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The Tannehill challenge.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Feb 28, 2014.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/5791/its-now-or-never-for-ryan-tannehill


    Time to become the leader of the team Ryan, on and off, you now control your fate, my advice is to forget about hanging in the pocket at all costs, and get your *** to do whatever it needs to do to win..

    And that goes for leadership as well, no more seniority rules, no more idiots controlling the locker room, speak up, get outside the box, let it go, lose yourself, play eminem, visit Pennington more, take an acting class (lol), scream out loud for no reason, go a little loco with your teammates, maybe run for a first down on occasion while your at it..forget that #### that Sherman taught you! and show us that you have some ability to make plays consistently.
     
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  2. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    It's a shame, if it weren't for the Bills vs. Jets games to close the season everybody would be singing Tannehill's praises this offseason. Fair or not those final 2 games are given more weight than the great things he did last season like the New England Game, Pittsburgh game, Atlanta, just to name a few.
     
  3. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I'm hoping Lazor takes a sledgehammer to Sherman's philosophies. That and an improved running game will make RT look better even if he's still the same QB.

    A big TE or WR who can attack the middle while Wallace and Hartline work outside. Gotta have more diversity in the screen game and use the backs to do more than pass pro.

    Deej you you hit the nail on the head, RT should take more of a leadership role and use his legs as a weapon more often. Make teams pay for blitzing and/or playing a lot of man. Buy extra time for Wallace to get behind the D for big plays. Vary the cadence more. Throw in some pump fakes. It's the little things...
     
  4. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I'd give you 50 fist bumps if I could.
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's not true at all, and you're giving him way too much credit where it's not deserved. How many slant passes did he throw over ten yards last season that hit his receiver in stride? None. How many deep passes did he hit Wallace in stride? None. How many times did he anticipate the pocket collapsing and run for a first down? A handful of times. These are all key elements that last year's offense was built for, and Tannehill failed in almost every aspect.

    Besides, you mentioned the Pats, Atlanta and Pitt games...he had a combined QB rating in those three games of 107.8...which is solid from a statistical standpoint. At the same time though, his worst three games averaged out to a 48.5 quarterback rating...and two of them were in must-win situation against inferior opponents. You can't win football games when you have a top 10 QB one week and a bottom 5 QB the next. Michael Vick, RG3 and dozens of others have proven that time and time again.

    I'm not saying that Tannehill can't become the QB you're hoping for, but he's nowhere near there yet. His accuracy issues are impossible to ignore and he got screwed by the former OC when he was forbidden to scramble and run for first downs. Between bad coaching, a horrible line and not being able to find his timing, this is likely his make or break season coming up.
     
  6. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I disagree with pretty much everything else :huh1:
     
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  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he needs to improve his own personal game, we can talk olineman, skill players and better coordinators, bottom line he needs to play and lead better.
     
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  8. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with this, but there's certainly components that he does not have control over that are a detriment to the team; the coaching staff last year being the primary culprit.
     
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  9. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    It's one of those "He can't pull himself out of bad situations... except for the times he did".

    Believe they call that a "narrative"

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
     
  10. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Deej...all due respect, he gonna need some help. If we again field another OL like the ones we've had for 15 yrs now, he'll never make it...it'll be David Carr or Joey Harrington all over again...
     
  11. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Geez O' Pete, Deej.. You make it sound like he's Custer leading the Seventh Cav.. If anything, he's more like Capt. Kirk leading the Three Stooges against the Klingons.. Far, far too much blame and fame are attached to the quarterback in football... Sure, they handle the ball every play (usually), but let one of the other 11 turn into a walking FUBAR on one play and the whole team loses that play. When you have 4 of them on the O line - the team is going to lose a whole lot of plays, and that is what happened against Barfallo and the Yets.. but their two defenses made the O line (which by that time was cobbled together with cast-offs and rookies) look like cub scouts consistently in the last two games. Angelo's analysis is a real piece of work... designed to make him money by attracting hits. Yet, he writes an apocalyptic article about the demise of the Dolphins IF.... and everyone buys into it.

    There have been changes already (not enough in my opinion) which - depending on who the 'Phins get to man the offensive line - should make this year a better determinative year for Tannehill than last.

    People also forget that Marino came into a team that was a Super Bowl contender already. This team is not anywhere near the level of competency the 1984 team was. So, that comparison was cooking the books a lot.

