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****The Official 2016-2017 NBA Thread****

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Section126, Jul 1, 2016.

  1. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Wow, the Celtics are crazy. Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum/Brown, Morris, Horford is NOT a strong team of winners. Did Ainge just pull an "I'm a big man" move and make a bad trade just to say he landed a big fish? They got of a lot of role players this offseason for what is not necessarily the Eastern conference championship.

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  2. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Wow that was a stupid trade by Boston and a heck of a trade by cleveland
     
  3. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Na, they win the east just as easy next year I think. They still have the best player on earth.
     
  4. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    All things considered I don't know that a better deal for Kyrie is out there. I would not be shocked if IT was not resigned. Similarly, although I don't think LeBron leaves it would not shock me. At least that Brooklynn pick gives something to look forward to in the event that LeBron leaves. Having traded too many picks has left the cupboard quite bare going forward.

    Crowder is also on a great deal even if he is not a huge difference maker.

    Edit: I also hope Zizic can be a respectable NBA player (though that may not happen this season). I thought we needed a real backup C last year.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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  5. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Yea, getting that 1st rounder was the kicker. They can win now while building for the future. Who knew Dan Gilbert had a good move in him?
     
  6. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    If any team that made a big move fizzles before the All-Star break, Cleveland could flip that pick into firepower. If OKC, NO, Minnesota, or the like don't like the moves they've made anymore, they could bite on that as a consolation prize. It's not like Cleveland wasn't already fretting about defense at the PG position.

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  7. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Celtics were always the team that could make the best offer because of the 'This Year' piece (IT) and the picks/youth.

    Boston is just better set up for the future now. Kyrie's age fits better with Hayward, Smart, and the young guys.

    Oh and this didn't hurt:
     
  8. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Nick Friedell says Dwyane Wade is hated in the Bulls locker room. The young players have had enough of him, apparently.
     
  9. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I love this makes both teams worse. It makes the Cavs worse this year. Kyrie is better then IT. Jae Crowder is a useful role player and defender and the pick will be a nice rebuilding point for Cleveland when/if Lebron leaves. But short term, they're worse.

    And long term for the Celtics they're worse. While Kyrie is better then IT, he's going to want huge money and the Celtics lost two major assets in the Nets first and a reliable defender in Crowder.

    That said, I wonder if this opens the door for a Melo to Cleveland deal? Nets first, Crowder and Fryes expiring to Ny for Melo....
     
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  10. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agree 100%.
     
  11. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    I'd say no way you get Brooklyns pick for Melo..but if they can move Kevin Love for something good then maybe they do it. Cleveland essentially would get Melo, IT, and Jae for Kyrie Irving. That's not too bad, but I would still want to keep the pick if I was a Cavs fan.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    We say that this is a terrible deal for Boston but I kind of imagine they're in the Finals next year off this. Is that really dumb? I mean that team is really strong, and well coached.
     
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  13. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Would the Cavs have the cap space?
     
  14. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The Cavs got an unprotected pick? Great move for them. The fact that people are debating whether they are better or worse is a win, considering Irving demanded a trade after FA.


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  15. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Lol theyre definitely better... but we have yet to receive any word from Isaiah, this guy loved being a Celtic, was seen dancing/celebratinn after acquiring Gordon Hayward, and is now trying to remove the knife off his back and having to accept the fact he has to move to Gotham City.

    Regardless he will have a giant chip on his shoulder, will be extra motivated to beat the Celtics.

    Isaiah and Kyrie cancels each other out. Jae Crowder, and the pick is what makes this a robbery and great trade for cavs.

    Whats pathetic is, the celtics couldve had paul george and all they wouldve given up is that pick... now theyre relying on hayward horford and kyrie... like wth i think the wizards can beat that squad...
     
  16. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You guys are underrating Kyrie to a kind of ridiculous degree. This deal 100% makes them better, and they'll be very good for at least 2 years now.
     
  17. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Depends on if the Cavs want to go for it this year. If they do, then would they be crazy to move, Crowder, Shumpert (who really doesn't want to come back to Ny but needs to be included for salary) and Frye plus the Brooklyn pick for Carmelo? They do that and they still win the east easily and they're closer to beating GSW then they were with Kyrie.

    Kyrie alone is better then IT but IT and Melo would be > Kyrie.

    It's a smart move for Boston because Kyrie is a better long term investment than IT is imo. But giving up that Brooklyn pick hurts them long term. And Crowder is a very good role player/defender. Jaylen Brown and Tatum better be ready. After this year, IF Lebron leaves, then Boston can start to think Finals. They still won't beat GSW imo until they add more or Tatum and/or Brown emerge.

    If they include Shumpert or find a taker for that ugly deal then yes if the aforementioned pieces were included.
     
  18. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Kyrie resigns in Boston as well. He grew up in NJ, even though he's a Knicks fan, he's wanted to be in the northeast for a long time. Even though he wanted NY, my instincts tell me he stays in a winning situation especially after, NYK was pretty lukewarm on dealing for him.

    EDIT: Boston apparently agrees with me, just got this on my phone:

    Report: Kyrie thrilled to join Celtics, likely to re-sign (via http://thesco.re/theScore_App )
    https://www.thescore.com/news/1356606
     
  19. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Kyrie is good. He's flashy but flashy isn't always good for winning basketball games. I thought Thomas and Crowder really fit what they were doing.

    Is LBJ happy now? Cavs got a great deal and it includes a pick...FFS!

    Is Hayward happy? I wonder if he wanted to play with Thomas...hmm

    Cohesion with be key to how successful each of these teams get out of the trade.
     
