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The Question or Ryan Tannehill-Grantland Article

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by finsincebirth, Aug 7, 2014.

  1. finsincebirth

    finsincebirth Well-Known Member

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    Here is a pretty interesting article about Ryan from Grantland, complete with stats and graphs.

    [​IMG]

    http://grantland.com/features/the-question-of-ryan-tannehill/
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I personally think that his "inside the pocket" numbers are tainted by the horrible oline.

    I feel like lots of people judge an oline by if they allow pressure or not and stop there. I don't think enough people are taking into account the AMOUNT of pressure. The pressure Tannehill faced last year was rarely just one guy beating his man. It was often a jailbreak with multiple points of pressure from all parts of the line (left, right & middle).

    Its one thing to expect Tannehill to run to the right if he has pressure from the left or vice versa but so often there was so many people coming in that his escape routes were blocked off. If the line had only allowed just 28 sacks, Tannehill would have had 30 more chances. If he completed those at his current rate that could have given him over 4000 yrds, 25-26 TDs and a rating of 85 to 86.
     
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  3. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That is an awesome graphic.

    Although I question its accuracy. Unless they're excluding some plays, didn't Ryan throw to Wallace deep right in the Carolina game? It was a poorly thrown ball IMO and Wallace made a play on it, but it was a TD.
     
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  4. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can tell where they were trying to throw to Wallace pretty easily.
     
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  5. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Yup, and where Hartline lines up. Medium left sideline and deep left sideline are high QBR while right mid sideline and right deep sideline are lowest.

    Not a left-right bias from the QB, imo. It's a difference in receiver.

    Wallace is not worth the amount we are paying and unless Lazor finds a way to get more out of him we may need to move on from him ASAP.
     
  6. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think it's a right left thing. Look how fantastic the numbers are short right.

    Again I have to question the chart. If you look at frequencies deep left, and deep right, it would seem Tannehill threw deep right a lot more by the size of the hexagons. But it's 46 vs 40. I might be missing something.
     
  7. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Look at the yardage differences in attempts right vs. left.
     
  8. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good read I thought. Although I hated having to re-live that sack Clabo gave up.

    Love looking at that chart though. Interesting to see it broken down like that. Crazy to see how much he struggles in the middle of the field though. He's got to improve on this. I think we're going to see those red zones short of the LOS be very large and very red this year too.

    Nice find though, thanks for sharing.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You got me. I can't make heads or tails of it either.

    Looks pretty, though.
     
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  10. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Maybe the middle field thing is related to the absence of a true big target, TE or WR?

    Or is it just wishful thinking? Because I seem to remember some very good pass from Ryan in that section, but maybe I just remember the good plays
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    For some reason my work is blocking the entire Sun Sentinel website.

    I'm trying to figure if that's a bad thing or not. Suppose it sucks not being able to read what Dave Hyde says.
     
  12. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He just hasn't been that great throwing in the middle of the field since he's been a Dolphin, I can't speak for his college career. It also might be what you said about missing a serious seam threat, and a lot of touchdowns by backs and tight ends in Sherman's offense can be seen by that red area on the graph. Like CK and jd said, it's still inconsistent and missing some statistics.
     
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  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    To throw in a counterpoint to that weird chart nobody can really figure out, Pro Football Focus has some data to offer:

    Left: 77 of 133 for 839 yards, 5 TD, 3 INT - 79.7 PR
    Middle: 180 of 253 for 2002 yards, 8 TD, 10 INT - 88.4 PR
    Right: 98 of 162 for 1072 yards, 11 TD, 4 INT - 92.4 PR
     
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  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The size of the hexagons indicate "target frequency" according to the small legend at the bottom right.

    Now, if anyone can explain what target frequency means, I'd appreciate it.
     
  15. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    It only shows 23 of 24 passing TDs (not counting RT17's rushing TD) and 15 of 17 INTs. His career QBR is 47.8 not .3 -http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14876/ryan-tannehill

    Is the top of the image chopped off or just inaccurate like some of the other things?

    His Passer Rating was 81.7 on 588 attempts. This guy is giving RG-me a pass, but RG's PR was 82.2 on 456 attempts. Wilson and CKap barely throw the ball. They attempt among the least passes of QBs in the NFL. The guys who throw the most, take the most risks and usually have lower stats.
     
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  16. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Yeah we didn't attack the middle of the field much beyond 7 or ten yards. Hit lots of shallow stuff in front of the LBs. Watching Tannehill or Clay or Mathews' season highlights will show the same thing. Oddly enough the handful of balls that DID connect went for really big gains iirc (Clay had a big one, Wallace as well). In whatever yard cutoff they used for this chart he was 5/16 for 190yds...and 3ints. That's one attempt per game out there, and one completion every three weeks...not good.

