The Official Miami Heat Return to the Playoffs Thread.

FinNasty · Jul 23, 2009

FinSane said:

I like Cook, but streak shooters are a dime-a-dozen. Id give James Jones a slight edge because his defense is sooo much better than Cooks. Section, seriously, Cook is not very good on defense. Once in a while he'll come up with a steal, sure, but not very often. Cook at this stage is a one-dimensional spot up shooter who has a tendency to have long droughts after short spans of offense. Sure, he MIGHT develop later on in his career to be much more of a solid role player. But those are, as I said, a dime-a-dozen. We can find a spotty shooter or probably get one in return from Utah included in the Boozer deal. CJ Miles perhaps. But to sum it up, Cook is expendable. If all we're trading is a good but not great rebounder/post-defender(Haslem), an ever developing prospect(Wright), and a one-dimensional spot-up shooter(Cook) for an all-star PF in Boozer and maybe get backup perimeter player in return, Id do it. And not think twice.
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Amen...

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

#1 fan said:

cook is garbage. i can think of at least 30 other shooting guards i'd rather have on the team.
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sigh....

now he is "garbage".

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

BTW..interesting that today is the artificial "deadline" Riley talked to Odom about ...and the word now is that the lakers have opened negotiations with Odom again.

They would need to insult him for Lamar Odom to sign here now. Because the only reason to open negotiations again is to add the 4th year...then we are gone.

I had it at 50/50 on Monday....it is about 30/70 now. Riley should put a deadline on it if he hasn't and pull the offer to work on the Boozer deal.

phunwin · Jul 23, 2009

First, thanks to 126 for the sweet inside info on Boozer and Odom.

Second, I am stunned that the Heat would seriously consider Daequan Cook a major holdup in a deal for Carlos Boozer. Stunned. It's one thing if they're the only serious offer on the table and they think they can hang onto Cook and are just playing poker. Fine, but in the big scheme of things, if the Jazz would take Haslem, Wright and Cook, you pull the trigger and don't look back. I don't watch Daequan Cook regularly; I'm a stat geek, and what I see is a guy who is pretty much worthless if his three isn't falling. His defense and rebounding aren't bad for a guard, but he can't/won't pass, doesn't go to the hole and can't create an easy shot for himself or others. There's a place for players like that; Eddie House has made a nice living for himself, for example, but ultimately, you don't submarine a deal for an all-star forward just because of that. He's still young, but he turns 23 in April and has two pretty full years under his belt. There's not THAT much more improvement that you can expect.

#1 fan · Jul 23, 2009

Section126 said:

sigh....

now he is "garbage".
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he's always been garbage. ok, he's made progress. in college, he came off the bench at osu. as a rookie he was in the d-league. this year, he was an undersized 2 who couldn't hit a shot after the all star break.

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

#1 fan said:

he's always been garbage. ok, he's made progress. in college, he came off the bench at osu. as a rookie he was in the d-league. this year, he was an undersized 2 who couldn't hit a shot after the all star break.
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Undersized 2 guard? what?

he is 6-5' 210 pounds.

After the all-star break he had a slump....but in what was essentially his rookie season, you are ready to call him "garbage"....he was THE REASON we won games at one point of time during the season....

I remember in THIS VERY THREAD all of us....not some of ous...but all of us lamenting that we needed Cook to snap out of his slump to win games.

I will just say that starting with your "undersized" comment...you demonstrated that you don't know what you are talking about concerning Daequan Cook.

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

But hey...don't take my word for it...

look at his Game Logs and see his impact in games. Check the Heats record in games where he beats his 9.1 ppg average. it is STRIKING.

he also happens to be a 22 year old that actually has a worthy reputation of being "clutch".

HardKoreXXX · Jul 23, 2009

#1 fan said:

he's always been garbage. ok, he's made progress. in college, he came off the bench at osu. as a rookie he was in the d-league. this year, he was an undersized 2 who couldn't hit a shot after the all star break.
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He was one of, if not the only real threat we had from behind the arc until James Jones found his stroke. I think he played some solid defense last year as well. When he's on, he's esentially Jason Kapono who actually plays D.

