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****The Official 2016-2017 NBA Thread****

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Section126, Jul 1, 2016.

  1. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    If you draft to piss off other teams, you're not a professional.
     
  2. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I watch a lot of Kentucky games since my dad is a HUGE fan. Probably saw Bam play 15 times this year. I think his ceiling is pretty low.

    The Heat is my second favorite team. They got a nice player, but I can't see him turning into an all star. Hope I'm wrong.
     
  3. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    His ceiling is low just as you said. His offensive game has a low ceiling, very raw. His athleticism isnt that great. I think we go lazy with the pick, there were other raw prospects i would have rather gone after and put them in our d league. Instead we got this guy, who doesnt even fit in any way with what we have been doing.
     
  4. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think this team does anything lazily. This is a guy that can run the floor and defend. I'm sure they have a plan for him. Personally, there were a bunch of guys I'd have taken ahead of him, but I was also biting my nails when it was rumored that Pat Riley wanted Russ Westbrook or Kevin Love ahead of Beasley, and glad when it was reported that the staff basically forced Riley to take Beas. So I've learned not to doubt Riley. To me, it also looks like a low-risk move that will give them someone to take Willie Reid's spot, but FWIW nbadraft.net grades him as having high potential with a grade of 8.
     
  5. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Chad Ford's reaction:

     
  6. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I was away from my phone when the bulls trade happened and wow, they got a damn nice package for Butler. But then they blow it by drafting Lauri... what the **** lol id be going insane if im a bulls fan.

    I still believe in Kris Dunn's potential. And now he will have Wade to learn from until Wade gets bought out. I compared Dunn to Wade last year.
     
  7. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The longer OG Anunoby falls, the more I'd look into trying to trade for a pick to nab him. I doubt Miami does it, because they're in cap saving mode, but this is a guy that would have gone top 10 if he was healthy. It's pretty crazy to me that a league that values prospects so much, is willing to keep letting this guy slide because he might miss some or most of this season.
     
  8. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I probably would've gone with Jackson or a prospect like Ferguson, but whatever

    Trades and FA is where Pat earns his money
     
  9. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is hilarious, by the way:



     
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  10. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm looking at some highlights on Adebayo now. He looks like a pick n roll guy with some decent low post offense which disappointingly is a bit of a dying art now. Good rebounder and defender too - moves feet well and gets in good solid positions in both cases.
     
  11. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Interesting. I still don't see him passing up that money, but I guess it's not a done deal.

     
  12. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Yea....thats exactly how professional GM's react.

    If they didn't like the player, they wouldn't of drafted him.
     
  13. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Obviously they didn't make the move just because they wanted to spite the Heat.

    Besides, you're a Knicks fan. What do you know about how professional GM's react?
     
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  14. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I have zero snappy comebacks for that one.

    Well done.
     
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  15. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well when they're not harassing female employees like Isiah or harassing players like Phil, they're generally bland dorks like Layden or Grunwald or The Godfather like Donnie Walsh
     
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  16. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Hes not going to opt out lol his agent is going to make him stay because a buyout is guaranteed before the trade deadline
     
  17. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, that's definitely the most likely scenario. And it's probably fine with the Bulls because they aren't using that cap room this year anyway. It will be interesting to see where he goes after the buyout. Hopefully not Cleveland.
     
  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    There were reports beforehand that he shot impressively in workouts. And then during the interview he specifically mentioned that during the workouts he showed that he could shoot. I don't know anything about this guy so I'm not making a judgment one way or another, but I do agree that this team is unlikely to do anything lazily.
     
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  19. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, according to Barry Jackson, Calipari talked about that a little bit:
    That would obviously be a very big deal, if he could stretch the floor a little bit.
     
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  20. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Riley says Adebayo hit 30 of the 50 3's he took in their workout.

    Also, while this is a workout, so you can't take it completely at face value, the form on his jumper looks pretty solid here:

     
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  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I can't remember if I commented on Adebayo or not in here but I looked at him the other day and was really impressed. I wasn't expecting to be impressed, at all.

    I mean immediately you're looking at Willie Reid's replacement. At the least. There's a vision for his immediate contribution. That matters.

    But this guy is freakish on the inside. He's 243 lbs with 5% body fat...and only 19 years old! Good god. He bullies around guys on the inside that really should not be bullied. It's looney tunes. And yet his body is only going to keep getting stronger and more developed. That's scary. His strength makes Zach Collins look wimpy. And Zach Collins isn't a wimp.

    The way he moves around isn't quite like a seven foot clod of a center. He's just really built and balanced; that's why he bounces so well and plays above the rim.