    He needs to improve in that area of the field. It's not an unusual problem at all. He's young, and throwing in there is difficult. But it helps explain why we saw so few big plays and so little yac numbers. Those are the quick strikes you can hit on a rope right in front of you for chunk yards. Hopefully Lazor's design helps him get that stuff clicking.
     
  17. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    I think it's partly personnel. Wallace and Hartline haven't done a tone of work in that area in their careers. They aren't that kind of player (I'm thinking of guys who make their money down the middle: Victor Cruz, Marques Colston, Reggie Wayne, Gronk). Clay is smallish and still developing as a route runner/seam threat, imo, and going up inside there isn't easy. CUE: Jarvis Landry. He's got the hands and the toughness and the savvy to find space in there and make himself available and finish the play.
     
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  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I don't have any way to prove it, however I do believe most of Clay's drops were over the middle.
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    who the fu@& cares Fin.
     
  20. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Hexagons are actual spots where T17 threw the ball. Target Frequency is the number of times T17 threw to those spots. Larger hex means T17 threw there more often, smaller ones mean he threw there less often.
     
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  21. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Only thing I disagree with is that he hasn't show much progression since rookie year to end of last year
     
  22. Griese's Glasses

    Griese's Glasses Well-Known Member

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    A side effect of not-watching-him-actually-play syndrome. Any and all articles written by joes who only study the record books and who barely watch the sport in action can be written off as rubbish.
     
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  23. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Any comparison of mid left and mid right, and deep lt vs deep rt?
     
  24. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Left, right, middle, meh. I'd love to see a breakdown of how often RT threw where he was supposed to.
     
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  25. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I have felt all along that this is a do or die year for both Tannehill and Philbin. It is playoffs or bust and if this team has another 500 season or worse, I don't expect Philbin will be the head coach in 2015 and the next HC will probably want to bring in his own QB of the future.

    If Tannehill is the QB many on here feel he is, he will step up and lead this team to the playoffs this year. Just as four of the other QB's drafted in the 2012 draft have led their teams to the playoffs since they were drafted.

    I have no idea if he has what it takes to make that next step up as an NFL QB, but he has 16 more regular season games and hopefully at least one playoff game to prove he can be the long term answer for the Dolphins at the QB position. I certainly hope he does, because I have no desire to see the Dolphins start their search for a franchise QB, all over again.
     
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  26. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    This is interesting. Less success to the left side and less failure as well. Way too many picks to the middle but a respectable pr. I don't think anyone is surprised he is better to his right.
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    What is perhaps most interesting is that while he had a passer rating of 92.4 throwing to his right side where Mike Wallace played, he only had a passer rating of 59.6 when throwing to Mike Wallace (by the way, that is ABSURDLY low).

    Right Side to Mike Wallace: 49 of 89 for 600 yards, 3 TD, 4 INT - 68.6 PR
    Right Side to Everyone Else: 49 of 73 for 472 yards, 8 TD, 0 INT - 121.5 PR

    Middle to Mike Wallace: 23 of 45 for 323 yards, 2 TD, 5 INT - 49.8 PR
    Middle to Everyone Else: 157 of 208 for 1679 yards, 6 TD, 5 INT - 98.2 PR

    Do the same exercise with Brian Hartline, who inhabited the left side, and I think the comparison is instructive.

    Left Side to Brian Hartline: 33 of 68 for 447 yards, 2 TD, 3 INT - 61.3 PR
    Left Side to Everyone Else: 44 of 65 for 392 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT - 99.0 PR

    Middle to Brian Hartline: 38 of 51 for 526 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT - 105.5 PR
    Middle to Everyone Else (incl. Mike Wallace): 142 of 202 for 1476 yards, 7 TD, 9 INT - 84.1 PR
    Middle to Everyone Else (excl. Mike Wallace): 119 of 157 for 1153 yards, 5 TD, 4 INT - 95.8 PR
     
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  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    While it could certainly be argued that the presences of Brian Hartline and Mike Wallace helped other players to catch passes efficiently as they ran into the side of the field the two receivers vacated, only one of the players was efficient when running into a different part of the field.

    Tannehill had a 105.5 passer rating when throwing to Brian Hartline between the numbers, but only a piss poor 49.8 passer rating when throwing to Mike Wallace between the numbers. As both were perimeter wide receivers (VERY little slot alignment for either player), the "middle" should have been neutral ground with neither having an inherent advantage.
     
  29. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    The thing that kills me about Wallace is that Cris Carter is supposedly his mentor yet he hasn't competed like Carter in any way since joining the Dolphins.
     
  30. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Really? Never heard that. What kind of mentorship? Do they work together in the off-season or is CC just pumping him full of hot air? I wonder how CC felt MW declining Minnesota's offer.
     

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