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Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by schmolioot, Jul 7, 2014.
I did read it. You ignore me? Your loss.
You all do know that Golden State is gonna hit 40 Threes in their next 3 games and eliminate the Grizz, and thus "Old school" fan here won't show himself in this thread? right?
Cavs and Bulls are 2-2. If the Cavs did not have their 3 pt. Attempt numbers so high...they would have been SWEPT already. See..it works both ways.
You can trace playoff success the last 4 years, to three simple stats: 3 pt. att. per 100 poss., 3 pt. % diff., and 3 pt. FGM.
I wonder what those three things have in common? Maybe that the last 3 champions were the Mavs, Heat, Heat and Spurs and all three were Spectacular 3 pt. shooting teams.
Since you're just itching to get called out on your BS, where are your stats? Post the stats for those figures you claim were the difference makers.
I'll explain what the real difference makers were. Pop, Spo and Carlisle are the longest tenured coaches in the NBA...
The Heat lacked experience as a comprehensive unit when they lost to the Mavs (first year together) and LJ got shut down with a zone defense. Take a look at that original roster...
The Heat went on a tear for a while with what could've been a dynasty (not much to read into there).
The Spurs have continuity, hall of famers across the board that were rested, depth and amazing passing.
Now please do post those tell-all stats you adore so much.
No matter how you look at it, every sport in inside-out. LJ and Duncan open up the floor for the shooters. Watch LJ penetrate then dish out an assist. The play action pass is set up by the run. You don't throw deep passes to open the running game.
Wizards need Wall back...
I'm not cherry picking anything, friend. What I said is factual. They shot more three's than 26 other teams over the course of the 82 game season. What's "old school" about that?
You can argue what you want, but if you're bringing up statistics, sample size is important. Three games isn't very relevant. However, the Rockets haven't shot more than two 3-pointers than the Clippers in any Clippers win this series. The Clippers shoot a ton of 3's.
I love that Phil Jackson was on twitter all day today mocking the three point reliant teams failures during the playoffs.
You're failing to acknowledge that the Rockets shot even more threes than the Clippers and are getting spanked.
The Clippers get wide open threes because of penetration. They don't actively seek to take a bunch of threes like the Rockets.
Just for perspective the Clippers only took 2 more threes per game than the 13th ranked team.
Your claim is insignificant.
4 words: Make the free throws. I don't care how in entertaining it is to some, it's a legit strategy. They did it to every great big who ever played. Shaq, wilt, Duncan has had it done, Ewing during his rookie year. Make. The. Free. Throws. Than it'll stop.
Speaking of condescending.
Golden State up 20. They lost at home already in this series which will probably be the only time that happens. Memphis doesn't have the outside shooting to respond to the onslaught from GS.
Gotta love that Phil Jackson and I think alike. I'm rooting for him to acquire some talent to run the triangle offense to end this weak stuff.
Yeah, with that worst season in Knicks history. A true visionary, making the Knicks tank in a weak draft.
I was being polite until you said "friend". It's hard to read tone and I apologize if you weren't being disingenuous but you still can't argue that the Clippers shot nearly the same amount as a middle ranked NBA team so I wouldn't say they shot a " ton of threes" as you claimed.
Are you seriously doubting Phil Jackson's basketball IQ?
He missed out on Kerr (his first choice, that should tell you everything about his judgment) and the roster he inherited wasn't enough to win so he decided it was best to clean the slate.
It's called bottoming out to get better. It's the best way to acquire top end talent in the nba...high pick + tons of cap space each of the next two years + Carmelo and Phil. Get your shots in now. Play time will be over shortly when Phil makes the league his ***** again.
Finally someone with some sense in this thread.
He didn't miss out on Kerr...Kerr didn't want to run the triangle or work for Dolan (the latter of which I can't blame him for). So Phil did a solid for his former player who wanted all along to stay out west with his family.
I said all along Fisher was his first choice
Preach. I guess everybody in this thread started watching basketball once the Big Three era started here in Miami or they somehow forgot about his 11 rings.
Thanks. Plus I don't even want to think about the message it sends to kids and players at the lower levels.
Can't make free throws? Dont worry about it...we'll just make sure they can't back you intentionally. Only a wimp would think that way. Sink or swim...either you can play and execute or you can't. It's basketball not rocket science.
For those of you who disagree with me about basketball: https://mobile.twitter.com/philjackson11
It wasn't disingenuous. Anyway, if they shot the more than 26 other teams, I'm not sure what you're arguing. Context is everything in sports and contextually, they do shoot a ton of three's.
I'm really not even sure what you're arguing against. The three movement isn't about taking more threes just to take more threes. It's about eliminating inefficient contested midrange jump shots when possible and taking open threes in their place. No "three ball aficionado" would argue that an ISO contested three is a good shot.
Nah some are legit heat fans who follow it religiously. There are definitely some bandwagon fans. It's going to be mostly a heat crowd because it's a dolphins message board and most are fine with the fact me and fin o are knick homers, there's a couple of cavs fans who stuck with em and there's a rockets fan or two.
My point is the Clippers shot an average amount of threes. They shot two more per game than the 13th ranked team.
The bread and butter of the Clippers is lobs, post play, pick and roll and floaters with the occasional open three.
I have no problem with taking an open three over a long two but I do have a problem with the Rockets taking over 32 threes per game with an analytics guy as their GM. It's so ridiculous it's not even funny.