    A key for him will be showing that his shot is for real. He shot 13 of 25 from deep three point range in a workout with Charlotte. He only shot ONE three pointer this year so all these people acting like his shot is "raw" or whatever, I don't know what they're even basing that on. Not film. Certainly not film, because there is no film. The workout videos of him shooting from three, his shot is actually very well structured. Surprisingly so. I'm not saying he's secretly a stretch player but with his shot looking the way it is you're not going to be surprised he shoots well from intermediate range. Or even from three.

    I look at him and I see young Serge Ibaka. He didn't start shooting a three ball until he was 5 years into the league, really. His free throw percentage for his first three seasons was about what Bam Adebayo's is, too.

    I don't think Utah traded up for Donovan Mitchell to spite the Heat. I think they traded up for him because they think Hayward is gone and they're filling the shooting void. And the Heat went forward with a Bam Adebayo in part to fill a current hole on the roster, signaling that they're trying to make the real difference in free agency (with Hayward I presume, as they've been described to be "all in" on him).
     
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  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Among the wing players mentioned for UDFA, I would go with VJ Beachem. He's lengthy at 6'8" with good verticality on his jump shot, makes it hard to defend. He's got good percentages from three in all the right situations (catch and shoot, off the dribble) to be a wing player, and yet he also has an excellent finish percentage at the rim because of his length and skill protecting the ball on the way in. He's also a good D guy that only allowed like 32% shooting from his man. He's a prototype 3 and D guy.

    Among the PGs mentioned I'd rather have Isaiah Briscoe but I'm not positive I'd be overly optimistic about it.
     
  23. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    PJ Dozier is another guy who they had in that wasn't drafted, and might be a worthwhile project.
     
  24. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Pat Riley is sounding like he's going to bring back the same team from last year. Maybe add a guy like Rudy Gay?
     
  25. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Well Wade apparently told his people he will still opt in. As expected, and a buyout will happen around january
     
  26. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Pat said they have a Plan A and Plan B, but no C, D or whatever. He also said they hope to have some answers on Day 1 of FA.

    My guess is that they either get Hayward or Griffin on July 1 or they just re-sign JJ/Dion. Both of those guys are really good but they're not LeBron or KD. They don't get to have 10 meetings and jerk you around a week

    I'm still not ruling out a trade either. George is still in Indy and the Bulls set a low bar for a trade and the LMA issue is out there as well
     
  27. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    The biggest losers this week were the Bulls.. first Wade opting in, second trading Butler for a nice package, just to end up wasting the pick on another Mirotic clone.
     
  28. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    I like the Adebayo pick given how the draft went. The 13 guys who we probably would've taken all went 1-13, with Utah jumping us for the guy we almost definitely would've taken. That was a bummer. Nobody 'slipped.'

    Bam will have a long career as a backup/rotation guy at least, imo, which fills a need. In that way this is low-risk. He has an NBA body, high motor, quick footwork, sets good screens, solid feel on D, decent touch in the paint from weird angles too, hits the O glass hard. That stuff should translate almost right away. Question is whether he ever becomes good enough to be a starter.

    Initially that was my problem: it's not THAT hard to find backup bigs. But he's a HEAT culture type with awesome athleticism. They must have caught a glimpse of something in his shot, and Kentucky is notorious for pigeonholing their players and not letting them show their full skill sets. Bam also gives us a different look defensively, compared to Hassan. He's a mobile dude who can move on the perimeter. Gives us more options guarding PnR, which is a big plus with switch-y lineups we can roll out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
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  29. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The more i watch Bam shoot, the more im reminded of Serge Ibaka. If the shooting can translate to games, i absolutely think he can be a 4 for the Heat.

    Edit: Didnt even see that CK posted the same thing a few posts up.
     
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  30. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Im pleased with the Knicks draft overall. My only complaint was taking Damyean Dotson who is basically a 3 and D type player over Thornwell at 44. Thornwell is a vastly better player imo, but maybe they see something. Clareance Gaines has a very good eye for talent so i wouldnt be surprised. Knicks also signed Nigel Hayes (F from Wisconsin) as a UFA.
     
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  31. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Wouldve loved to pick up nigel hayes here at the heat.. good move by the knicks. Shocked he went undrafted
     
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  32. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    If he does end up being Serge ibaka then thats a great pick at 14. Speaking of Serge he is probably a target this summer anyways.
     
  33. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Looks like a natural shooter unlike Winslow.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know that I'm really expecting a lot from the UDFA and Summer League guys this year.

    That's just because the pipeline is already pretty full. The Heat are full of underrated guys who probably play a little bit above their pay grade. I guess Tyler Johnson has a high pay grade now but he's still kind of part of that pipeline. As are Rodney McGruder and Okaro White, Justise Winslow and Josh Richardson, could even consider Luke Babbitt and Wayne Ellington to be in that group.

