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****The Official 2016-2017 NBA Thread****

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Section126, Jul 1, 2016.

  1. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Was that on the TV segment on Fox tonight? I don't see anything on twitter.

    Utah being out is interesting, because I would have guessed they were the favorites. Hopefully Riley (and Spo) did enough to keep him from wanting to play for Stevens again.
     
  2. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You think so? They're going to be paying a guy that turns 33 during the season an awful lot of money, and probably won't be a playoff team when he's at his best. I guess you want to be competitive, but I feel like that could be tough to swallow in 2018-2019, and brutal in year 3.
     
  3. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This echoes what CK was saying:

     
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  4. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it was the local Fox segment.
     
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  5. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Spo and Riley are going to LA enroute to San Diego with Hayward's contract?
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If Miami does manage to sign Gordon Hayward that would be a hell of a feather in their cap, IMO.

    As I said, they don't have a clear angle as to why Hayward should pick THEM over Boston or Utah. Utah has all sorts of advantages as he's put down roots and developed relationships. Boston has his coach from Butler, and they're tight.

    Miami has to scrape together a sum-of-parts argument that blows all that away. If they do it, which I'm sure they can, then massive kudos to them.
     
  7. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    The NY Post may be right. After watching that 10 minute clip of Melo working out, it does look like he's preparing for the Dantoni offense. Well, he says he'd waive his no trade clause for Houston. I say let's do it. As long as Melo shuts the hell up and does what Dantoni tells him, we might can make this work.

    Ryan Anderson+scrubs for Melo.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Looks like the Rockets are putting together a CP3/Harden/Melo team. That's gonna be entertaining as hell when you get right down to it.
     
  9. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    The pick&roll game would be unguardable.
     
  10. eltos_lightfoot

    eltos_lightfoot Well-Known Member

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    If that comes to pass it would be hilarious! The lack of perimeter defense would be worth watching alone.
     
  11. eltos_lightfoot

    eltos_lightfoot Well-Known Member

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    As would their opponent's. ;)
     
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  12. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would rather buy Melo out then ever take back Ryan Anderson for 3 years at 20+ mil per season. Get out of here with that.
     
  13. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    You're acting like Ryan Anderson is a great defender that we'd be losing...lmao. Melo, literally, couldn't be a worse defender than Ryan Anderson if he tried. Melo would play the 4, not the 3.

    We had the 3rd best record in the NBA with Ryan Anderson as the slowest defender on the planet. I think we would be just fine with Melo.
     
  14. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Lol. I'm fine with that also. We can find someone to take Anderson to free up money.
     
  15. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Melo apparently is willing to waive his NTC for Cleveland or Houston. He's spoken to Harden in recent days. Apparently Melo giving his "him or me" ultimatum to the NYK front office regarding D'Antoni isn't going to stop the this. Just no Ryan Anderson unless there's a tremendous pick haul or we shed Noah in the deal. The only thing missing would be having Evan Turner and the Knicks would have the 3 worst deals in the league.

    Courtney Lee to Philly rumors perist....possibly involving Jahlil Okafor.
    Knicks are considering sign and trade with Milwaukee regarding Rose. Only speculation regarding what is coming back. As long a sits not Delly for 3+ years (Maybe Monroe expiring and a pick?)

    GM Steve Mills wants to go young....I support that. Just stay away from bad contracts longer then 2 years. Position short term flexibility for future picks
     
  16. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, you can't. You had to offer two first round picks at the deadline just to get teams to talk about Anderson and still no one wanted him.
     
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  17. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Melo is a better defender then Anderson...when he's engaged. When he's not engaged, he will go up for a shot on the offensive end and you'll be watching the guy he should be guarding on defense, dunk. I would want Houston to win if Melo went there, especially since the Knicks will not be good, just be prepared for the potential downside.
     
  18. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They have a lot of assets in Denver. That contract will be moveable. You flip Faried and Mudiay (who I told everyone would be a flop) and it should land you something decent. They have Jokic and Milsap upfront and Gary Harris is a good two way SG...that team needs a SF
     
  19. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Rockets don't care about picks...never have since Morey has been here. That's why we haven't had a losing season in 10 years.

    And I guarantee you Sacramento, Ryan's hometown, will take him.
     
  20. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    He will be engaged...he'd be winning and scoring A LOT.
     
  21. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol, and 0 rings to show for it. Picks are very important...your taking on the 2000-2009 Knicks philosophy. Trust me, it doesn't work.
     
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  22. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Scoring and winning yes....defensively engaged, we will see. Maybe now that he won't have to be the man on offense for the first time in his career he will be more consistent. We'll see. I've followed Melo since he was at Cuse...he's always been the same way and I don't think MDA is a strong enough coach to get him to commit fully on D. So that's why I have reservations.
     
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  23. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Draft picks are important if you're a lottery team. We never suck that bad. We don't believe in tanking. Middle round picks are only good for trading. That's how we were able to get Harden and CP3. If we have to flip more late round picks to get another star, than so be it.
     
  24. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You still need cheap depth to fill out your bench. Building from the middle up without tanking a year is basically something only the Mavs were able to do in recent history.
     