#1 fan · Jul 23, 2009

Section126 said:

Undersized 2 guard? what?

he is 6-5' 210 pounds.

After the all-star break he had a slump....but in what was essentially his rookie season, you are ready to call him "garbage"....he was THE REASON we won games at one point of time during the season....

I remember in THIS VERY THREAD all of us....not some of ous...but all of us lamenting that we needed Cook to snap out of his slump to win games.

I will just say that starting with your "undersized" comment...you demonstrated that you don't know what you are talking about concerning Daequan Cook.
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not this again. the last time you said somebody was the REASON we won a game it was j.o. i'll root for cook's garbage ***, because he plays for the heat, but the fact that "we needed cook to snap out of his slump to win us games" and he didn't = garbage.

the fact that he didn't for over two months = UNDEPENDABLE, as in non-deal breaker for landing boozer.

#1 fan · Jul 23, 2009

HardKoreXXX said:

He was one of, if not the only real threat we had from behind the arc until James Jones found his stroke. I think he played some solid defense last year as well. When he's on, he's esentially Jason Kapono who actually plays D.
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i agree "when he's on" he has value for this team. but if i can get boozer, i'm not keeping around a player who's only ability is to shoot threes, hoping tonight that he's "on".

seriously though . . . he's a marginal player at best. there are atleast 30 other shooting guards better than him. i don't see why he can't be replaced.

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

#1 fan said:

i agree "when he's on" he has value for this team. but if i can get boozer, i'm not keeping around a player who's only ability is to shoot threes, hoping tonight that he's "on".

seriously though . . . he's a marginal player at best. there are atleast 30 other shooting guards better than him. i don't see why he can't be replaced.
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If there are only 30 Shooting guards better than him...it would place him as the best off the bench shooting guard int eh league.

and When I SAY that SOMEBODY was the REASON we won a game...take it to the ****ing BANK...bet on it...take a picture....dance around it that he was the REASON we won a game.

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

and he is 22 years old coming off what was really his rookie season.....

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

BEEN POSTED....BUT 3 for 30...NO WAY he turns that down or the reported 4 for 36......

the Heat just cannot compete with those numbers. AND SHOULDN'T BTW.

He is NOT worth a 10 million a year contract at this stage. Especially when the market for a guy like Joe Johnson is going to start at 10 million a year next year.

Den54 · Jul 23, 2009

That's why you should'nt count the chickens before they hatch Section.

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

Den54 said:

That's why you should'nt count the chickens before they hatch Section.
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??????

and WHO was counting the chickens?

not me by a long shot. I am the guy advocating that we should not trade ANYBODY but expirings remember?

FinSane · Jul 23, 2009

Section126 said:

Undersized 2 guard? what?

he is 6-5' 210 pounds.

After the all-star break he had a slump....but in what was essentially his rookie season, you are ready to call him "garbage"....he was THE REASON we won games at one point of time during the season....

I remember in THIS VERY THREAD all of us....not some of ous...but all of us lamenting that we needed Cook to snap out of his slump to win games.

I will just say that starting with your "undersized" comment...you demonstrated that you don't know what you are talking about concerning Daequan Cook.
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all the more reason to trade the guy. he cannot be depended on in an instant offense role for one. I think Eddie House was a much better player at the same stage as Cook is in now when he was here. House could shoot from all areas on the court, AND he drove to the hoop. Along with having a knack for getting steals. I dont see that from Cook. Cook also hadnt shown a whole lot of heart or confidence during his slump. Something seriously happened in his game. Maybe he got lazy. Or had a fight with Wade. Whatever it was, Cook was exposed as a limited, streaky jumpshooter.

With that said, I like the kid and hope he gets better, but id do the trade in a heartbeat.

Ludacris · Jul 23, 2009

I guess the debate is then, do we give up Haslem, Wright and Cook (a 22yo up and coming #2) for an all-star 27yo power forward?

I have to side with giving up Cook as well because as much as we would like to keep him, getting Boozer would make the offense so much more formidable. A good low post guy on offense, Beasley playing small forward working around him and you have some bite down low. It will also free up Wade around the perimeter providing him with more space to work with.