    I agree with one part of what you said.. This will be the year Tannehill has to make his move or be shuffled off the stage - because most people have forgotten how to analyze and think and have mobbed along with the whine and blame crowd.
     
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  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    So you agree with the official statistics that support your love of Tannehill, but ignore them whenever he plays poorly?
     
  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Forgotten how to analyze? In case you didn't notice, the national media has been very high on Tannehill from the start, even though his statistics consistently put him in the bottom ten of the league. You guys want to blame all of that on the offensive line, yet Ryan threw more passes than only a handful of starters. He's just not that accurate on the field when it counts, and ignoring all the poor throws does not mean that they didn't happen.

    With a new line, a new coach and a new coordinator...who knows what will happen in 2014. You have to remember though, Philbin was given a lot of the credit for developing Green Bay's QBs, yet he hasn't done a thing with Tannehill one on one to help the kid. If anything, they've held him back by insisting that he's a pure passer, even when the team had no run game. None of that is Ryan's fault and he can still grow into something special, but he has to get the timing down to hit receivers in stride...particularly on the deep ball and across the middle.
     
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  14. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Not at all, I just think you're being overly negative.
     
  15. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    So is his improvement from 2012 to 2013. That cannot be ignored. I'm not trying to say he was perfect last season. There were games where he wasn't good enough, especially the last 2. But there aren't many QBs in the NFL that don't have at least a couple bad games per season. I do agree though, 2014 will be a big year for Tannehill. New OC, hopefully the issues along the OL are addressed and maybe another playmaker or 2 on offense. It's my opinion that he will continue to improve but only time will tell.
     
  16. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    It's possible to say his inaccuracy was responsible for ending Dustin Keller and Gibson's promising seasons. Throwing high and behind the receiver is setting your teammate up for death. His accuracy is inconsistent. Aside from that, I think the bigger problem was the offense was too predictable. Defenses pinned their ears back run and pass blitzed. Sherman against Buffalo when we were in position to win the game called two passes in a row; a sack, then a sack fumble resulted. That series alone and poor play calling was the difference between us getting to the playoffs and likely beating Cinci in the first round. So Tannehill's inaccuracy slightly offset all the great things that he did to keep drives alive despite very little help from his coach and teammates.
     
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  17. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    D. J. Swearinger is responsible for Keller's missed season. Two receivers got injured, but Clay, Wallace, Hartline, Matthews, Egnew, and Sims all survived. The percentages are in Tannehill's favor.

    Also, this year was a statistical anomaly for the NFL. Everyone tore their knee this year. I sprained my PCL just typing this.
     
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  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I credited his strengths and weaknesses, while you said he has no weaknesses. I'm not being overly anything...except realistic.
     
  19. RT showed some improvement from his rookie season. The optimist in me is hoping that it was just a case of the sophomore slump curse that many players are victim too. My biggest concern is his accuracy. He needs to place the ball better. My second biggest concern is his footwork in the pocket. He needs to do a better job of making guys miss him and buy time.
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Sure, I'm not denying that at all, but you're also talking about baby steps here. He went from a 76.1 rating to a 81.7 rating, so overall his game didn't progress that much. The reason we disagree is that you see him doubling his TD passes on the year and 4,000 yards...which is definitely a huge improvement...but he also threw 100 more passes because we had zero run game. Again, a lot of that isn't his fault and a change at OC should help a lot, but he has to be more accurate so others can make plays. I'm not hating on the guy at all, but holding the title of 24th overall in QB efficiency is nothing to celebrate.

    He was also 27th in yards per attempt, despite being 10th in total yards...which is a very clear indication of where the main problem lies. His receivers aren't doing anything after the catch, so either the ball is inaccurate or our receivers are just horrible. Again, it's pretty much common sense IF you want to see the truth, but a lot of people here don't want to see it.
     
  21. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I've mentioned many a time that there is a lot I like about Tanne and I haven"t yet given up hope. He did some great things last year. He put a lot on his back and hung in there despite being sacked more than any other QB in the NFL. He kept us in some games, but there were several times when he also hurt us with his weaknesses. His pocket presence needs work. His accuracy and ball placement needs work. He needs to be able to scan the whole field, post snap, a lot better. His deep ball, etc. The last game was all on him, imo. We would have been in the playoffs had it not been for those two atrocious games. With that said, he has to make some serious improvements this year if he's going to be considered are franchise QB or whatever. I haven't given up hope, but yes, this will be his make or break year, imo. I hope for the best.
     