    For them it's more about getting those consistent star performances, and that's why they're going after a Gordon Hayward.

    I'm a little discouraged that Riley made it a point to disclaim that most of the quality free agents out there are going back to their old teams. Hayward is one of the most high profile free agents out there.

    When he said they have a Plan A and a Plan B then I think he was talking about getting Gordon Hayward, or bringing everyone back. He said that bringing everyone back would be a nice off season for them. That doesn't sound like the non-existent Plans C, D, or E.

    That said, quick rundown of the guys that the Heat have supposedly added thus far:

    Jamel Artis, Pittsburgh - This is my favorite guy. A 6'7" and 215 lbs player who handled a lot of point guard duties at Pitt, which is unique. Really sweet shot, very professional. High release point and good bounce which combines with his height to give him good looks even when his three pointers are contested. And I really like his balance and movement shooting off the bounce, so fluid and controlled. Shot 39% on 6 three point attempts per game, which is pretty fantastic. Drives the basket, draws a lot of fouls, and is a 76% free throw shooter. His game is very controlled, very balanced. These are code words for "not fast" and "not explosive". He's got a 25" no step vert and 31" max vert with an 8'9" standing reach. Those are OK numbers particularly because of the height, wing span (6'10") and standing reach, but clearly not super fast nor super explosive. But this is still a unique package considering how much he played directing the offense with the ball in his hands as a point guard at this size. He scored 43 points against Louisville, 32 of them in the second half single-handedly WILLING his team into competition with a much better opponent. He popped all kinds of jumpers in Donovan Mitchell's face in that game, beat him several times on drives to the basket. Louisville was too good offensively for Pitt to complete the comeback (they were down by 20 toward the beginning of the second half) but like I said Artis just willed it. With one or two minute to go fresh off Louisville re-extending the lead, he bombs a deep three, or penetrates and draws the And-1 foul at the basket, etc. And he did a lot of that on Donovan Mitchell. With 24 seconds left to go and down 8 points, Pitino no longer screwing around with zones or anything, he's got Donovan Mitchell hounding Artis full court. Artis repays him by drawing out some of the worst tape Section and I have seen of Donovan, shaking him and going coast to coast straight to the basket for a quick score like he's LeBron James. Why did he go undrafted? Because he is 24 years old and not terribly fast. That's really IT. There's no more to say than that. It doesn't matter how good he is in the face of those two issues, because that's how the NBA Draft works.

    Eric Mika, BYU
    - This is my second favorite guy. He's 6'10" and 233 lbs, big and solid with a 29" standing vertical and 32" max vertical. That's pretty impressive. Legitimate agility on the inside, and really well coordinated. I've mentioned before about guys like TJ Leaf, what don't I like about them, it's that I don't know if there's anything unique about them that I can't find elsewhere. Those guys are GOOD. But then you scroll over to an Eric Mika and you're like wait I can get THIS undrafted, so why take the other thing at 14 overall? The reason you can get Mika undrafted is similar to Jamel Artis. Mika went on LDS mission from 2014 to 2016 and so he's old, like 22 or 23 years old. He played the one year at BYU coming off mission and tore it up. He was 2nd in the WCC in points and 1st in rebounds. He helped BYU upset the at the time #1 Zags, putting some nice moves on Zach Collins along the way. He's like the Ryan Tannehill of basketball. Bigger than average. Stronger than average. More athletic than average. Better than average. And yet still...not necessarily memorable. But I don't care, I take this package in an undrafted guy for summer leagues all day. On the negative side he's like children of the corn blonde. Gets the red face when he gets excited and everything. He'll step onto South Beach and pass out. Nobody likes a pretty boy.

    Matt Williams, UCF - This is the three point ace of the Las Vegas summer league team. Other guys have a higher percentage but Williams shot NINE three pointers per game and made 38.5% of them. You have to be able to create your shot to do that because everyone knows what you're trying to do. Sure enough, lots of step-back threes, and threes from WAY beyond the break. We're talking like Steph Curry range (obviously not saying he's got Steph Curry skill though). Most guys we're happy if they shoot moderately well in an unguarded catch and shoot situation. He probably wishes he could get more of those because everything he does is running off the screen, contested, way behind the line, step-back, etc. Quick shot, fantastic mechanical consistency. Question is why he wasn't really followed, let alone fell through the draft. Watching him play, he's kind of a candy ***. I wouldn't call him especially competitive and the Heat will have to teach him what their expectations are defensively and from a hustle standpoint. Also he's almost exclusively a three point shooter inasmuch as his mentality goes. About 72% of his shots were three point attempts. There's kind of a "ball stops here" aspect to his play in terms of offensive ball movement. It's like the three point equivalent of Hassan Whiteside.