Just my 2 cents

padre31 · Jul 23, 2009

FreeStyle said:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=NBA

OH BROTHER
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Who couldn't see that one coming...

I'd peddle Cook in .0003 seconds for a Boozer on the Heat, that would give Miami a nice window to compete in the East.

To me a team is better of going with the known over the unknown, "he's a future star" is nonsense in the NBA, late in the season Cowherd was saying Bynum was a top 3 center...riiight.

A part of me is beginning to believe Boozer ends up in Chicago and Miami ends up with a "we tried" note to the fans.

FinSane · Jul 23, 2009

padre31 said:

Who couldn't see that one coming...

I'd peddle Cook in .0003 seconds for a Boozer on the Heat, that would give Miami a nice window to compete in the East.

To me a team is better of going with the known over the unknown, "he's a future star" is nonsense in the NBA, late in the season Cowherd was saying Bynum was a top 3 center...riiight.

A part of me is beginning to believe Boozer ends up in Chicago and Miami ends up with a "we tried" note to the fans.
Click to expand...

I can see it now

2009-2010 Miami HEAT - "We Tried!"

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

padre31 said:

Who couldn't see that one coming...

I'd peddle Cook in .0003 seconds for a Boozer on the Heat, that would give Miami a nice window to compete in the East.

To me a team is better of going with the known over the unknown, "he's a future star" is nonsense in the NBA, late in the season Cowherd was saying Bynum was a top 3 center...riiight.

A part of me is beginning to believe Boozer ends up in Chicago and Miami ends up with a "we tried" note to the fans.
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Chicago cannot offer the savings the Heat can to Utah.

BTW...for all of you Wade to Chicago conspiracy theorists......

They need to rescind the option on Rose, dump tyrus Thomas and trade away around 12 million this year to free up about 20 million in cap space.

so instead of Wade taking a 30 million dollar paycut...it would now be around a 50 million dollar paycut to go to Chicago.

Just did the numbers a little while ago to work out the offer that Bulls fans are pushing on the boards for Boozer....

Bulls fans expect Utah to go into the luxury tax for around 5 million just to help Chicago get Boozer...of course...the reason Utah is trading Boozer is to AVOID the luxury tax.

The more I look at it...Miami is the perfect partner for Utah to fix their cap situation.

#1 fan · Jul 23, 2009

Section126 said:

If there are only 30 Shooting guards better than him...it would place him as the best off the bench shooting guard int eh league.

and When I SAY that SOMEBODY was the REASON we won a game...take it to the ****ing BANK...bet on it...take a picture....dance around it that he was the REASON we won a game.
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why? you've been wrong twice about this.

what do you define as "the REASON" a player wins a game? is it clutch ability? like cook's 5 points a game in the playoffs? or not showing up at all during the stretch run of the regular season.

is it minutes, points, or assists? or any stat? because i don't think cook led the team in a single stat, in a single game all season.

i mean really, d-wade last year, and d-wade alone is the REASON the heat won games. if 2010 comes, and wade's two other options for scoring help are goofy *** michael beasley, and skittle eating dequan cook, i don't fault him for leaving.

in fact, if i remember right, wade gives his 10% tithe to his church in chicago. i think he's rich enough, and cares more about respect and winning than his surplus cash.

FinNasty · Jul 23, 2009

Section126 said:

Chicago cannot offer the savings the Heat can to Utah.

BTW...for all of you Wade to Chicago conspiracy theorists......

They need to rescind the option on Rose, dump tyrus Thomas and trade away around 12 million this year to free up about 20 million in cap space.

so instead of Wade taking a 30 million dollar paycut...it would now be around a 50 million dollar paycut to go to Chicago.

Just did the numbers a little while ago to work out the offer that Bulls fans are pushing on the boards for Boozer....

Bulls fans expect Utah to go into the luxury tax for around 5 million just to help Chicago get Boozer...of course...the reason Utah is trading Boozer is to AVOID the luxury tax.

The more I look at it...Miami is the perfect partner for Utah to fix their cap situation.
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They would need to do that to sign Wade as of right now?

King Felix · Jul 23, 2009

Section126 said:

Chicago cannot offer the savings the Heat can to Utah.