  22. I disagree that this is his make or break year. Unless he has a total meltdown next year he will more than likely be here year 4 too barring a coaching change. They might bring in some cheap competition to push him if he struggles next season but they are not going to invest heavily in looking for his replacement before his contract is up. There is too many holes to fill and he has shown enough at the position to be considered serviceable. Sadly he may end up being Matt Moores replacement if does not show any more progress.
     
  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    From the way things are unfolding, I am almost expecting a coaching change in 2015 unless Miami wins 9+ games and a playoff game. Now, they have the talent to do that, but they're going to be installing their 4th offensive system in the last 6 years and the offensive line is just too big of a question mark to take anything for granted at this point. I'd love to see Tannehill to have a true breakout year...a lot of QB's have done it in year 3...but I'm not getting my hopes up anymore.

    Honestly, I just don't have the faith in Philbin that I used to, so I think it's a make-or-break year for a whole lot more of the organization than we realize. Make no mistake though, Philbin is officially out of excuses.
     
  24. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    There's little reason for anyone to have faith in Philbin but the Lazor hire is great for Tannehill imo.
     
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  25. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill made solid progress in his 2nd year, he also made some mistakes that you'd expect from a 2nd year player. Frankly there are some people that just simply don't understand the Qb position and how a Qb develops over time or how the small factors like the worst Oline in the history of the franchise and the worst running game in the history of the franchise can affect Qb play. It always amazes me how lofty some people's expectations are and how silly they act when their ridiculously high bar isn't reached. IF Tannehill regresses this year then we can really start a conversation about replacing him but honestly I'm not worried. If they put the pieces around him he will get better. The only knock on him that I wholeheartedly agree with is that he needs to improve his deep ball accuracy, it was terrible this year.
     
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  26. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Deep ball accuracy can vary widely year to year I think. Flacco has been among the top in the league his entire career. This year when he faced thevsane challenges as Tannehill he was among the worst.

    I think if you improve the protection and run game the deep ball accuracy will fix itself to some extent.
     
  27. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    His second year went like you would expect a second year to go for a QB. It's just that his peers have been uncharacteristically awesome.

    Typical second season for a QB: shows flashes of why you picked him high and have given him the reigns; not quite ready to take over the locker room; head-scratching inconsistency week to week; victim to let-down games coming off a big win; not quite ready for do-or-die pressure. This isn't unusual at all.

    If Wilson, Luck, Foles, and Kaepernik weren't winning so often this wouldn't even be a conversation. This, RT's 3rd, is probably his make or break year, imo. He has the targets (damn expensive targets, mind you), has consistency at HC, plays in a crap division in a meh AFC. Gotta make the playoffs.
     
  28. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    When did I say he had no weaknesses? I actually gave a list of things I think he needs to improve on in post #3 of the thread.
     
  29. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    So the running backs should be great without a line, but Tannehill's entire excuse is the line? Come on...either the line is a problem or it's not.

    Besides, it's not a lofty expectation to ask a QB to be accurate; especially over the middle where receivers get killed going up for bad passes. It's not a lofty expectation to ask a QB to hit his deep threat in stride either- Moore only played one quarter of football the whole season, yet he hit Wallace in stride on his second throw. If a guy that's ridden the bench for 20+ months can do it once in a quarter, then surely it's not a "lofty expectation" to wonder why Tannehill never did it accurately in 32 games. It's a definite problem and it's also why we were one of the lowest scoring teams in the league.
     
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  30. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Plain and simple: Do you think Tannehill has, in his first two years, done enough to be the unquestioned starter going into this season?
     
  31. So far Philbin has been a less than adequate HC. I honestly can not identify one thing in my mind that I think he is exceptional at. I can however think of a few things that he is poor at. Even if they did win 9+ I would not lose sleep over him being replaced unless it looked like those wins came because of him and not despite of him.

    I think if they do fire him there is a fairly good chance that the new HC will retain RT another season depending on circumstances. I don't think RTs future is attatched to Philbins.





    I agree that Miami has enough talent to have a winning record. Their record is a reflection on the staffs ability to coach players up, game plan, make adjustments, etc...

    I'ld love to see him do that too but I will be satisfied to give him more time as long as he shows significant improvement and growth from game to game and from season to season. Unless you think he has reached his plateau I don't know how anyone can draw a conclusion on the kid. I think we are stuck sticking it out with him until he stops growing.

    Im rooting for him to succeed. I want to be wrong about him but he has yet to do anything to impress me as a HC.
     
