The Trenches: The Dolphins are a Very Talented Team

It wouldn't have changed our record so far.

He may not be ready yet. Players develop at different speeds. Its not a issue to be *****ing about.

 

Is it a problem for the top GMs in the NFL when they don't hit on 3rd rounders also?

Or is it just a mark against JI?

 

Yes it's a problem for all GMs particularly when you have a need at the position you are drafting.

A 3rd rounder should be able to contribute. Egnew was a Top 100 player selected in the draft. It isn't asking all that much that he be good enough to at least be active right away. We're not talking about a 7th round pick here.

 

The Dolphins rookie class this year has been incredibly productive so far. We're two weeks into the season and we've got seven rookie players who are all starting or seeing a good amount of rotational snaps and performing well.

Jury is still out of Tannehill, but Lane, Miller, Martin, Vernon, Randall, and Shelby all look like pretty successful picks at this point.

 

The criticism of Ireland for the Marshall trade seems way off base. It was reported by multiple sources that it was Philbin who wanted Brandon Marshall gone.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...andon-marshall

Barry Jackson similarly reported that Philbin didn't see Marshall as a good fit.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/1...#storylink=cpy


This is indirectly corroborated by everything we saw about Philbin on Hard Knocks. I think it is fairly clear that Brandon Marshall would not have been a subject Philbin was ambivalent about. If he wanted Marshall here and Ireland traded him out from under Philbin against Philbin's knowledge or wishes, we certainly would have heard about it. We do know that Philbin and Ireland work together and discuss major personnel moves. We know Philbin said he doesn't believe you need to have a No. 1 receiver. We know that the team was planning, or at least thinking, about drafting a first round QB and that Marshall can be very hard on QBs. We know that Philbin is a bit "prudish" for lack of a better term and is extremely concerned about appearances and how the players conduct themselves in public and in the locker room. I think it all paints a reasonably clear picture that Philbin would not have been a big Brandon Marshall fan. I'd go as far as to say that Joe Philbin probably would have affirmatively hated Brandon Marshall.

So we got 2 3rd round picks for him. I guess one could argue that maybe we could have gotten more, but I don't think there is any real evidence of that. I haven't heard a single report about another team that was willing to give more. I haven't heard anything about any other team wanting him at all.

It is similarly clear that Philbin didn't need/want the proverbial No. 1 receiver. He stressed that what he wanted was balance in the targets:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...in-dolphins-dont-need-true-no-1-wide-receiver

The guys Philbin had in Green Bay were not physical freaks or even first round picks. At this time last year Jordy Nelson was a bulkier Brian Hartline, albeit less productive. Greg Jennings was a late 2nd round pick with pretty average size and speed. There were several No. 1 type receivers available in FA, but we didn't pursue any of them. There is no doubt in my mind that if Philbin had wanted one, we would have at least brought those guys in. But we didn't. There is no indication that Philbin was the least bit annoyed or bothered by the fact that we didn't.

And the truth is that we have not been damaged by the lack of a No. 1 receiver. We have not had an unusual number of coverage sacks. Guys are getting open. They are catching the ball. As KB pointed out, Hartline has been more productive and efficient than Brandon Marshall this year. And over the last two years, when Marshall was productive it didn't help much. In two years here, the Dolphins were 6-14 in games in which Marshall had 5 or more receptions. They were 5-2 in games in which he had 3 or fewer.

 

Does it mean that they are that good, or the need to fill positions is so great that they are starting out of necessity?

 

Typical punk move by you with the personal insults.

And by the way, what exactly are Vernon/Randall and Shelby doing that is so spectacular? Sure, they are rookies that are playing and that's great, but until one of them makes an actual play, I'd cool it with caloling them unqualified successes.

And the fact that unbdrafted guys are playing yet a 3rd round pick is not is pretty bad, particularly when that 3rd rounder plays a position of need where Tanny could use another weapon.

Lastly, there is nothing more I would love than to personally insult you but unlike you I can control myself in a semi-public forum.

 

By all means, point out who doesn't belong on the field at this point in the role they are player.

 

It isnt about that....it is about the overall makeup of the team...

 

Did I say they were spectacular? Vernon is less impressive than the other two, but Shelby has gotten quite a bit of pressure for his snap count and Randall has become a quality, well-rounded rotational player at a position that you generally don't get those quickly.

The fact that you think Michael Egnew being inactive two games in his rookie season is some sort of damning indictment of anything proves what I'm saying isn't a personal insult, it's 100% accurate.

 

No, it's not. You suggested that players are in their positions because of need rather than merit, it's absolutely reasonable to expect you to be able to back that exact thing up.

 

because a R&B singer smacking around a pop princess is the same thing as a personnel transaction in the NFL.

Perfect analogy.

 

Voila.

