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The Offensive line

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by 2socks, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Well then that's part of the problem. WTF. Get some damn athletes in here instead of these fat guys who can only play one position. Will it take longer - sure. But the possibilities that open up due to injury out weigh the effort. We don't need them all to play more then one position, just a couple
     
  2. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    4 more Nate Garners and we should be OK. But seriously, I hope they bring McKinnie back.
     
  3. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Sounds like a post that need's to be sent to Coach Philbin. Sense all of it involves scheme and system modification to fit the talent they have.

    It takes time to find situational players. The average hit rate for any player drafted at any position (starter) is 1 in 3, maybe 1 in 4. Because we need so many players, this fact in itself, ends up making this a multi - year process. Couple it with the fact that these guys are looking for players who won't "break the bank" and we have the making's of a real problem.

    This type of adjusting is not Philbin and Companies strong point. It seems we have our work cut out for us. We also will now have a new OC, in effect starting from scratch. (2 yrs of learning curve down the toilet). Philbin has had a year of input on the last draft and it appears that we may have actually went backwards. Now we have to factor in the tension between knowing this is your last chance and the Tension of Ireland vrs Philbin and we have the making of ....well I will leave that for you to decide
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I know people want to be optimistic. And I know that people can make a "sum of the parts" argument for why Miami can't be any worse in 2014 than they were in 2013.

    But the fact of the matter is whenever we seem to reach this point in the off season where something is clearly not working and we are forced to make a decision whether to go in a different direction altogether, or to make half-cocked, purely cosmetic changes based on this feeling that we have to hold onto something...it always ends poorly for Miami.

    In 2004 we refused to cross the rubicon even though we could all see that things were not progressing in the right direction with Dave Wannstedt. The big "answer" that off season ended up being purely cosmetic. Personnel authority was shifted from boss (Wannstedt) to underling (Spielman), and Miami hired a new offensive coordinator. A backup QB was brought in to compete with Jay Fiedler (and he promptly lost that competition). People can blame Ricky Williams for the resulting 4-12 season but that's a poor excuse. Ricky Williams could have gone out there and he'd have had the same ineffective season he had in 2003 and we'd have lost just as many games, maybe 1 or 2 fewer.

    In 2007 we had a unique situation as Nick Saban LEFT which you would think would absolutely just force the team to head in a new direction, to put everything on the line...but they refused. Even though 2006 was a highly disappointing year, there was this push to hold tightly onto things that we had built, namely the defense under Dom Capers and the front office under Randy Mueller. Essentially all of our head coach interviews were told that Capers was going to stay on and coach the defense regardless, and that Mueller was going to stay on and run the personnel department. The resulting strategy ended up being let's do what we can to surgically change the one thing we don't like (the offense) while holding onto everything else. Except football doesn't work like that, and we went 1-15 under Cam Cameron.

    In 2011 we came to this situation yet again. Things were definitely going ill for Tony Sparano and even Bill Parcells had fled like a rat from a sinking ship. Do we go a completely new direction? Do we hire a Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden or Jim Harbaugh? Or do we "stay the course" and make some more targeted, cosmetic change by swapping out a few assistants? We did the latter. Out with Dan Henning, in with Brian Daboll. We brought in another backup QB to "compete" with Chad Henne (a competition which never really fleshed out in camp). Miami started the year by losing 7 straight games. They'd have lost more than 10 games that year if Todd Bowles hadn't taken over as interim Head Coach.

    So here we are...again. Here we're sensing that the team is not progressing...again. That we need a new direction on offense...again. That we kind of like some parts of the defense...again. That we don't want to lay waste to all of the personnel machinations we've built...again. Do we bite the bullet and jump in a completely new direction? Do we cross the rubicon?

    No. Cosmetic changes only. We're changing the OC on a team whose offense was architected by the Head Coach. There may be a "shakeup" in the front office but at most it'll be Ireland being fired and Gaine promoted. Another cosmetic change.