  25. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Dantoni doesn't coach our defense. We hired him a defensive coordinator. They we're a package deal. When Dantoni won his COY award, he was one of the main people he thanked. Coach Bzelick (sp?) will get Melo to buy in just like Harden, Anderson, and Gordon.
     
  26. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    We have cheap depth. We kill it in the 2nd round. Isaiah Cannon, Chandler Parsons, Montrezl Harrell, Onuaku, Zhou Qui, etc. We've got great scouts. We also have a top 2 D League team that we farm from.
     
  27. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Chauncey Billups has turned down the Cleveland gig.
     
  28. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't see Miami as some longshot in the Hayward pursuit. I think that in general most people make decisions about where to work based on three things. Money, what's the best place to work (the company and the community) and opportunity to advance in their field. I don't see that as Miami is having to manufacture some imaginary advantage. This is what most potential employees focus on and I think Miami is pretty attractive in those areas.


    Money is about even. Utah can pay a bit more and you have more security with an extra year (which has value if your career ends early or you're at the end of your career), but with tax advantages in Miami and greater exposure (marketing opportunities) and Hayward's age that advantage seems small. Boston has an unfavorable tax environment. I'd rank it Utah, Miami, Boston, but the gap between Utah and Miami is not large.

    Where somebody prefers to live is individual but generally Miami is a pretty great place to be young and rich. People talk about the Heat culture, but that makes it sounds amorphous and nebulous. The impression I get as an outsider is that the Heat have created one of the best work environments in the league. We hear multiple stories about how welcoming the locker room is. Having all those players there during the sales pitch seems fairly unique. You always hear about player recruiters but it seemed like half the team was there. We also hear about how Spoelstra connects with and take individual interest in every player. Every team tries to say they're a family but from what players seem to say around the league, Miami does it better than most. Utah has the connections that have been formed and Boston has the college coach connection. I'd rank it Miami, Utah, Boston. But this is the most difficult one to assess because it's the most individual.

    Career advancement: Miami is run by the legendary Pat Riley. He's the only one that can say "I know how to build a championship team" and back it up with several pieces of evidence. I would imagine that anybody who loves basketball would be enticed by the opportunity to work with one of the league's all-time greats. Spoelstra's greatest strength, IMO, is his ability to improve player's games on an individual basis. I don't see it as some huge coincidence that players come to Miami and increase their efficiency. That's Hayward's game. He's known as one of the most efficient players at his position in the league. Reportedly he's hoop head who works on that specifically. I'd have to think that he and Spoelstra should connect in that regard immediately. And if I had to trust one coach/team to move my game to the next level or just improve my game it would be Spoelstra and the Heat. My guess is that he's considering leaving Utah because he doesn't believe have can go any further or grow anymore there. And while Stevens has the connection as his college coach I think you reach the point with any coach where you ask, "what more can he teach me?" You also see so many players moving up to management after their careers are over. That not only speaks to the concept of family, but it would also be appealing to any basketball junkie. I'd rank it Miami, Boston, Utah and I don't see it as close.

    I see Utah as third in this race. I don't see the money advantage as a large one. Once you get to those max contracts there's a point where each extra dollar provides diminishing returns. And in real dollars Miami's tax environment and opportunities may negate that advantage entirely. Utah being in the West hurts the team's chances to compete and hurts his odds of making all-star teams. And my gut says that he probably realizes that he's gone about as far as you can go in basketball terms with Utah. At one point Boston had the advantage of being able to say that they could put the best team around Hayward when they were the favorite to land PG, but that ship has sailed. Now I see the East as having several fairly even teams behind Cleveland. None of which can claim any greater chance to supplant Cleveland as the East Champion. I hear Boston did a heavy film session in their pitch, which I think was smart. I would guess that for a basketball junkie understanding the plan for how he will be used in a huge key. I think it will come down to who Hayward trusts more to help build his game and the team around him. Personally, I would think that the legend who has built several championship teams and the coach who has a track record for elevating so many player's games would easily trump the college coach who has no where near that level of success at the pro level. The wild card will be what the wife wants and where they want their family to live. She's been all over the place so that part is impossible to predict.
     
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  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Some stats through two SL games...(per 36 minutes)...

    PF/C Bam Adebayo - 16.4 points, 11.1 rebounds (5.8 off, 5.3 def), 1.8 assists, 1.8 steals, 2.9 blocks
    PF/C Eric Mika - 16.6 points, 11.1 rebounds (5.5 off, 5.5 def), 5.5 assists, 0.0 steals, 0.0 blocks
    PF/SF Okaro White - 18.7 points, 7.5 rebounds (2.1 off, 5.4 def), 0.5 assists, 0.5 steals, 2.1 blocks
    SG Gian Clavell - 15.8 points, 7.0 rebounds (0.6 off, 6.3 def), 1.3 assists, 1.3 steals, 1.3 blocks
    PG London Perrantes - 13.1 points, 3.0 rebounds (0.0 off, 3.0 def), 7.7 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.0 blocks

    The rest aren't worth talking about.

    Gian Clavell is 6 of 14 from the three point line and has particularly shown an effective catch-and-shoot. He works hard on both sides and you can see it in the rebounding as a two guard.

