The only way I would sign Peyton Manning is if he is willing to fall in line with the following things:
1. He has to go through multiple, intense workouts so I can see what kind endurance his arm has and how it will respond to highly fatigable situations.
2. No bringing along his former teammates for the ride. Reggie Wayne and Jeff Saturday do nothing to help this team now or in the future. If anything, they are progress stoppers for younger players the Dolphins have at their positions.
3. He has to conform to Joe Philbin's offense. Joe Philbin was hired because of the system he runs, so it makes little sense to bring in a quarterback if that quarterback is not willing to play within that system.
4. He has to realize that he is a short term guy, and that Miami may want to go ahead and draft his replacement this year. If Peyton isn't on board with Miami taking someone like Ryan Tannehill in the first round, then do not sign him.
He has to be willing to do all of this, or the signing simply isn't worth it. Particularly since I feel Peyton is going to be just a shell of his former self.
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Only questionable points are #1 and #4.......to a degree. #2 and #3 are no brainers.
1. He is going to be evaluated by medical doctors thoroughly. For you to say highly intense fatigue situations, well it doesnt work that way when a guy is coming back from surgery. You work him out, check out his medical, and meet with doctors to see if he will be able to handle those intense workouts in the future. Demanding him do that in a workout may be too much to ask of him on March 20 until you speak with doctors. Perhaps he can't do that on March 20 but all indications say he will be fine in June....you still sign him and feel good about it.
4. Peyton doesn't have to conform to anybody nor should he. What should be expected is to work closely with Philbin together and get the best out of each other and the team. That is what should be expected and that is what he will do no problem.Mile High Fin and mbsinmisc like this. -
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#3 is intriguing to me. You're asking a future HOF-er to change what he's done his whole career. Not saying it's wrong, just saying it's intriguing to see how that would play out.
Clearly Philbin has a system he wants to use. Clearly Peyton has a system he's used. Both have been successful. -
Please. How do you think the conversation goes?
1st time coach: "So Peyton lets lay down some rules, starting with a tryout"
Sure HOF QB: "Sure coach. I expect to have to jump through hoops. I have not established my rep yet so...."
Doubt it!
70% Payton is far better than 100% of anyone named Matt!!gafinfan likes this. -
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shula_guy Well-Known Member
Shouldn't a good coach be able to design schemes around the talent he has. Say Peyton recovers enough to play at a high level shouldn't we expect both him and Philbin to compromise and find ways to be successful together on Sundays. I would expect Peyton would have to learn some new things and I would expect Philbin to add plays into his playbook that Peyton is good at executing. Sometimes I think people over think this stuff.
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I cant see why people are so enamored with Tanny. His numbers arent that great, not even a 2-1 td-int ratio. He doesnt have tons of exp. The film i have seen make him look good not great. Certainly not worthy of a #8 IMHO
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I'll let Wes Bunting explain it to you. It start's at 3:30.
http://www.790theticket.com/jorgesedano.aspx -
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This all honestly depends on why Philbin thinks of Flynn. I really can't wait until free agency. If Philbin thinks Flynn is a legitimate franchise or elite QB, I'm happy with going for him. The only thing is if we pursue, other teams may try to outbid. I think Philbin being here might outdo the money but I'm fairly certain Ross would give Flynn a good deal.
I think any Manning talk is moot until we know Philbin's thoughts on Flynn.305, MAFishFan and texanphinatic like this. -
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Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member
KB, I agree with you about what we likely will see from Manning going forward, I've put that out there in multiple posts...but I don't totally agree with your list here...
1a) ASSUMING HE'S RELATIVELY HEALTHY: He may go thru the workouts as you mentioned, but if he puts it out there and is prepared (video of his workouts, medical reports, etc) I think someone will jump on him at 4:01pm on March 8th (or whenever his release is official). I would think that there would be a team or two and not just the obvious teams that are already reportedly interested in him ready to ink a contract based on his word and any preparation he may have made in advance of the release... It sounds like a Tannebaum move to me...or even Carroll in Seattle or maybe even JJ in Dallas... Maybe an off the wall team like Jax (with a new owner who has some money to spend)....just a thought, but I think before all this is over with there will be a surprise team that enters the fray...
1b) ASSUMING HE'S NOT QUITE READY OR STILL NEEDS MORE REHAB TIME OR THERE IS A QUESTION ABOUT HIS HEALTH ALTOGETHER: There still will be a line of second tier teams that might not have figured they'd even have a chance for him (Arizona, Jests, etc) that will be lining up to pre-sign him, however that works out. Otherwise, how long can/will the Miami's, Seattles, Wash's and Cleveland's wait to make a decision ?? That's the real dilemma they are faced with. On the flip side, could a team like Cleveland jump in there an offer the Dolts their late round 1st rounder with a wink-nod agreement with Manning to renegotiate that contract ??