    So don't be surprised if the Miami Dolphins are much worse in 2014 than the "sum of the parts" predictions that will be made prior to the season...much as the 2004, 2007 and 2011 Dolphins were a lot worse than those preseason arguments.
     
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  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How's he possibly 1-4?
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Interesting Miami's most successful years since 2004 are the years where they dumped everyone and started anew. Which were both of the winning seasons. The 11-5 year, first year under Sparano, and 9-7, first year under Saban.
     
  7. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    ....and why wasn't that success sustained?

    Because they never completely addressed the real problem.....personnel selection. It's the same problem we have today with our idiot GM.
     
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  8. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Absolutely. I was going to save pointing that out for a new post, lol.

    But yeah, change brings positive improvements. That's just the way it goes. The more thorough the change it seems the more drastic the improvement. Look around the league and new head coach hires generally get their teams 2 more wins the very next year. That's probably not a coincidence as head coach changes often happen when a team is at a cyclical low.

    The most drastic changes we've made were 2005 and 2008, for sure. We changed all sides of it from personnel to the way the organization is run to the offensive and defensive systems as well as the man doing the leading.

    I think 2012 was a significant change, but the back office stuff didn't change. The way the organization was run didn't change. The personnel pickers didn't change. But we've still gotten a positive improvement from the change. We're just sensing that it's stagnating, that perhaps we may begin cycling downward again.

    I think perhaps the days where we expect a brand new regime and brand new direction to result in a LOSS of wins and a loss of immediate success...are probably over. They were probably the result of the league still being clueless about how to manage rosters in a salary cap environment. Now that salary cap management across the league has reached a point of maturity, change is generally just bringing about positive improvements in records.
     
  10. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Alex Gibbs if you can get him
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    To add to it, my plan was to prove you wrong and write a post on how I disagreed with you. Then I looked it up and got egg on my face.

    I think I might be living too much in the past where big changes causes losses in the next season. With the salary cap AND the new rookie contract system, the difference between a good team and a bad team big enough anymore to give people the time to see if they can turn it around.

    I wonder how many teams in the last 10 years have gone two years of mediocrity and then became good without any changes to head coach or GM. The only team I can think of is the Seahawks and a lot of that is them lucking into a really good quarterback.

    Seems to be all you need for success in the NFL is a good GM, good enough coach and a Quarterback.

    Right now Miami has a poor to mediocre GM, a poor to average and a Quarterback.

    Because of your post I now think that the only reason they were 8-8 was because they had a decent quarterback and if Tannehill pulled a Chad Henne, they would have been 6-10 or worse.

    I am now 100% behind fire them all.
     
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  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Not well, and he has only ever played left tackle since entering the league. Not one snap anywhere else. So, we even need to ask if this 34 yr old always been LT could be moved to LG? For what purpose?
     
  13. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Pouncey has been his 1 very successful OL draft pick.
     
  14. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Didn't he briefly play RT for Baltimore?
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The Carolina Panthers have become the new shield for those in Miami's current situation, IMO. They were 6-10 and then 7-9, and now they've got a 1st round bye.

    So it's not impossible. If you've got the right quarterback (Cam Newton) then as you said...there's a good chance. Is Ryan Tannehill destined to be that good? Guess we'll find out.

    But it SHOULD be noted that 6 wins and 7 wins are 4 and 5 more wins than the Carolina Panthers got prior to the hiring of Ron Rivera. Maybe that's a little unfair...they get such low comps that the 6-10 and 7-9 seasons look impressive. But at the same time, that's the hole they started from so it had to be hard to squeeze an average of 4.5 more wins per year out of the team in 2011 and 2012 considering what they started with, and considering the GM stayed on.