I fear this is going to be a trend since they experience success in the regular season. Don't even get me started on the flopping mentality in the NBA, especially with James Harden.
At the end of the day, if you fully buy into this line of thinking the way Morey has, what you get is a team that gets rocked in the playoffs by a quality team like the Clippers.
Knicks?? Pshh!! Crimson and gold inside and out!!
Buddy...you are out of your depth here.
Post the stats? Sure...go to any advanced stat site...go to nbastuffer.com, go to the NBA stats portal, go to boxscoregeeks.com, go to ESPN's advanced stat portal (pay site), go to wagesofwins.com and go to teamrankings.com.
it's 2015. I am not coming down from the mountain with some revolutionary thinking here. The game is perimeter oriented now. The successful teams defend the three, shoot the three with more volume, and shoot the three at higher percentages than the rest.
As they move on toward the conference finals? Phil Jackson's dope smoking days are catching up with him.
I don't see the stats that back up what you said in an earlier post. "Money" talks, BS walks. Where are those stats?
We will find out when his rebuild is complete (or at least has more pieces). IMO, much like a great pocket QB, the best NBA teams will always have elite bigs. It's simply the way it is. Field goal percentage goes down...chances of winning go up. Easiest way to keep field goal percentage down...protect the rim.
And to be clear it's "as they limp weakly towards the conference finals in a weak watered down year..."
Lebron will LeFail.
Simple 3 pt. made Diff. Top 5 teams:
2 Golden State
5 San Antonio
That top 5 is guaranteed to have at least 1 and likely TWO of the final four...
so..let's take simple 3 pt. Attempts per game....
2 Golden State
5 San Antonio
That top six is GUARANTEED at least 1, likely THREE of the final four! In fact..THREE are favored to advance to the final 4.
Okay..surely this is coincidence right? This just proves you have to shoot threes well in the playoffs right? Ok..... Let's try Point differential from the 3 pt. line for the remaining playoff teams for the WHOLE season:
#1 Golden State
#2 LA Clippers
LOL! Of the 8 teams LEFT...SIX! are in the top 8 in pt. diff. from the 3 pt. line! SIX! The other two are ranked 9th and 14th overall! The only team not in the playoffs still from the top 5 is San Antonio..but we know that's because they suck...right? or could it be because they ran into a team that shot the three better than THEY DID?
yeah...I made my point...emphatically. Again..this is common knowledge. COMMON KNOWLEDGE. it isn't 1997. Shoot the three well..defend it well...success.
Here is the top 5 in Composite Efficiency ratings (Def., Off, Pace, Def. Reb., Reb. rate, TS%, TO%, Ast %):
#1 Golden State
#2 LA Clippers
#3 San Antonio
Compare it to the 3pt. rankings...and then compare it to where they are RIGHT now in the playoffs.....uh..yeah...they all seem to have SOMETHING in common....
Golden State and the LA Clippers are the antithesis of what Phil Jackson is talking about. They are the likely WC finalists. I don't think Phil Jackson knows what won him titles.
His last Two Title teams? #2 and #6 in Pt. Diff. from the 3 pt. line.
I can already tell your stats are off. The Rockets attempted the most threes per game during the regular season.
Should I go for the gusto and check out those Bulls teams? I don;t have that data...but let's check Phil's three peat Lakers....
oh..would you look at that...The Three Peat Lakers ranked...#1 (2000), #8 (2001) and #2 (2002) those three years in pt. Diff. from the 3 pt. line.
Phil Jackson can't read a stat sheet evidently. He won at least 5 of his 11 titles out shooting his opponents from the 3 pt. line.
I can already tell you have issues reading. The first stats posted were the three point shooting in the playoffs. The last one was for the regular season. it was clearly stated. Just say you were enlightened, say thank you for the information and move on.
The Last 4 Finals opponents in pt. Diff. from 3 pt. line:
10-11: Miami #1, Dallas #8
11-12: Miami #4, OKC #3
12-13: Miami #2, SA #4
13-14: Miami #4, SA #1
At this point..I am clubbing a baby seal...you all get the point. Shoot and defend the three well kids...if you want to win things....
Yeah, right. Of course you didn't mention the Rockets attempted the most threes during the regular season because that wouldn't jive with your predetermined conclusion.
Of course some of the top teams are gonna be better than the rest of the league at shooting threes but it doesn't mean it's their identity. Like I mentioned before the Clippers ranked #6 during the regular season in three pointers attempted but only took 2 more per game than the #13 ranked team. If you believe that's significant, I can't talk any sense into you.
If you want to convince anybody that shooting threes better than any other team is THE most important, you'd have to ignore all the other stats that teams are best in like FG%, turnover differential, points in the paint, whatever. The stats as a whole tell the entire story, not just one as you claim.
You are just fixated on the Rockets for whatever reason. The Clippers took 2.3 more per game than the 13th ranked team, but made 38% of them. the 13th ranked team (Boston) made 33%.
2.3 per game more is 189 more attempts in a season. YES..THAT IS SIGNIFICANT. Especially when you make them at a +5% clip from the 13th ranked team (which is an arbitrary benchmark, but hey..it's your benchmark).
There are many indexes that dictate success. I have my own that are very predictive. But ONCE again...the point remains. The successful teams hit threes and defend against them. There is no debate about that. Period. History says so.
and yeah..the Rockets attempted the most threes. They got the #2 seed in the West and are in the second round, losing to a team that attempted the 5th most. and WHAT? The Team that attempted the 5th most is better.