    Justin Robinson, Monmouth - You've got to be pretty special to even get a team talking to you if you're 5'8". So if you want to know why the man goes undrafted you need look no further than that. Is he special? Two time MAAC Payer of the Year. Lou Henson Mid-Major Player of the Year. Pretty incredible for a 5'8" guy with a 5'9.5" wing span. Shot 7 three pointers a game and made over 40% of them. He's an 86% free throw shooter which makes a lot of sense because you watch enough of him and that's what you see, that this dude can shoot from anywhere, at any angle, and it'll go in. His turnovers aren't high, which is something I'd watch on a little guy. This is going to be a fun summer league guy. The Jakeem Grant of summer leagues.

    Zach Auguste, USAK -
    When I watch this 6'10" and 240 lbs guy play the things that come to mind are that he's legit fast for that kind of size, and also very agile on the inside for that size. Probably more agile than the guy we drafted Bam Adebayo, and technically the same size as per the listings. But he doesn't remind me of Bam. He actually reminds me of Harry Giles, which again is another reason I steer away from guys like Giles whose skill set I think I can get for cheaper. Auguste has that weirdly good agility on the inside like Giles. He's going to be one to watch because he's already a pro. He's been banging around with real men in Turkey. Of course at 24 years old, he's one of those real men. Not a guy that can play at all from the perimeter. Kind of uncomfortable unless he can get his back to a defender in the post. Not a strong shooter.

    Derek Willis, Kentucky - Tall (6'9") and lanky wing player, good three point shooter who can dunk. Didn't play much for Kentucky. Here's a video of what he can do. Seems like a 3 and D type that the team will hope can be deadly on the three ball and develop into a "little things" guy.

    London Perrantes, Virginia - A 6'2" point guard. Very typical street ball type. Fast, quick twitch, very coordinated, finishes creatively to make up for his lack of size. He's a good shooter though at career 41% behind the three point line with an 81% free throw shot. Could be a fun summer league player. The Heat struck gold on a player like this in Tyler Johnson. But Perrantes isn't near the finisher that Johnson was because of TJ's unbelievable ups (no step vertical 28.5" for Perrantes, was 32" for TJ). I guess the question is whether Perrantes can be a three ball specialist. He's not a steal magnet like Briante Weber.

    Zak Irvin, Michigan - A 6'6" guard, pretty good passer but not a whole lot here that I'd get excited about. He's third in school history for three pointers. Supposedly a good defender.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  35. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Like I said last night, the way Riley talked he sounded like a guy who knows he's stuck with the team from last year and maybe Rudy Gay. That team could still be fun to watch.
     
  36. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think after his whole "whale hunting" comments from last year he's just trying to be more subtle about it.

    And he's right. The Great Ones (KD & Steph) are going back. CP3 is the only other great one. Hayward and Griffin are a step below those guys
     
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  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Here's the down and dirty on Bam Adebayo athletically, and I admit I did not know this until a few minutes ago.

    He's 6'10" in shoes (a quarter-inch shy, depending on which measurement you go off). He was 243 lbs at the Combine but he was 258 lbs at his 2016 official school measurement (wow). I believe he was 5% body fat at the Combine. He did a 33.5" no-step vertical at the Combine and at his official school measurement (that's higher than Tyler Johnson bee-tee-dubs). He did a 38.5" max vertical at the Combine and a 39.5" max vertical at his official school measurement (at 258 lbs!). He has a standing reach of 9'0" and a 7'3" wing span.

    Holy Pat Riley.

    That is a mother ****ing SPECIMEN. Dissect him and learn more about human condition. Clone him and take over other planetary bodies.

    What does Pat Riley mean by him being FOR REAL above the rim? He means the kid is 6'10" with a 39.5" max vertical which quite literally puts his head above the rim by 1.5 inches.
     
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  38. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    There you go getting me erect in public.

    This is going to be a willie reed upgrade, not just a replacement.
     
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  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Willie Reed was pretty good and played a pretty key role.

    I'm not sure why everyone is so resistant to the idea of a rookie coming on and playing 15 minutes a game like Reed did, scoring some points, blocking some shots, averaging 13.1 points and 11.6 rebounds and 1.6 blocks (plus 0.9 assists and 0.6 steals) per 36 minutes, to go with a 17.1 PER.

    Maybe I'm mistaken but when the NBA is taking a bunch of 18 and 19 year old's in the 1st round of the draft, they are generally pretty happy if that's what they can get out of a guy in his first year, no?

    I don't remember people being terribly UN-happy with Justise Winslow's rookie contribution of 8.1 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 1.1 steals, and 0.4 blocks per 36 minutes, which amounted to an 8.2 PER.
     
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  40. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Blake Griffin has opted out according to Woj.
     
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