    They finally ditched that GM in 2013 and the new guy went and snagged a bunch of guys that are making genuine impacts. Star Lotulelei, Kawann Short, Quintin Mikell, Drayton Florence, Melvin White, Michael Mitchell and Ted Ginn (yes, I know) have all been significant positive performers for them and they were all brought in this year.

    That's really the model for Miami. That's why I haven't closed the book. If Ryan Tannehill really is a Cam Newton type of quarterback and Miami makes a change at the GM spot (maybe Gaine could do better, who knows?)...then all it would take is some impactful new additions using the insight of the new guy, along with some of the old guys that perform well that were previously acquired, and if the new guy has formed a cohesive roster maybe it all works.

    But...IMO...chances are slim.
     
  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you're doing the distinction between Parcells/Ireland thing, we know Parcells did the '10 draft.
     
  17. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    the Oline needs more nasty to it moving forward. That's all I'm sayin.
    The Chargers lost Nick Hardwick at center Sunday and even with their backup entering the game their interior line steamrolled Cincy's front. We need at least one combination of players we can do that with in the ever important short yardage & goal line situations that we suck balls at as Chris mentioned. I think RG-RT would be the easiest and best way to do it, which is why I like Chad Rinehart & La'el Collins...... and a mobile enough LG like Jamon Meredith who can pull and get in on the action.
     
  18. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    It should also be pointed out that the guy who went 2-14 (which was an obvious outlier for Carolina and Fox during his career there) is currently the coach that has gone 13-3 in each of the past two years in Denver (not exactly 13-3 this year, but he's the head coach even if Jack Del Rio filled in for a short time). Fox had two 11-5 seasons in Carolina but was essentially a 7-9 to 8-8 coach while in Carolina. Has he suddenly gotten better, or does he simply have better players now?
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think I still favor Anthony Collins and Rodger Saffold, especially for the current staff.

    Actually Anthony Collins is just a damn good idea for any staff, IMO.
     
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  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Quarterback.

    Also, coaches that have been around the same team for a long time can absolutely lose their edge and re-gain it with a new organization. Happening with Andy Reid right now.
     
  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    No we don't. They both contributed. Ireland wasn't relegated to fetch the coffee and donuts, while Parcells was doing everything else.
    Someone said Ireland was 0 for 4 on picking offensive linemen. I
     
  22. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Saffold seems too injury prone.
     
  23. justaguy

    justaguy New Member

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    That's what frustrates me so much about this team; we are soooooo close, and yet we look so far away. There are so many things that could be done if we had the right people in place to do it.
     
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  24. justaguy

    justaguy New Member

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    I was just using Scarnecchia to illustrate how inexperienced we are at that coaching position, and it seems to be openly excepted by our coach. It's maddening. I would rather see someone like Richmond Webb as our OL coach.
     
  25. Killer B's

    Killer B's Junior Member

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    Funny looking back Ireland was still GM in January. I also doubted we'd have a decent oline. Then we hire a new GM and its fricken Dennis Hickey hired not long before the draft, no way. Then he drafted James and signed Albert and I thought ok maybe we'll only look like crap the first 6 games if they gel and by some miracle the oline becomes average.

    Heck I have many doubts about Philbin and Hickey to this day. But I gotta give Hickey a high-five and I have to respect the coaching staff for giving us an above average oline, in my opinion, for the first 8-10 games. That was a significant improvement over 2013. But what the heck do I know, I should probably stick to engineering.
     
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  26. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Ahhh yes, the ole' I'm an engineer therefor I am smarter then you

    end of conversation - Have a great day
     
  27. Killer B's

    Killer B's Junior Member

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    Sensitive are we? The "I'm an engineer" was to say I don't know squat about making football decisions so I'll stick to what I know. Have no idea what you're profession is but I'm sure it's a noble one.

    Any thoughts on what you said back in January?
     
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  28. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Haha...that guy has a history of getting highly offended and trolling anyone that happens to casually share personal information.

    I did the same thing and the dude went nuts...he's still doing it actually. ;)
     
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