BTW...for all of you Wade to Chicago conspiracy theorists......

They need to rescind the option on Rose, dump tyrus Thomas and trade away around 12 million this year to free up about 20 million in cap space.

so instead of Wade taking a 30 million dollar paycut...it would now be around a 50 million dollar paycut to go to Chicago.

Just did the numbers a little while ago to work out the offer that Bulls fans are pushing on the boards for Boozer....

Bulls fans expect Utah to go into the luxury tax for around 5 million just to help Chicago get Boozer...of course...the reason Utah is trading Boozer is to AVOID the luxury tax.

The more I look at it...Miami is the perfect partner for Utah to fix their cap situation.
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well considering they want to trade heinrich, who makes like 10 mill...i dont think it'd be that hard if they wanted to clear the space

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

King Felix said:

well considering they want to trade heinrich, who makes like 10 mill...i dont think it'd be that hard if they wanted to clear the space
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who the **** wants Heinrich's death contract?

they will have to eat at least half of it back in any deal.

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

FinNasty said:

They would need to do that to sign Wade as of right now?
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As of RIGHT now...yes.

if they get Boozer...forget about it. No chance at even a MAX 2 player.

although...Joe Johnson could go there for cheap...(make alot of sense) (Nice squad in Chicago if they pull that off)

Rose
Joe Johnson
Deng
Boozer
Noah

padre31 · Jul 23, 2009

Section126 said:

who the **** wants Heinrich's death contract?

they will have to eat at least half of it back in any deal.
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Portland.

but I doubt DWade leaves for Chicago until next season, a crappy season and he may have had enough.

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

#1 fan said:

why? you've been wrong twice about this.

what do you define as "the REASON" a player wins a game? is it clutch ability? like cook's 5 points a game in the playoffs? or not showing up at all during the stretch run of the regular season.

is it minutes, points, or assists? or any stat? because i don't think cook led the team in a single stat, in a single game all season.

i mean really, d-wade last year, and d-wade alone is the REASON the heat won games. if 2010 comes, and wade's two other options for scoring help are goofy *** michael beasley, and skittle eating dequan cook, i don't fault him for leaving.

in fact, if i remember right, wade gives his 10% tithe to his church in chicago. i think he's rich enough, and cares more about respect and winning than his surplus cash.
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I've been wrong "twice" about what?

you obviously don't even watch the games.

like I said...don;t take my word for it....look at the game logs and check our record in games where Cook beats his 9.1 ppg average...including an outburst in those playoffs....where you brought up his average. good for you...you know how to go to NBA.com...now check the game logs.

and the Wade tithing to his church in chicago...means what exactly?

so yeah...he will leave 50 million on the table. Are you going for annoyance now? because you are past the disagreement stage...you are approaching the worthless conversation stage.

You are wrong on Cook. simple as that.

Cook is a worthwhile player.

if you want to suggest that adding Cook isn't a deal breaker...fine..I can see it...maybe....but this "Cook sucks" crap is just toooo stupid and not worth anybody's time in this thread or any other.

Section126 · Jul 23, 2009

padre31 said:

Portland.

but I doubt DWade leaves for Chicago until next season, a crappy season and he may have had enough.
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well..he can;t leave until after next season....but...

he won;t leave for Chicago if Miami goes 0-82.

he won;t leave for chicago unless the NBA disbands the heat's franchise.

nobody is going to now dump FIFTY MILLION.

it is approaching the point where if a guy leaves 50 million on the table..then maybe you don;t really want him since he is obviously ******ed.

Wade is one of those guys.....that I would put waaaaaaaaaaay down the list of guys that "don;t care about money".

This guy wears 50k earings and has a driver and bodyguard to take him everywhere. he also has a judgement on the way for about 20 million for his divorce.

as weird as it is to say it...he needs a MAX contract.

Finsanity · Jul 23, 2009

Suicide lines: Jazz won't be bullied into trading Boozer; Heat bigs

By J.E. Skeets

Each weekday morning, Ball Don't Lie serves up a handful of NBA-related stories to digest with your peanut butter and banana on toast.

