1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Non-Christian thread

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by Darkoak, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    71,814
    42,975
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I appreciate your attempt to smooth this over. However, I respectfully say you're wrong. First things first, I haven't made statements about racing. I personally find the practices involved, wrong, but I will admit to the fact that it is debatable as torture. What I've spoke on was animal fighting, specifically dog fighting. It is, simply, not my opinion that you can participate in dog fighting AND still respect the animals involved. It is fact. One need to look no further than the definitions of "torture" and "respect".

    Torture- n. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

    Respect-n. esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability

    Now, you said it was my opinion that the techniques used in dog fighting are torture. Well, that isn't true. Starving, beating and baiting dogs is absolutely torture, as is electrocuting, drowning, etc. (some of the things Vick did). There is no honest way to consider these things as anything but torture, going by the definition of the word.

    As far the matching up of definitions for "torture" or "respect", well, that is simply a bogus argument. Anyone can claim, a word means one thing or another, but the actual definition is inarguable. If it weren't we'd have no semblance of language, with everyone making up their own definitions to words. Now, people who partake in this "sport" of animal fighting, may say they respect the animal, but they are not using the true definition of respect. Which isn't valid. Simply put, it is impossible to torture something you respect, inasmuch, as it is impossible for parallel lines to intersect. The second the lines cross they can no longer be considered parallel. The second you torture an animal you can no longer claim to respect it. The definitions of these words are not compatible, and absolutely, show this to be fact.
     
  2. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,464
    9,905
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    Oh well I tried, but "although you stated the people involved would not agree with you" that these people involved do not view it as torture when it comes to dog fighting....or any animal involved sport. It is a sport and therefore they in their mind are not torturing - they are training and teaching the dog to fight. They use tactics you personally deem as torture...but they view it as training.

    Again, I am jumping out of the debate since its a no win situation when opinions are confused with attempted statements of fact. The language doesnt change, the definitions do not change...what changes and always will is the perception of what language and what definitions are applied and by whom.

    And that is my opinion of this discussion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2008
    gafinfan and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    33,694
    23,827
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    In the definition you provided it stated that torture, to be torture has to be a means of getting information, confessions or for sheer cruelty.

    By the definition you provided, what Vick did was not torture. He wasn't doing it for sheer cruelty, he wasn't doing it to get information or confessions.

    Again, you used your opinion to add to that definition as to what Vick was doing was torture.

    Plus you didn't show that to be fact because you can respect someone and try to get information out of them through torture. There is a place where a person could have an esteem sense of worth for his ability to take the pain.

    "Johnny had great respect for Billy for his ability to go through hours of his torture without giving up any information"

    That is not a false sentence by the definitions that you provided. Using thing logic of those definitions, it is true that you can have respect for something you torture
     
  4. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

    31,582
    17,137
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    Gentleman.. let's bring this thread back onto subject please.. if you wish to discuss torture, start a new thread.
     
    PhinsRock and Celtkin like this.
  5. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    6,763
    2,351
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Lakeland, FL
    Damned nonbelievers...can't even argue right! :lol:
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    33,694
    23,827
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    we just like torture ;)
     
  7. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Like of the readers of this thread?







    Sorry I tried to resist but it was hurting me!
     
  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    33,694
    23,827
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Sorry about that. I tend to attract conversations where the person seems to be arguing a completely different point and yet is still kind of on the point.
     
  9. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    and I apologize for going for the cheap laugh, it was just soooooooooooooooooooo tempting!

    This thread can be about what ever you communally decide it should be about. Like any thread if two or three folks tend to monopolize the converstaion then it has likely run its course. This still has lots of room for people to move it wherever it will go.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2008
  10. quelonio

    quelonio Season Ticket Holder

    1,595
    727
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    Sorry for creating an off topic discussion. But I figured that in a discussion in a thread that has no strong religious figure (as in most of us here would accept God exists, but we do not declare a knowledge of this particular god figure) then the important discussion would be mostly one of morals and ethics (given that we lack the mythical, for lack of a better word, part of the conversation)... sorry I brought animals into the conversation.
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    33,694
    23,827
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    no problem. Still, how many dolphins had to die to make your avatar? think of that?
     
  12. quelonio

    quelonio Season Ticket Holder

    1,595
    727
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    one me thinks... and darkmistress did the dirty work for that one. So she got a better count.
     
  13. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Glad to see this thread get back "on topic", now it might get interesting. :lol:
     
  14. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Ever been to the circus and watch the guy in the cage with the Lions and Tigers? A man (or woman) against a bull bred for the ring takes it to a whole different level. When I was much younger and in the Navy, while in Spain, I went. They don't always kill the bull. And the times when they plan on doing that it's not always the bull that gets the short end of the stick.

    Sorry guys I guess I should have read all the way thru before adding my thoughts on bull fighting. Now back to you DarkOak.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2008
  15. Soundwave

    Soundwave Phins Sympathizer..

    7,855
    3,221
    113
    Apr 15, 2008
    Lets be honest here. We never went because we were, umm... 'under the weather' :lol:
     
  16. Darkoak

    Darkoak Gone for good.

    7,449
    2,003
    0
    Apr 4, 2008
    True that, I don't think I'd go now though.
     
  17. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 New Member

    13,099
    6,464
    0
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ
    so.........would this be the place to discuss foot worship?
     
    Fin D likes this.
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    33,694
    23,827
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    If you believe that foot worships gets you closer to the source of everything or if you believe foot worship is proof that god doesn't exist.
     
  19. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 New Member

    13,099
    6,464
    0
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ
    there's a guy i work with who definitely believes the first part.
     
    HardKoreXXX likes this.
  20. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

    20,467
    14,230
    113
    Apr 2, 2008
    Coral Springs, FL
    If thats the case then theres no way he believes the second part :lol:

    Innuendo is fun :hi5:
     
    Sethdaddy8 likes this.
  21. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    9,655
    3,165
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Austin TX
    There is actually going to be a big bullfight here in Houston coming up, no killing of the animals. Lots of scholarships and such being given out, kinda an extension of the Houston Liveshock Show and Rodeo, though that ended awhile back. That kind of thing is still pretty big around here :up:
     
  22. Darkoak

    Darkoak Gone for good.

    7,449
    2,003
    0
    Apr 4, 2008
    I think it's time to get this thread back on track.:lol:
     

Share This Page