Tacoma, It's paid for, gets 25 mpg, and won't let me down. Can still haul boards and dirt or some furniture around.

    We are not going to be good next year either, no matter who's at QB.

    If Tua is there at our pick, whatever it is and I don't think we will have #1 then sure, pick him. If you have to give up anything more than a second or so to move up...don't. I don't want any of the Juniors, I'd like at least a two year starter, prefer 4, and team Captain for starts. Tua could be an exception.

    That leaves Hurts and Herbert. I'd be OK with either at our lowest 1st, and a 4th round prospect too

    Draft Eason (or best QB prospect, but I really like Easons game) next year, that kids going to be a baller. But I want him to come back to UW and go get a title next year first.

    Yes I said

    Keep Rosen,
    1st rd 2020 pick QB
    4th rd 2020 pick QB
    1st Rd 2021 pick QB

    I would also be keeping an eye on what happens with Minshew and Daniels after this season.

    Need to come out of this draft with a 10 yr pro bowl center and a stud MLB priority for me. And G or three
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  25. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I would love for Rosen to be the answer. That would mean Rosen consistently showing us stuff he hasn’t consistently shown before.

    Of the college QBs Tua is the one who is showing the best traits that seem to translate best into pro QB success, namely accuracy into tight windows, good decision making, ability to work in chaos and within a structure. I like that he appears (to me at least) to be an animated leader who encourages his team mates.
    Of course with college ball having inconsistent level of surrounding talent and opposition it’s easy to make a case that a QB from a strong program isn’t as good as he looks.

    Of the others Jake Fromm is the one who is performing better than I thought he would.
     
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  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don’t see the Fromm Stafford comparison, Stafford has very good awareness and escapability talent when he needs it..Fromm is a pocket passer and a pretty strict one at that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019 at 2:11 AM
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  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tua is the best prospect since Mahomes...

    Displays superior confidence..Has the talent to back it up, exceptional accuracy, explosively fast throwing motion, creative playmaker with the awareness to get there in a compromised pocket, oh, and he might be the most innately accurate qb.... ever..
     
  28. thetylernator

    thetylernator You're as cold as ice, Officer Friendly.

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    Eh, as far as evasiveness/rushing ability is concerned, they're in the same ballpark. Both run 4.8-4.9 40's and average between 5 and 15 yards on the ground per game. Fromm can navigate the pocket quite well and his awareness is fine.

    Regardless, the comparison has to do with the two as pocket passers.
     
  29. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    Really? This sums up your belief about Tannehill and his prospects as an NFL QB and his time with the Dolphins? So sad.

    1. Tua
    2. Fromm
    3. Love
     
  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    We should not discount the players that Atlanta had around Matt Ryan for his first few years. Stud receivers, backs and tight end.
     
  31. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    Straight line speed in the 40 is not the same as evasiveness. Patrick Mahomes ran a 4.8 too but his evasiveness/escapability within the pocket has nothing to do with his straight line speed, and imo it's as good as someone like Russel Wilson who has 4.5 speed.
     
  32. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Good post. I would just add that everyone knew at the time that Tannehill was a reach -- there was a slight chance he'd turn out to be really good, no more than that. And yeah, we should have taken Kuechley, but I have no problem with the choice we made. (I'm sure the front office was thinking about the 2008 decision to take Long over Ryan, which was a clear mistake.) Tannehill gave us decent quarterbacking and was incredibly durable those first few years, especially given the pounding he was taking. Turned out he wasn't a franchise quarterback, but he was a reasonable gamble.

    There's a big difference between the #8 pick (which Tannehill was) and the #1 pick overall (which Long was). You don't get the latter too often, hopefully. When you get it, you've got to make it pay off.
     
  33. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    While true I wouldn't alter what I said. Tannehill's career z-score is -0.1166 while Ryan's is 0.6932 with both staying almost the same after adjusting for defense. Tannehill's best year was 2014 with a z-score of 0.3940 and his only other year with positive z-score was 2016 with 0.3739. You know that Matt Ryan beat that 0.394 in 8 out of 11 years and often by a huge amount (his highest was a 2.4746 in 2016)?

    I don't see how one can explain that away by surrounding cast. To give you an idea of what you'd need to argue to explain their difference by surrounding cast, note that the 0.81 z-score difference is equivalent to jumping from 50th percentile to 21st percentile. That's like saying a league average QB would on average be ranked #7 in the league over 11 years just by giving him the surrounding cast Matt Ryan had over those 11 years. Who in their right mind would believe that?