2) As to bringing in former team mates, that's a bit ambiguous...I don't see that as a deal breaker for either side of the negotiations... Anyone he may want to bring with him is going to be what we have or slightly less and older that what we have, so I don't see that as a deal breaker...
3) While I agree that forcing Philbin to completely adjust his offense to fit what Manning wants to do is not only unfair to him, but could be disastrous in results. If I were Philbin and I have what appears to be a healthy Manning, I'd want to work the O into something that both of us could live with. Why take away some of the things that he's especially astute at as a QB ?? Work with the guy and make the O work even better...The negative to that is IF for whatever reason he can't be in the lineup from August on, (re-injure, set back, whatever) then Philbin has to re-adjust the O to MMoore or whoever is the next guy in line...
4) My guess would be that the only guys he'd worry about us drafting along with picking him up would be either Luck or RG3. Any of the other guys in this draft are not ready to be in his shoes. MMoore will be the back up if he should go down or not play well or whatever. Tannehill, Weeden, Osweiller, etc...none of those guys would worry Manning, even a less than 2009 Manning... -
While I agree with some of what you say, considering the need the Dolphins have at the QB position, and the quality of player Peyton Manning is when healthy, I'd analogize your list of demands to a guy like this -
telling a girl like this -
That he would only date her if she was willing to cook and do laundry.Dolphins1Beatles, Boik14, DOLPHAN1 and 1 other person like this. -
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But, the Packers offense did shoot up the rankings from 2007 to 2011 (Top 10 each year) when he got promoted to OC. I get the feeling that McCarthy fell into a good position. Honestly I believe that unless you're Wade Phillips bad, you can win once you have talent. -
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I agree with the OP for the most part, if Manning looks fully healed and ready to go I think you have to gamble and bend your offense to fit him. He is just too good not too.
I hate to take a leap of faith with our new coaches, but if Philbin is sold on Flynn and Sherman has enough faith in Tannehill having enough promise I hope they go ahead and get both. I know the team has other needs but need to get that great quarterback somehow. It is a gamble. If they both tank the team is set back. If Flynn is really good keep him and trade Tannehill. If Tannehill develops keep him and trade Flynn.
I realize the 8th pick is probably high for Tannehill. I think he will still go high and if Sherman thinks he is a good prospect they should grab him. Address other needs in FA and the draft. This team needs to find the right quarterback lets find one. -
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Make Manning run Philbin system instead of Manning system?
Exactly how many times has making a wildly successfully veteran QB learn a new system work out?
Let's see;
Brett Farve with the Yets...nope didn't work out
Troy Aiken going from Norv Turners system to Chan Gailey system...nope didn't work out.
Anybody? -
And getting back to the OP, I agree for the most part. The new coaches should implement the system they think will work and should select the best qb for it. Peyton Manning in good health even with his age is hard to pass up though. Peyton Manning is a system. -
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Brett Favre - Minnesota
Matt Hasselbeck - Tennessee until injury
Drew Bledsoe - Buffalo
Joe Montana - Kansas City
Rich Gannon - Oakland
Kyle Orton - Denver
Vinny Testaverde - Jets
Chad Pennington - MIAMI
Doug Flutie - Buffalo
Randall Cunningham - Minnesota
Warren Moon - Houston -
Pretty funny that people have convinced themselves that Peyton is a system QB who can't adjust to anything and can't learn. Pretty comical considering the 2 things he does better than anyone is make adjustments and the mental aspect of the game.
Going to be funny to watch people eat there words this year. The backpedaling that will be going on will be so impressive Deion is going to be jealous.Springveldt, mullingan and Boik14 like this. -
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How many of your guys had to learn a completely new system?
Hint: it wasn't Brett Farve -
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1) If Manning passes your first stipulation, which would be to pass the rigorous physical examination; then that would mean he's completely healthy. That alone, IMO, nullifies the rest of the list.
2) How would Reggie Wayne opposite Marshall with Bess in the slot not make this team better? How would a combo of Marshall, Hartline, Bess be better than Marshall, Wayne, Bess. Wayne is not only better than Hartline but much more familiar with Manning which goes a long way. The timing will be there instantly.
As for Saturday: Again, with all of our OL pass protection problems, how would Jeff Saturday, Manning's offensive line leader, not make this team better? Especially at what could be close to vet minimum. Pouncey would be a fantastic G IMO.
