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Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by SICK, Mar 15, 2014.
He's locked in for a while yet. That extension he signed was terrible
Already posted my reasons why a few posts after the post you quoted me on. I think it's fair market value too but think the Marlins are the wrong team to be giving out a contract like this unless this is a sign ownership is ready to increase payroll and keep it increased.
I can't see how you shell out this much money on a player without planning to significantly increase the payroll and keep it there. That would be a waste of money and bad business. It also wouldn't bring any more fans to the ballpark.
There were rumors Stanton's reps were trying to get language put into the contract that stated the Marlins would have to spend competitively, if I'm not mistaken.
Hopefully this is all a precursor to Loria selling the team.
Fixed that for you. Although, I'd be plenty happy if even the first part were true.
Yes. The RIGHT kind of Discounted for once.
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Ownership spent tons of money on the 2010 season and then dumped all of those contracts the next year. Not saying that's what they would do that with Stanton but Ownership needs to prove it not just say it.
Which was the right move, seeing how all of those guys aren't really good anymore.
This is all that should matter.
Fair market value? Who's giving out 13 year contracts?
That said, I'd rather have Stanton than not. I just don't want this contract to become a "get out of acquiring and retaining really good players because Stanton is expensive" card.
Yeah, fair market value. If anything it might be slightly under market value.
Miguel Cabrera is signed through age 41. Cano through age 41. Pujols through 41. Votto through 40. Arod through 41. Fielder through 39, etc. And the grand majority of these contracts are paying these players for years that are past their prime. We're getting Stanton right as he's entering his prime.
Consider that Stanton would be getting $30 million over the next two years regardless of contract because of arbitration, that effectively makes the contract 11 years/$295 million, or ~$26.5 million annually. That's a steal. Is the contract long? Absolutely. But with the amount of money entering the game through TV deals, and at the rate that payrolls are rising, $30 million even 5 years from now isn't going to be a super exorbitant amount.
And we have a lot of room to operate payroll wise. If we took the 2014 team and paid Stanton $30 million, we'd still be 29th in payroll. If Loria doesn't plan to get the payroll up into the #20-#15 range, then this extension makes literally no sense. He'd be losing $300m+ for nothing.
I'm of the belief that he plans to raise it to more acceptable levels. There's zero reason to give out anymore huge contracts besides Stanton. Be smart mid-level players, pay your guys, and be perpetually competitive.
Mainge sums that up pretty well here:
I think that Loria is willing to spend money if he thinks he's getting something big in return. He spent all of that money in 2010 and got a crap sandwich. So instead of continuing to pay for that crap sandwich he cut his losses and tried to start over growing their own talent with the idea of eventually adding payroll to supplement that. In the end, like Mainge said, that trade actually ended up as a win for the Marlins. As it stands today, Henderson Alvarez is the best player in that Mia - Tor deal. I agree Loria need to show commitment before anyone should buy into him, but I just cannot see how Loria spends all that money on one player if he intends to cheap out on the rest of the team. That makes zero sense. It is simply wasting your money, and bad business, and Loria may be a lot of things, but one thing he isn't is a bad businessman.
Something about us having the highest paid player in the league just sounds wrong even though keeping Stanton is so right.
Not debating that it was the right move long term for the franchise however it's completely fair to question the motives of the ownership group and be a bit skeptical of them.
Also let's not pretend that Reyes and Buehrle weren't good for the Marlins in 2012. They were and their years were pretty similar to their career averages and they've been fine since being traded too. Bell was a disaster but everyone thought it was a poor signing the minute he signed the contract.
I never said it wasn't fair to be skeptical of the ownership group. In fact, I said "I agree Loria needs to show commitment before anyone should buy into him". I just said I think it's unlikely that they spend this money on Stanton only to field garbage around him.
I also never said Reyes and Buehrle weren't good. I said that team played poorly. And if you have a team that isn't any good, why pay big contracts for players? If anything, that would probably support my claim about what they will do with Stanton. Why pay Stanton that much if they're still going to be bad?
He won't even be the highest paid player annually.
Buerhle had an ERA+ of 109 with us, his second lowest ever at the time. Buerhle's ERA+ since he's been in Toronto has been 106. That's fine, but that's not worth $20 million a year. Not even close.