David Aldridge, NBA.com: "Utah is not going to be goosed into doing a Carlos Boozer(notes) deal. All summer, we've been given breathless updates as to who is 'ahead' in the Boozer 'sweepstakes,' with the two-time All-Star making his preference for wearing Heat Black next season clear. Three-way trades, two-team trades, all kind of trades — to the Bulls, to the Heat, to the Knicks, with the emphasis on a supposedly imminent deal, the Jazz not possibly being able to welcome Boozer back into the fold next season. All wrong. There's a good chance Carlos Boozer is the starting power forward for Utah in November, with a slightly overpriced backup in Paul Milsap. Let me say this one more time: Utah is not going to be bullied, rushed or otherwise forced into trading Boozer anywhere. The Jazz is not going to do a deal for a deal's sake, and certainly isn't going to do a bad deal. That doesn't mean Utah isn't listening to offers (it is) or won't ultimately get a deal done for Boozer (though Miami will have to do better than combinations featuring Udonis Haslem(notes) and Dorell Wright(notes); if the first words out of Riles's mouth aren't 'Michael Beasley,'(notes) forget it)."
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...z-won-t-be-bullied-into-tradin?urn=nba,178221

BTW for all the talk about 2010 Free Agency the way these things usually play out is lack luster. Lebron, Dwade, Bosh and Amare will almost certainly stay with their team. No one is going to leave sure money on the table that will be dumb. Just look at the Lamar Odom situation. He was offered 10mil/year for 3years to come off the freaking bench and he turned it down. Nobody going to giving that and the lakers are going to reduce their initial offer because they'll be bidding against themselves. He will be lucky to get 7 mil/year now. He should of got the 3 year 30mil and ask for and extension after 2years of the contract. Stupid agent.

padre31 · Jul 23, 2009

Finsanity said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...z-won-t-be-bullied-into-tradin?urn=nba,178221

BTW for all the talk about 2010 Free Agency the way these things usually play out is lack luster. Lebron, Dwade, Bosh and Amare will almost certainly stay with their team.
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At the end of the day, that is what usually happens.

Alex44 · Jul 24, 2009

Finsanity said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...z-won-t-be-bullied-into-tradin?urn=nba,178221

BTW for all the talk about 2010 Free Agency the way these things usually play out is lack luster. Lebron, Dwade, Bosh and Amare will almost certainly stay with their team. No one is going to leave sure money on the table that will be dumb. Just look at the Lamar Odom situation. He was offered 10mil/year for 3years to come off the freaking bench and he turned it down. Nobody going to giving that and the lakers are going to reduce their initial offer because they'll be bidding against themselves. He will be lucky to get 7 mil/year now. He should of got the 3 year 30mil and ask for and extension after 2years of the contract. Stupid agent.
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No matter where those four guys go they should get the max. Odom isnt like them at all.

#1 fan · Jul 24, 2009

Section126 said:

I've been wrong "twice" about what?

you obviously don't even watch the games.

like I said...don;t take my word for it....look at the game logs and check our record in games where Cook beats his 9.1 ppg average...including an outburst in those playoffs....where you brought up his average. good for you...you know how to go to NBA.com...now check the game logs.

and the Wade tithing to his church in chicago...means what exactly?

so yeah...he will leave 50 million on the table. Are you going for annoyance now? because you are past the disagreement stage...you are approaching the worthless conversation stage.

You are wrong on Cook. simple as that.

Cook is a worthwhile player.

if you want to suggest that adding Cook isn't a deal breaker...fine..I can see it...maybe....but this "Cook sucks" crap is just toooo stupid and not worth anybody's time in this thread or any other.
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dude you on your period? chill out. we both watch the games. we both have access to nba.com. you're the one being annoying. it's obviously worth your time since you got so riled up.

FinSane · Jul 24, 2009

if cook winds up being traded and we get Boozer

126 will definitely jump ship and commend Pat Riley for making a BRILLIANT move and sending out the EXPENDABLE Cook along with Haslem/Wright then act like he called it all along.

Section's the King of Spin.

Section126 · Jul 24, 2009

FinSane said:

if cook winds up being traded and we get Boozer

126 will definitely jump ship and commend Pat Riley for making a BRILLIANT move and sending out the EXPENDABLE Cook along with Haslem/Wright then act like he called it all along.