Brian Hartline is just as good as Brandon Marshall.

This can't be real life.

since one game means so much, I am gonna go ahead and say that Danny Amendola is better than Jerry Rice.

Dante Rosario is better than Jimmy Graham.

Reggie Bush is better than Walter Payton.

 

Fact remains that while a Miami Dolphin, Brandon Marshall wasn't as good as Brandon Marshall.

 

Great..as long as you can arrange for the Dolphins to play the Raiders 14 more times, then we will be set.

 

still pretty good though.

 

to quote Fineas from his post above:

 

STL is one of the few teams that has less overall talent than us yet they are one play away from being 2-0. Funny things can happen during a season but ususally talent wins out over the long haul.

 

I can always count on you to be incoherently arrogant.

Sure..I can agree that you don't give up more sacks and pressures to better opponents. LOL.

This has to be some really elaborate practical joke. Where are the cameras?

 

Yep. And though this is a small sample size, Miami is averaging roughtly 45 more yards per game and 2.5 points per game this year than they did last year with Marshall. Also, Miami is averaging 5.5 yards per offensive play so far this year. Last year with Marshall, they averaged 5.1 yards per play.

If anything, the evidence shows that Brandon Marshall had a NEGATIVE effect on the Miami Dolphins during his time here.

The only foolish trade was the one Jeff made to acquire him in the first place. Miami fell into the trap of thinking that a wide receiver would take the team to the next level when the actual impact a receiver makes is minimal at best.

 

The Miami Heat was like 11-2 without Dwyane Wade. See how that works?

 

You should have stopped there.

 

Why is it a knee-jerk reaction to question Jake Long after two games, our WRs after a preseason and one game, the Vontae Davis trade, etc.?

But it's not a knee jerk reaction to declare Olivier Vernon, Kheeston Randall, Jonathon Martin, etc. as general successes after a convincing win against a bad football team?

Anyone else seeing the double standard going on here?

I'd like to beat a good football team, or at least a decent football team (Jets) before I start validating some of Ireland's decisions.

The Raider win was nice. It was a relief to see that we're not as bad as I feared we could've been. It was a relief to see that Philbin and staff are indeed a far cry from Cam Cameron (not that I ever thought he was). The running game was better than I had expected. Oline better than expected.

But I do suspect the Raiders will be picking top 5 come April 2013

 

No. Because they won more with Wade. No one took a bull**** small sample size. That was based on BMarsh's entire tenure here. Try again.

 

check your sample sizes. they are damn near identical.

Mine has 13 games, yours had 7. the win% mirror each other.

 

It isnt very difficult to figure out what I said....figure it out for yourself....

 

There have been only 9 games in his career where he got a better pass blocking rating than he got against Houston in week 1.

 

Why? Because Miami's offense was also better in 2008 and 2009 before they got him. Miami averaged more points per game and more yards per play in 2008 when the trio of Greg Camarillo, Davone Bess, and Ted Ginn Jr were the top three pass catchers on the team

If anything, you are the one tasked with showing me statistical evidence that Brandon Marshall had a positive impact on this team.

 

Exactly.

You can enjoy the win without it validating every organizational decision the last 5 years. If we win 8 or 9 more times then perhaps some thing s will need to be re-evaluated, but considering the Ireland brigade doesn't seem to hold losses against him I'm not sure winning should have any overall positive affect on him.

But we have a long way to go and alot of the wins people were chalking up (Arizona, STL) don't appear to be complete gimmes anymore, so we'll see.

If Ireland wants to impress me, he can trade for a WR at the deadline. That I would like to see.

 

No they aren't. Seriously man, you just need to stop, you are actually damaging your rep.

13 basketball games is now identical to 2 full football seasons?

Wow. You are right about one thing, this is obviously not real life.

 

So, assuming some here are right, and Brian Hartline has matched Marshall's production.

Who then has matched Hartline's production?

Is it Naanee's 0 for 0 yards, Moore's 0 for 0 yards, or Armstrong's 1 for 3 yards?

 

I was thinking the same thing.

So I can expect the results to be similar when Blocking Terrell Suggs as opposed to Matt Shaughnessy?

There's a reason why J'marcus Webb gave up 4 sacks to Clay Matthews

 

Even the blind fanboys should be able to see with Long it has gone on longer than 2 games....

 

different players. coordinators. poor comparison.

 

So you would like to see Ireland trade for a position that is going to have very little overall impact on the outcome of this season?

 

Heads are exploding now.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

Same team, same sport, many same players equals a bad comparison. But 13 basketball games vs two seasons of football is a good comparison?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!\

 

Sure. Don't get me wrong. Even at his level of play now, I'm satisfied. But for another 12 mil/year. Not good enough

 

So now you are trying to make an excuse for Marshall's lack of impact.

 

Actually a really good point.