Same with Reyes. He's missed 88 games and has a .747 OPS in his time with Toronto. Not close to $22 million annual value.
I'm wondering why you're just spewing nonsense here like you're Padre all of the sudden. You're usually much more informed.
Haha good post, seriously made me laugh.
I don't think anything I've said is nonsense. You might not agree, which is fine. I think it's completely fair to question the size of the contract and whether or not it's smart of Miami to possibly spend approximately 40% of their payroll on one player. I also think it's completely fair to question Stanton's durability too and why giving him a deal of 10 plus years would make me nervous.
Anyway I don't question Stanton's talent, he's a great player. I'm happy for him and Marlin fans that he's going to be there for the long haul.
No, I'm with you. The questions are fair. I only objected to this:
There are a few exit ramps on the highway between "certain aspects of this deal are questionable" and "this deal is incredibly dumb."
I'll add an angle that not many people have talked about: The Marlins local TV deal is crap. That's to be expected; ratings are pretty low. But once upon a time, the local TV ratings were among the top 6-7 in the league. The Marlins TV deal is up in 2020. They have 5 years to build good will, act like an actual professional sports franchise, and get the TV ratings back to where they were so we can triple (or even more multiples) TV revenue. We won't ever be the Dodgers in that regard, but Miami is a large market; there's hundreds of millions of dollars on the line in the next 5 years. You can't **** that up.
I meant in terms of overall contract. I believe it would be the highest correct? More than Cabrera.
Congrats fellas.....I am happy for ya....
Awesome. Though it means nothing if we don't add payroll. But I'd imagine they have to.
Just need Loria to sell the club
I mean if anything this year with KC has proven you can win with a limited budget. Baseball is different now, go look at the stats offensively. HR, RBI, AVG are all down to pre-roid levels. I know those are largely empty stats but it is reflective of the whole sum of it. It isn't that pitchers are better now, it is just baseball is really hard!! hahahah The roid era made putting up offensive numbers look easy when in fact it is the hardest thing to do in all of sports (hit a baseball).
My point is signing a marque offensive weapon like GS to this deal is great, especially when realistically it is a 5 year deal....
Yeah I definitely don't think we need to be the Dodgers to win. I'd still really like to see us middle of the pack payroll wise.
KC spent almost $50 million more on payroll than we did.
There's no reason we can't get to that level.
Supposedly, it's done. 13 years, $325 million. Player opt-out to after out 6 years.
Also there's a rumor that the fences are coming in, which if true I imagine is something Stanton asked for in negotiations.
Man I hope Andrew Heaney pans out... we really need our young pitchers to step it up...
Good for the Marlins. Get positive PR and avoid another Cabrera debacle, while locking up the best slugger in the majors for at least 6 years.
The team is really 2 players away from being quite good.
If Jose returns to his pre-injury form, and Henderson Alvarez keeps playing like he played last season, they're one good pitcher away from having a dominant rotation. Then, if they manage to get one more good hitter, preferably a 1st baseman or 3rd baseman, then the new hitter, Stanton, Yelich and Ozuna are good enough offense to do damage.
Stanton got a no-trade clause AND got them to move the fences in?
I need his agent to negotiate my next raise at work.
Pretty much agree. Also need to hope that Yelich and Ozuna take steps forward, and that Salty rebounds a little bit.
The infield is a big mess but options there are thin.
For real. Damn.
Yup infield needs upgrade and pickings are slim. McGeehe is surely coming down to earth and Hechavarria might have a hard time repeating his improved offensive performance, but you can live with those 2. 2nd and 1st base though are going to need to be upgraded.
I'd love for them to be serious and go after Sandoval for 1st base. That'd be a nice bat to add.
He's saying all the right things. We'll see if he delivers. I would love to see him go for it on one of the Cuban imports.
Already bought my Stanton jersey
Well they CAN'T dump Stanton....is everyone forgetting about the "no-trade" clause he got ?
Loria stated this evening that he will be looking for another bat, so they are not done just yet.
Not to mention what they got in return, is contributing heavily in the teams fortunes right now.