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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by the 23rd, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    anyone have any idea what has become of Pat White & Pat Turner :pity: high draft choices, great promise, no production, not projection, no conversation ???
    what is happening?
     
  2. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stay patient. That's all I can do with respect to those guys. Robert Meachem of the Saints couldn't get on the field for his first 2 seasons. Now, he's killing everybody he faces.
     
  3. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We're making a playoff run, that's what happened in my opinion. We need to focus on what is consistently working and keep doing that. Give Ricky the ball, let Chad open up the air attack, and let the defense keep working like a well oiled machine.

    All of those things worked well against the Jags. I think next time though we should keep the motor oil far away from Ricky and Bess. Those fumbles are the only reason we didn't absolutely demolish them.
     
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  4. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Not all draft picks work out. I think you're going to see some major changes in the lineup in this offseason.
     
  5. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    all your statements make sense to me, however, would like to at least get a glimpse @ the potential that drew a draft pick before the end of the season.
     
  6. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree, but only if our playoff chances die this week or next week. I hold my breath every time I see Pat White suit up. The boy needs another year or two at least before I'll feel at ease seeing him come out and do his thing.
     
  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    White has had his package reduced because he is now the #2 QB and he probably is not ready for that at this point.They can't afford to spend time implementing his packages AND have him ready to run the tradition offense at a moments notice. What's he is doing now is basically a compromise allowing them to get him slowly acclaimated to game speed while and noting how defenses react while still spending the bulk of his time with his #2 duties. Turner is just cold not ready. Or he could be a bust. Either way, we aint in a position to throw him out there and sacrifice production and all that given the state of the offense.
     
  8. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    [​IMG]

    "They can't all be winners now can they?"

    And it's true. We have a great front office with a nose for talent, but they are human and will make mistakes. Pat White and Pat Turner might pan out eventually, but if not, it's just part of the game. The best of the best GMs don't get every pick right.
     
  9. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    I don't agree with that sentiment, actually. Two seasons in, I think we're past the "major changes to the lineup" portion of the re-building process. We've got two off-seasons of work done. And we have a lot to show for those two. Chad Henne, Bess, Hartline, Long, Smiley, Grove, Thomas, Starks, Merling, Langford, Fasano, Polite, Carpenter, Davis, Smith, Clemons, and Hilliard. Add to that guys like Ronnie, Ricky, Ginn, Camarillo, Joey, JT, Crowder, Will Allen and Yeremiah Bell. Those guys make up the core of this team. And we've performed this year with guys like Ronnie, Cobbs, Ferguson, Pennington and Will Allen on IR and guys like Crowder, Grove, Smiley, Roth, and Ginn being hurt intermittently. We've built some sembalance of depth on this team now and yeah we'll see some guys go and some guys come but I think the major overhaul portion is done. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
     
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  10. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I don't. What we have right now is a core of talented young players at some key positions: QB, CB, DL, OL...and that's good. But we are going, IMHO, to see a BIG lineup change at LB in the offseason---I wouldn't be surprised if all but one of our current LBs is gone. Maybe two. I also expect to see our WR position totally revamped. Bess will stay, but I think he's the only sure thing.
    At running back...it may not be this offseason for the RB position, but by next offseason, I doubt either Ricky or Ronnie will be on the team.
     
  11. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    looking forward to the return of the tandem. makes no sense to break it up
    however
    would like to get a peak @ what Pat & Pat bring to the table in 2009
     
  12. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    agreed, the only overhaul will be at LB ... with some changes to the WR, DL (NT), and TE ... otherwise we are in pretty good shape.
     
  13. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    When has Ginn been hurt intermittently since he's been here? I don't recall any injuries.
     
  14. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He must have meant Ginn's pride being hurt intermittently... maybe?
     
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  15. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    IMO Hartline stays too.
     
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  16. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Turner is still on a bye for me. White on the other hand, wasted pick...Rookie or not, he should be making some kind of impact and he is not. I don't think they are waiting to unveil some new phase of the WC come playoff time (especially since our playoff time began once we lost to the Jills). The guy is a bust...sorry for all those White apologists, but for our money, he's a bust...
     