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The oline shares a majority of the blame for the run game sucking, imo. As to Moore...he threw one sweet deep ball...and then picked twice, I believe, one on a deep ball. Tannehill was not good at them, but he had zero protection.
     
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, no...not by a long shot. He has incredible talent and a huge ceiling, but they should have started Moore last year (2 seasons ago) and gave Tannehill time to adjust to the speed of the NFL. Instead, they take this golden boy who occasionally has flashes of Peyton Manning, and they watch defenses beat the living s&#t out of him while he tries to get the hang of things. Has he grown? Sure, but how much has he lost by being the NFL's whipping boy behind that line? How badly has he been developed by telling him to never run for the first down?

    In my humble opinion, Chad Henne had all the makings of being an incredible NFL quarterback. He took over for Pennington though after the injury and ran an offense built for 5 yard touch passes, yet this guy has a rocket for an arm and can't throw touch passes at all. That's literally the definition of insanity...doing something over and over again but expecting different results. Henning, Sparano, Lee and a handful of other personally destroyed any chance our boy Henne had of being a future great.

    So back to Tannehill. Is the same thing happening here? Let's see...the line is still a joke, so we have a kid getting killed all day long. We buy one of the fastest, explosive receivers in the league, but Tannehill can't get the timing down. We call the fewest runs of any team in the league last year, which told defenses to send jailbreak blitzes just about every down. And in the end, Tannehill's QB rating went up 4 points on the year...hardly anything to be excited about.

    Tannehill has BIG accuracy issues, and that can't be corrected with him in the dirt for half the game. He needs confidence and that only comes with repetition...just not the kind he got in 2013. So to answer your question, I would have benched Tannehill in 2012, let him learn under Moore, and possibly let him start sometime in 2013. I do see him as the unquestionable starter next year, but only because Philbin bet the farm on him and started him too early. If Moore or somebody else starts this season, Tannehill's career is likely over in Miami.
     
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  34. The plan was to have RT sit behind Garad and that changed after his hot tub injury. I don't think starting RT has damaged him though.
     
  35. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

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    I have been quiet since we collapsed last season. The offseason we have had so far has made me sick to the point I've stayed away from this board for awhile just so I can remember why i love the Miami Dolphins. Ryan Tannehill is the least of my worries with this team. This kid has prevailed through all this dramatic bs that normal rookies don't deal with ever. He was suffocated by an outdated OC and honestly taught wrong. I hope the new OC and this "fresh start" can really spark him. This kid has all the talent in the world. If he fails, I don't blame Tannehill one bit. I blame this organization more than anything. I have more faith in Ryan Tannehill than I do all of the coaching leaders and front office leaders combined. I just hope he can learn in this environment.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    and I understand your point, but I'm always talking about what it takes to win a Super Bowl, what he showed the last two years in isolation wouldn't be good enough, I don't believe.

    I don't question the arm, I don't question the accuracy, to me it all comes down to understanding the pocket, how to escape it, when to escape it, how to reset it, and most importantly how to actually anticipate the rush..I'm not sure one can get a whole lot better in those areas, I know a good oline can help, but when playoffs kick in, and when your on the road, pockets collapse all the time..

    If I was Lazor, this offense would have more movement from the Qb position than any other in the league, why?, two reasons, 1, you have a Qb that isn't very deft within the pocket at manipulating it, and two, he's lethal on the run going both directions.
     
  37. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Yes!
     
  38. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I agree. Has he done enough to be the unquestioned starter the next ten years? Nope. This season? Yes.

    There is noone on the roster with a higher ceiling and drafting a QB early would be a waste.
     
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  39. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Anyone who watched the games last year and did not see that the offensive line was THE SOURCE of the Dolphin's problems is blind. As soon as we saw that Martin was not going to be even a capable Left Tackle, the season was in jeopardy. When nothing was done to rectify that situation, it began going downhill fast. The fact that the team got TO 8 - 8 with that line is a wonder in itself.

    Reconfigure that line to the point that the runners actually have a gap into which to run most of the time, and Tannehill is not having to use four eyes to scan the field for targets as well as keep an eye on a dismal LT block and use peripheral vision to see if the middle of the line is collapsing as fast as he is back pedaling and his accuracy "COULD" improve!

    And if you think I am attempting to hold back on my sarcasm - you would be right.
     
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  40. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    Again, totally agree. Rather than drafting another qb let's put this one in a position to win.
     

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