3) A healthy Peyton Manning running Peyton Manning's system is better than a healthy Peyton Manning foregoing everything he wants to do to run Philbin's system. Like another poster said: Him and Philbin would most likely sit together and do what's best for the team to win games. I don't foresee any sort of power struggle there.
4) I completely agree with this here. And bringing on Wayne and Saturday or just one of those may afford us that luxury of drafting Tannenhill, although Ireland may not find him at #8 the best value. Picking up Manning, Wayne, Saturday, trading down and picking up more picks to draft Tannenhill is my dream scenario.
Again, #1 has to happen first in order to activate my #2,3,4.gafinfan likes this. -
Agree with Eop but want to add 1 caveat....Peyton makes his line. I wouldnt waste money on Saturday. trust me, just adding Peyton will improve your entire line as he is completely dissecting the defense and telling each lineman who to block.
Peyton makes his line, not vice versa. They still need to execute, but Peyton makes it easy when he takes alot of thinking out of the game for the lineman so all they have to do is play. -
What he does best is beat the blitz. But telling his lineman who to block is not quite how it works. He will call a protection and so will his Center but he is best at changing a play to his recievers to beat the blitz.ToddsPhins likes this. -
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Straight from NFL players mouths...
http://m.aol.com/news/default/getCo...-how-nfl-players-memorize-dizzying-playbooks/
Learning new terminology is the kicker, but not an insurmountable challenge
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Ozzy likes this.
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as much as i love reggie wayne, it's his last big contract, he's going where the money is, not where peyton goes
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got a feeling this is much to do about nothing & he will end up in Miami. in a week, we'll have a clearer picture. the latest projection is for him to be ready to play by May 2012. if he is, he is the answer.
Manning/Tannehill in 2012:dolphin: -
Brian Billick wrote an article for Fox Sports in which he names the Chiefs, Seahawks, and Jets, as the best and most likely spots Manning will end up if he is released by the Colts. He points out that he doesn't think Manning would be a good option for the Dolphins or the Redskins because Manning would not fit into the offensive schemes the head coaches of these two teams prefer to run.
I totally agree with Billick and while I would love to see a healthy Manning as the Dolphins QB, I just don't think Philbin really wants Manning with the Dolphins. Of course Ross may overrule both Philbin and Ireland and offer Manning a contract he will have a difficult time turning down. Fortunately for Manning, I think winning another Super Bowl is more important to him than a huge contract from the Dolphins and when he examines all his options and where he thinks he will have the best opportunity to win another Super Bowl in the next three years, he will decide to turn down the Dolphins and opt to go with the Jets or Seahawks.KB21 likes this. -
It is funny how the date Peyton will be ready to play keeps getting pushed back. Let's see, he has surgery in March of 2011. It doesn't work. He has another surgery sometime between then and September, and he was supposed to be ready to play by training camp. Well, that didn't work either. Then he has surgery in September and the reports were that he would be ready by December. Well, he wasn't ready by December. Now, he will be ready by May of 2012? So, how far does that get pushed back after he has his fifth surgery to remove the bone spurs that have already formed at the vertebral level above his fusion? August? September? December?
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1. Your intense workouts in March don't tell me or the Dolphins diddly squat about his possible proformance in September! Do I want to see him workout for the Dolphins, hell yeah, and several times between signing him and draft day to judge his level of play and his progress. Do I want to have him prove he is Superman now to the detriment of his play come December, Hell NO! His contract can and should reflect all of this and THAT should be the red flag you are asking for not an attack on his style of play.
2. As pointed out by others Reggie Wayne is not only an upgrade for this team, abet short term as is Peyton BTW which I'm sure that both are well aware of, as for Saturday I don't see him as a carrot or a stick for this to happen.
3. With respect you're making this about a power play, on both sides, while I would bet both parties want the bottom line to be what is the VERY BEST way to win now and how best to get that results. And if either man is not 100% in agreement with THAT goal then he shouldn't be here! BTW coaching schemes change with the players one has, if that HC is worthy of being called that in the NFL imho, all the time.
4. No, if we draft Tannehill HE has to realize that he needs to shut up and listen and learn how to be a pro being behind one of the best to ever play the game!
Having said this you certainly have the right to your opinion in this case I just totally disagree. Mainly because of your way of stating your case and not the fact that from a phyical standpoint Peyton Manning just may not be able to rebecome the Peyton Manning of old while others have recovered to rebecome productive. jm2c
Now I would much rather see RGIII in that uni. as I think it is both the better short and long term answer to Miami's QB problem but to dismiss PM out of hand, without first hand and eyeball knowledge which NONE OF US have BTW, is on par with dismissing Drew Brees in 2005. I'd rather NOT like seeing us regret that type move again.Eop05 likes this.
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