  20. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    You think you'd get that much for Melo? Maybe 2011 Melo. I think the Brooklyn pick for Melo alone is a steal for New York.
     
  21. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I'm a huge Kyrie guy, but they have no main guy who can lead that team. They also have zero depth.
     
  22. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    This changes nothing in regards to the East until LeBron packs up and heads to Hollywood.
     
  23. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Everthing else is really to make salaries match. Shumpert has negative value as Clevelands been trying to trade that contract almost since the day Shumpert signed it. Frye is just an expiring with minimal value. Crowder is worth something but hes a role player. So all theyre really getting is Crowder and the pick...
     
  24. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He very easily could if things go well.

    I think Kyrie has a chance to be that guy, and I think Gordon could as well. If they don't have that guy now, they didn't have that guy before, and probably would have had to give IT a max deal next year so they weren't going to be able to add anyone that could be.

    As far as depth, I don't agree. Their starting 5 is:
    C: Al Horford
    PF: Marcus Morris
    SF: Gordon Hayward
    SG: Jaylen Brown
    PG: Kyrie Irving

    Their top 2 players off of the bench are Jason Tatum and Marcus Smart. That's not bad at all. And after that, you have Rozier, and a guy with upside in Ojeleye. Is that the best bench in the league? No. But it certainly isn't bad. It's probably better than Cleveland's bench.
     
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  25. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Don't feed me horse manure, and tell me it's sautéed spinach.
     
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  26. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Isn't horse manure a delicacy in Cleveland?
     
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  27. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I live in Columbus, I couldn't tell ya!
     
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  28. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    But yea,

    Korver, Jeff Green, Crowder, D Rose, Iman Shumpert are about 5X better than the Celtics bench.
     
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  29. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    You know the type of player that would be great for Boston? A 3-and-D specialist, a utility PF, and a strong defender with a solid outside jumper. They could have waited and probably gotten another player before the deadline with that Brooklyn pick.

    This is Boston punting on re-signing IT. I'm not sure about their war chest, but what can they give up for another player to be competitive with the West?

    EDIT: I hate autocorrect
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    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2017
  30. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    You named a rookie, an unspectacular role player, and two degrees of nothing much. That team has one winner and he was a complement.

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  31. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Highlights are by no means a scientific method of evaluating player performance, but did you know that Marcus Smart has zero highlight plays?

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  32. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    5x better? No way. You could make the argument that they are better, but I don't think that's a given. That is a list of player that at one point were good, but other than Crowder, none of them may be all that serviceable anymore. Tatum has all-star potential. It all depends on his development. Smart is probably about at Crowder's level, maybe just below. Depending on how things go, I could see either bench being better this year, but I think the upside is with Boston.
     
  33. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    You cray cray.

    Marcus Smart is friggin the definition of average. Crowder is a solid defender as is Jeff Green.
     
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  34. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The only thing I disagree with is the starting lineup and their bench being better then clevelands...

    The starting lineup should be:
    C: Horford
    PF: Tatum
    SF: Hayward
    SG: Brown
    PG: Kyrie

    That's a true "death lineup" designed to matchup with GSW. Bigger teams or stronger players you can give guys like Marcus Morris and Baynes more run. But Bostons bench sucks. They could do well to move a few of those late 1sts for role players.
     
  35. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Isaiah's production this past year was probably an anomaly. His numbers were so inflated relative to the rest of his career. Very doubtful he ever has another season like that. He's also coming off a bad hip.

    Meanwhile Kyrie is just entering his prime. And in my opinion is already a better player.

    It's really effing hard to go from good to great in the NBA. That's where Boston is now. For them at this stage, it makes sense to give up assets for seemingly small improvements within that core of stars. It could be the difference. They took the guy with a slightly higher ceiling and more prime years left.
     
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  36. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    They are looking at life post-Lebron in the East. The minute he leaves Cleveland? They become the huge favs.
     
  37. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I think you're ignoring certain aspects of the two players' new surroundings in order to make your point. IT last season was a high usage rate ball handler. He now moves to a team with LBJ as the primary guy. His usage will go down and he'll have far more space to work with on the floor. He also won't be played by any primary defenders as long as Lebron is on the floor. Kyrie now goes from being a complementary piece to the main guy in an offense that is less about heroes being heroes. Kyrie's FG% is 49% when he dribbles the ball 7+ times on a possession, which will be de-emphasized in Boston. Add in more defensive attention and there are potential reasons for Kyrie to not perform as well as he did in Cleveland.

    This was a home run for Cleveland any way you cut it. If it was Steph Curry instead of Kyrie, I still wouldn't think much of this Boston team. They're going to be a top 2 seed in the East but that's about it IMO.
     
  38. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    One thing i've not seen discussed is how this can affect the cavs team chemistry. Love and IT played AAU ball in Oregon together. Itll be an interesting dynamic how Lebron fits in with them
     
  39. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    I mean Kyrie's eFG% was 50+ right when he came into the League pre-LBJ. He also shot 39% from 3 in his 19 and 20 year-old seasons and quickly became a 20+ppg guy. With LeBron last year he shot 40% from 3. Let's not act like the guy just shot well because of LeBron.

    Isaiah has played 8 years in the NBA and never come close to what he did last season. That's just a plain fact. Those numbers are outliers. I would not bet on him repeating that type of efficiency and production.

    You have the usage thing backwards with IT as well. If he does less on offense, he loses value because he's so damn bad on defense.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  40. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Ray Allen has spoken so much truth on his instagram about the IT trade...

    That classless organization banned him from a championship reunion recently because he was disloyal for joining the Heat, yet it's okay to trade your star player who played a playoff game a day after his sister died in a car accident..
     

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