  17. mracer

    mracer New Member

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    Our team needs to draft or sign fa's in those areas. Now that Roth is off the team olb and ilb are both needs. Here's my list in order of importance. ILB, OLB, WR, TE, NT. This regime seems to take NT during mid to late rounds and develop them (ie. Ferg and Ratliff). I'm not sure if Solai is the answer but we'll see during the next 3 weeks. Do we have any ps players that are being groomed for the NT?
     
  18. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    White is a QB so he should take a long time to develop. It was not a pick I would have made, but now that he's here I can't say I'm disappointed in what he's shown. My expectations for a 1st year QB coming from a spread in college are pretty low.

    Turner, on the other hand, has been a disappointment. I wasn't crazy about the pick on draft day but it did fit a need. He should have at least flashed something and got on the field. This is nothing like Meachem who was behind a good WR corp that had a 4th year Devery Henderson, and Colston and Moore who exploded. Turner is behind one of the worst WR corps in the league. He didn't even flash in preseason. At this point there is less reason to believe in Turner than there was to believe in Brandon London or Derek Hagan.
     
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  19. mracer

    mracer New Member

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    +1000 I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. Too bad he can't be taught a new position like wr.
     
  20. eric

    eric New Member

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    too bad you people dont seem to comprehend that 2nd round pick, pat white, did more in his first year then 2nd round pick chad henne did in his first year.

    i dont remember people crying about a wasted pick while henne was riding the pine. white is a QB. a back up QB right now. if you are disappointed with his production to this point then you have nothing to blame besides your unrealistic expectations.

    im begining to think that all these pat white haters are just jon beck lovers that have something against white, since he took becks spot on the team.

    there is a staff of people who are paid ridiculous amounts of money to make these decisions. obviously pat white brings more to the table then jon beck did. so get over it already. stop hating on a kid for no good reason.

    as far as patrick turner not getting any playing time behind a group of receivers that everyone knows isnt good enough.... i can understand some being disappointed with that pick. but atleast that is something to complain about.
     
  21. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    Pat Turner in my opinion hasn't seen the field not because he can't be a better reciever it's because he can't be trusted to play special teams. Therefore the wr in front of him, hartline, who has been very good on special teams gets the roster nod.

    it's about availability with what the teams need is right now. Common sense more than anything.

    Pat White, is a back up qb. I didn't like the pick much either, because a different position might have been better but when the pick was made we still didn't know what henne would do when his chance came. Having another young qb learning the system isn't a bad idea. It just seems bad because he doesn't have an effective on field role right now. But he is a second round pick that is now more than likely going forward going to be a backup qb or trade bait. This is Henne's team now. Pat's on field role will diminish even further.

    The pat white pick is a matter of perspective though. At the time of the pick he figured to be another on field option for us. And a potential qb for us over time. Remember though we used that pick from the Redskins for basically renting JT out for only one year. That's a cheap price to pay to have Pat White even as a backup qb who can be used in certain situations in the future. So although a different player may have been better it's not all bad. And the price wasn't very bad either.

    Turner will get his shot, and another offseason to work with Henne should improve his chances. I wouldn't come to the conclusion that he isn't playing this year because he's no good. It's a matter of position availability and for a rookie wideout there is only usually one wideout spot. Hartline is more versatile via special teams. There fore he wins the position.
     
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  22. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well one of the things that was said about Hartline as the only reason he is starting this year, is that he picked up on the playbook extremely fast, and has proven he can play all the WR positions, as well as ST.

    If Turner excels in only one department as a WR, that's fine, so long as he is leaps and bounds excelling.
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    When Ronnie returns, pat white will continue to evolve alongside the wildcat.for now, he's our #2 QB...thats a big deal, give the youngster time to let the game slow down for him.

    Name me another rookie spread QB thrown into the fire in their first year in hi pressure situations...

    The pick is a part of a vision, which requires patience...Ronnie and Pat imo, will evolve the formation together while Pat continues to prepare for being #2.