    One thing I notice about London Perrantes in summer league, that man knows how to be a point guard and assist scorers. It's not working out because the team overall sucks and I'm not saying Perrantes is an NBA player, but his instincts for getting defenders to commit to him, creating a lane and space to get the ball to a guy cutting to the basket, pretty good. Perrantes is averaging about 8 assists per 36 minutes thus far...on a team that is shooting like crap (31%).

    I said before Mika only had 13 minutes but he was compelling in those 13 minutes. Really worked hard under the basket, put himself in position, drew fouls. His assist game was working well that day, too. His shot wasn't even falling the way it usually does otherwise his points per 36 would have been even higher.

    I think despite Bam's rawness we're starting to get a picture as far as his total package of potential. He's dominant on the offensive boards and put-backs. He's becoming a blocks collector like Whiteside. He's stealing the ball, surprisingly. He had a steal in transition yesterday that was highlight reel awesome, and actually finished it by finding his open perimeter shooter and collecting the assist. The mid-range shot is still a work in progress, but good structure. He can explode on the inside when working the post, too.

    This is that Bam Adebayo steal. Impressive.

    http://www.nba.com/video/2017/07/02/20170702-steal-night/
     
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  30. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The money actually comes out ahead for Miami in the end. It's true that Utah can offer him that extra year, but he almost certainly will only take a 3 year deal, because after 3 more seasons he'd be a 10 year vet allowing him the next tier of the Max. In those 3 years Utah can offer a few million $ more than Miami, but like you said, state taxes make it close. But if Hayward signs another 5 year deal in 3 years (which you would expect), it would be the same 5 year deal Utah could offer him at that time, and the taxes would put Miami ahead significantly.

    Also, you mention Boston's heavy film session. Supposedly Spo did the same with him explaining to him how he will be featured in their offense. This is also something Miami can offer that Boston can't. There is no Isaiah Thomas in Miami. He will be the unequivocal #1 option on offense.
     
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  31. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for explaining the contract side. I didn't know about the 10 year tier.

    Spo and Miami always do that. It's one of the reasons I believe Miami has been successful at drawing FAs. I think Boston took a page out of Miami's book there.

    I think the Isaiah Thomas thing cuts both ways. I don't know whether being the #1 option is a big deal or not for Hayward. If we had been recruiting Griffin then I think that would have been big. But I don't know with Hayward. Everybody has some ego so it has to be attractive on some level, but he may be more focused on his efficiency. Boston could argue that his best fit would be with a ball heavy G.
     
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  32. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    True. That could be the case. As the first option in Miami, though, it could help him on the personal accolades end, and that could impact his marketing potential. He's probably an all-star in either spot, but as the #1 option in Miami in a weak Eastern Conference, he's almost a lock if he stays healthy. He'd probably even have a good shot at starting.
     
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  33. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    If im the cavs i would re-sign griffin... they look like a team without direction.. griffin gave them direction, cavs havent made any adjustments to improve from getting beatdown 4-1 by the warriors. They gave an extension to korver who was useless... and couldnt pull the trigger on any trades because they have no one with experience to control that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  34. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Boy, things are a mess in Cleveland right now, huh? Billups turns down the Cavs, supposedly wanting more money, he never talked to LeBron or his people, and supposedly LeBron is not actively recruiting free agents. He sure seems like he could be looking to move on after this year. If so, it's interesting how he starts thinking about these things a year in advance. From a marketing POV that's wise, I guess, but from a basketball POV it's pretty ****ty to the team paying him.
     
  35. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Lakers sign George Hill to a one year deal after meeting with Waiters last night.
     
  36. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  37. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Also, there are reports that Hayward might decide by tonight.
     
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  38. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Bam has really flashed a lot in these SL games. The tools are pretty insane. You can see how rare an athlete he is in how quckly he gets off the ground, mainly. And damn his first step is really effing good. That shocked me quite a bit, it's pretty eye-popping for his size He's blown by guys with ease. Now, I don't expect that type of offensive tool to be a huge deal in his actual ability to score within the real HEAT scheme, but it just speaks to his physical ability. Fluid getting into the little jumper too.

    In terms of NBA-ready skills I think you can bank on the OREBs translating early. He's got great feel and bounce/agility there to be a big plus. He's flashed himts rim protection and some switch-ability, but he's super inconsistent and needs work. Camp and preseason will be big to see if he can learn some solid technique and habits there. Pretty unaware/late to read these typical NBA actions.
     
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  39. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    George Hill has NOT signed with The Lakers yet, to be clear.

    Also, sidenote: but shouldn't there be a NEW thread for the NEW season?

    Section is a slacker.
     
  40. eltos_lightfoot

    eltos_lightfoot Well-Known Member

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    Don't let Melo hear you say he literally couldn't be worse on defense. He might just accept that challenge. Defense doesn't get easier in the NBA as you get older. Look at DWade. One of the best 2 guard defenders in the history of the NBA. With the Bulls? He was so bad I don't want him on the bench of the Heat in a buyout. Don't teach these kids anything, DWade.
     

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