    A better estimate of what a better surrounding cast can do is probably seen with Andy Dalton, who isn't any better than Tannehill IMO but has had a much better surrounding cast in some years (including some stud WR's and better OL..). Dalton's career z-score is 0.1311 which is about 0.25 above Tannehill's. THAT seems more intuitive to me.
     
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  34. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    No hes not.. Mahomes did not have three first round pick receivers, and a first round pick running back on his team in Texas Tech. You really didnt watch Mahomes in college if you think that. You also have not watched Mahomes mechanics in the pocket which is near perfect. Tua is just Ken Dorsey making sure he dont **** up around the big talent around him.

    Mahomes had Jakeem Grant, Keke Coutee, and Dylan Cantrell as his targets. The best of the three so far plays for us and he has been dropping EVERYTHING this season. We should be demanding a refund for the contract we gave Jakeem, it was highway robbery.

    Tua has Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, and Devonta Smith, all three being first round picks soon. Jaylen Waddle, his fourth receiver, will be a first round pick NEXT year. The receivers get to choose who runs what routes and who catches the touchdowns over a game of rock, paper scissors..

    Mark your calendars, tighter windows and pass rushes are coming. @LSU and @Auburn

    Tua’s advanced stats against top 30 defense are below average.
     
  35. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Nah he just had the horrifyingly terrible defenses of the Big 12. :up:

    You can't discount someone just because they played on a talented team. It would be like saying we should avoid Jeudy because he is getting balls from Tua, or Young because he plays on an OSU team that regularly sends high level d-linemen and others every year. Nobody is discounting Lawrence because he has Tee Higgins and Travis Etienne.

    Im no evaluator/tape cruncher, but you look at his skill set in isolation, you see if he is maximizing the talent he has no matter how good/bad they are, etc.
     
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  36. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    It doesn't matter how good his WR's unless the ball is in their hands. There's plenty of tape available of Tua throwing accurate pass after accurate pass. Forget the YAC. Just watch the tape of how Tua passes the ball - placement, timing etc. That's all on him.

    I'm interested in seeing how he does against tougher defences - there's still a lot of season left to go - but I don't rate the argument against him that his WR's are carrying him. I can only see someone thinking that if they just look at the YAC stats.
     
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  37. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I agree it's hard to evaluate a QB that's on a team like Alabama. But Tua gives you NO reason to think he won't be good. In other words, his ceiling is hard to determine but his floor is high with the most likely result being he's consistently above average (unless people think Tua will turn into the next Tannehill or Dalton.. seriously how?).

    And with the #1 pick you shouldn't be worrying about a QB's ceiling. The floor is more important because you don't want to search for a replacement QB for the next decade and a half.
     
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  38. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    While Tua May indeed be a great QB in the NFL, as you point out, it’s difficult to judge quarterbacks coming out of Alabama for the simple fact that Alabama is to the NCAA what the Patriots are to the NFL. They both have proven head coaches and loads of talent all around that the HCs are able to bring out. Tua is great now because of who his HC is and the caliber of talent around him. Will he be that great on a team less talented?

    Too many times we see stud QBs drafted with high expectations. Sometimes they flourish, other times they faulted and other times they have moments of brilliance that flash and fade away. Unless Miami elevates all of their talent no matter what QB we draft, their success in Miami will be minimal at best
     
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  39. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Honest question. Have you taken the time to watch any Alabama games or Tua film? Or the same for any of the other college QBs? I ask because I had never done it before this season except for write ups etc. There may be things I'm missing, I'm sure there are, but I've tried to watch how Tua and others are throughout games. Where their passes land, if they're on time, are they under pressure, on the move etc.

    Regardless of who is around him Tua does see pressure, does have to pass on the move, does need to make tight window throws or deep throws, as do they all. And when those things happen Tua stands out as just consistently better. In addition, he seems to be making decent decisions and he isn't just running when pressure comes, he keeps his eyes down field and looks to, and often makes decent passes.

    Based on what I've seen in games, Tua just looks more competent.
     
  40. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I havent watched too much film, but I will say it's easier to be accurate when you arent facing tons of pressure or having to make a lot of reads in a fairly simple offense.

    I'm not saying this is 100% the case for Tua because I admit I havent watched him enough to say, but even so a lack of physical ability isn't the only reason players fail.
     

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