Section's the King of Spin.

Click to expand...

wrong.

I have said it twice in this thread. he would have got rolled.

and David Aldridge is on crack as well....."beasley"? get ****ing real.

it must be a nice world where people trade 2nd opverall picks that will average 20 ppg for one year rentals.

Section126 · Jul 24, 2009

#1 fan said:

dude you on your period? chill out. we both watch the games. we both have access to nba.com. you're the one being annoying. it's obviously worth your time since you got so riled up.
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I think it is obvious that you jumped out on the rag.

but it doesn;t matter. the point is that Cook is not "garbage".

Section126 · Jul 24, 2009

BTW..today is SOURCE Friday.....

but as we can all surely tell on Odom...the Miami heat is just insurance for Odom just in case the Lakers ask him to go **** himself.

My guess is that the 4th year gets added or the Lakers come close to the 30 for 3 offer they made..and Odom resigns.

although ...the waiting has changed....before..every day that would go by meant he got farther away from the Heat....

Now..everyday that happens ...he comes closer.

ODOM watch meter is at...................25% (down from 30%)

Frumundah Finnatic · Jul 24, 2009

thanks for the odom update Section

Section126 · Jul 24, 2009

will see my source around 5:30 to 6:30pm...

will post what I learn afterwards or much later....it is friday afterall.

Section126 · Jul 24, 2009

very briefly...gotta go....

On Odom: things not good. The "feel" around the offices is that He is pulling a MO Williams....in fact...they actually joke about it now.

if the Lakers come up with anywhere near 24 for 3 (the NUMBER RILEY THINKS the Lakers are willing to pay)..The lakers will retain him. it is now a longshot to the point where RILEY would be surprised if He signed. He has no idea why the Lakers reopened the negotiations after pulling 3 offers. it is just weird. Riley has not spoken to Lamar Odom this week.. supposedly...Odom is negotiating ALL THIS TIME with the lakers...more like..BEGGING them to give back any of the offers he turned down.

On Boozer: No movement...no discussions since Tuesday. Last they left talks...the question was a NEW third team and a new player was to be included.

The interested teams as per the Utah Jazz (probably lying..but who knows): Wizards, Bulls, Rockets. Pistons were not mentioned (I know ESPN mentioned them)

talks are basically non-existant. if you had to have a front runner..it is still the heat..but Utah is not happy about it. This has the potential to drag out because the Heat is not budging..and Utah is determined to get back at least one keeper.

the heat offer is still Haslem, Wright and an exception with a third team. My guy says that the mood sucks around the office right now. he used that exact term. Have no idea what that means.

Oh and I have the preliminary number for the MAX contract for Wade next season. 125 million for 6 years.

padre31 · Jul 24, 2009

Section126 said:

very briefly...gotta go....

On Odom: things not good. The "feel" around the offices is that He is pulling a MO Williams....in fact...they actually joke about it now.

if the Lakers come up with anywhere near 24 for 3 (the NUMBER RILEY THINKS the Lakers are willing to pay)..The lakers will retain him. it is now a longshot to the point where RILEY would be surprised if He signed. He has no idea why the Lakers reopened the negotiations after pulling 3 offers. it is just weird. Riley has not spoken to Lamar Odom this week.. supposedly...Odom is negotiating ALL THIS TIME with the lakers...more like..BEGGING them to give back any of the offers he turned down.

On Boozer: No movement...no discussions since Tuesday. Last they left talks...the question was a NEW third team and a new player was to be included.

The interested teams as per the Utah Jazz (probably lying..but who knows): Wizards, Bulls, Rockets. Pistons were not mentioned (I know ESPN mentioned them)

talks are basically non-existant. if you had to have a front runner..it is still the heat..but Utah is not happy about it. This has the potential to drag out because the Heat is not budging..and Utah is determined to get back at least one keeper.

the heat offer is still Haslem, Wright and an exception with a third team. My guy says that the mood sucks around the office right now. he used that exact term. Have no idea what that means.

Oh and I have the preliminary number for the MAX contract for Wade next season. 125 million for 6 years.
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