    Anyone see how philly used Vick and Mcnabb last nite....stuff that ronnie and Pat could execute as well... What cribbs is doing in clevaland {a player with good formation specific skills, #2 to ronnie} is to be taken seriously.

    The formation has so much potential, as long as ronnie brown is the leader, and Pat white is his interchangable sidekick.

    Why Hate Pat white?, the kid's a frekin rookie, with a lot on his plate...I back the pick because i respect and like the vision for the formation.
     
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  24. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Most likely. He's shown a lot of talent. I kinda forgot about him, to be honest. But I think the other three WR positions are going to be seeing a turnover.
     
  25. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    :sigh:

    Pat White has been asked to do basically one thing this year: run the ball. He's shown he isn't as good at doing that against pro competition as he was against college competition.
     
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  26. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    I think he meant Ginn has sucked intermittently.
     
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  27. dukane5

    dukane5 New Member

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    TOTALLY agree....they are asking a lot of him....a package of plays and be prepared to lead the team at a moments notice...much more than the majority of 1st year NFL quarterbacks. Henne is a keeper, for a long time....but I believe White and his strengths add a dimension to our team. IMHO I would prefer him as our back up (even long term) versus Beck, McCown, Lemon, etc...
     
  28. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Pat White in a multi purpose, play maker role was a reach at #44.....as a back up QB, it's the worst pick this FO has made yet to date.

    Looking forward to the day they wake up
     
  29. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    What formation is that tho?..........he's not even part of the wildcat. He's got his own spread offense thing, where they call college plays that for the most part, look like a waste of time.

    I want nothing to do with Pat White becoming part of our bag of tricks nor do I want him being developed as a drop back passer.

    I'd like to see them start working with him on returning kicks/punts and at WR.....to me anything else is a waste of our time and that high 2nd round pick. Drafting back up QB's and situational players in the second round is how you end up with holes in your line up.
     
  30. eric

    eric New Member

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    and im looking forward to the day you give up on making a QB into a WR simply because he can scramble. ive never seen some one so adamant about something with absolutely nothing to back up their assumptions.
     
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  31. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    not to be a jerk BUT with all the things we have that we could be talking about why bring up a couple guys that have had little to no impact on our team?
     
  32. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    No way Hartline is going anywhere. The guy is a good ST player and is going to have over 30 catches by the time the season is over. I see him as a 40-50 catch a season type of guy.
     
  33. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    It's way to early to start complaining about lack of production from these players. For Turner, it usually takes WR's 3 seasons to really come into their own and reach their potential. A guy like Roddy White didn't get to that level until his 4th year, so give him some time. Not all players can waltz into this league and make a name for themselves.

    In White's case it's a bit different, while he still deserves the patience that other players get, he's really a man without a position. He's not a very good QB prospect to begin with, Henne is our man for the future, where does that leave White? Did we spend a precious 2nd rounder on a backup QB or are we going to try White somewhere else? If we play him at WR, we spent a 2nd rounder on a WR with zero experience at the position, so it may take him much longer to reach his potential than a player who has played the position since highschool.

    So you may not see instant results, but that doesn't mean that the players aren't capable. Give them time, have some patience and we'll see how they pan out.
     
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  34. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Guys, keep the comments civil and on-topic. Thanks
     
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  35. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Yeah what happened to that bum Carson Palmer his first season. High draft pick, no production, no projection, no nothing.

    Sitting on the bench a year isnt always a bad thing.
     
  36. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    While I don't think he meant that at all, I can agree with you about Ginn.
     
  37. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    That's not true, he had a very good 3rd year. His 4th year was barely better.

    Vincent Jackson took 4 years however. Same for TJ Houshmandzadeh. And Hines Ward. And Mushin Muhammad. And Donald Driver.

    But Roddy White was very good in year 3.
     
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  38. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Great promise?

    I can only say why Pat White is no longer a factor because Brown went down. Turner what is there to say about Turner if he can't get open in at practice?
     
  39. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    My bad, I thought it was White that took a little longer than usual. Thanks :up:
     
  40. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    1. Chad Henne is our long-term starter, barring injury.
    2. Pat White is no Carson Palmer. He's not even Arnold Palmer.
     

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