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Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Aqua4Ever04, May 5, 2014.
lol, thats the worst idea i have ever seen
Care to explain why?
Cause deciding the outcome of the most important sporting competition in the world by the current system is awesome
That method of removing players from the field results in the team with more talent, in better shape, and better prepared almost always the victor. And isn't that the goal. That the best team wins?
But I know. I root for Italy, so anything I say you'll disagree with, like you have this entire thread.
Just let them play for 30 minutes as they have, but instead of penalties.. then go golden goal until someone scores.
I think that can be considered dangerous as you can have games going over 200 minutes in theory (and probably would happen too).
EDIT: But yeah, it's still better than PKs
Eop, I can't agree with your system. It takes skill out of the game and it will be decided by whoever is best fit at the time, not necessarily the better team. 10v10, to 9v9, to 8v8? An entire soccer pitch with 8v8? It will ruin the sport IMO. Skill is nullified by fatigue, and the more fit team will usually win, not the better skilled. PKs takes fatigue out and puts all emphasis on skill.
People despise PKs so much that they'd rather see some sort of alternative that completely abandons the roots of the sport and in my opinion, makes the outcome decided more so by luck and alternative factors way beyond PKs. During PKs, you one on one with the goalie and you should score 9 of 10 attempts - but people still miss. There is immense pressure on the taker and that brings out a different aspect to the game and involves more skill compared to an 8v8 long ball lottery. Why not take off sides out completely during OT to encourage more goals while we're at it?
eh.. instead of penalties then just have FIFA rankings decide the winner.. whoever is ranked higher wins ....
Opening the field up will bring upon more goals. Like I said, If you want to stop the removal of players at 9 v 9, then that's cool too. I think you're bound to have a goal on 9v9 in 30 minutes.
But I disagree that PKs puts emphasis on skill completely. Wesley Sneijder took a great PK yesterday. It was saved because the goalie guessed correctly.
PKs ruin the sport far more than a 9v9 or 8v8 goal IMHO. And I'd rather the team win that's in better shape at that time than the team whose goalie "guessed" the best. At least the team in less-shape still has a chance and can still overcome fatigue with superior skill or tactics
It's not like my idea or some variation of it would ever be implemented. But as someone who is very open-minded, I think it's drastically superior to the current system
Not the greatest placement to be honest, hardly qualifying as a great shot in my opinion. It looked better than it was from TV angle because I shared your exact thougths;
And if a player skillfully places a shot, why can't a goalie skillfully parry it? Why is it just a guess for the goalie and no credit is given to execution and reflexes? How many times do you see goalies go the right way and still can't adjust their body to the shot and either miss completely or only get a piece of it, not enough for the full save? Or, the goalie guess wrong and still kicks his leg out to make a save behind him? But, its the player that misses, not the goalie that makes the save? Also, it is a psychological battle too, so again, a lot more going on to decide a win as opposed to determining who is better fit.
That's opinion, not fact. Multiple sources have said he was not going to go for the Holland game and *maybe* the tournament. Maybe.
If you read earlier posts you'll also see that a teammate came back to play 10 days after a similar injury this World Cup. di Maria has 9 days between his last game and the final.
Plus, it's the final. In South America.
The boy will play. I'd be shocked if he didn't.
You must not see many bad ideas then.
So you're telling me that you can see ideas?
How fit you are SHOULD be a big part of ANY sport.
Why do we care if a player is bigger, faster, stronger if physicality 'shouldn't' be a factor? It IS a fator in sport that the better physique has an advantage.
And such should be the case here too.
In fact I love the idea that lazy, entitled uber-talented players would suffer the consequences while hard working and moderately talented players could be rewarded. You know why... it would begin to motivate the most talented players to appreciat the value of conditioning! And then we would see even HIGHER quality soccer out of those players.
I would love anything that stressed the value of treating your body as your professional instrument. Let the immature or lazy players lose. Fine with me.
Really? So would you think that deciding a game 7 of an NBA final with free throws would honor the roots of basketball better than having them at least run, pass, defend and shoot? Sure it alters things to have less players... but at least all the elements of the game are still there!
omg, someone rotoscoped my cheetos dust t-shirt guy!
(for a sec I thought it was a Linklater movie clip)
There is a difference between being fit, and approaching a level of physical and mental fatigue that completely nullifies said skill and concentration. The human body has its own limitations, disregard these lazy entitled uber stars that you mention. These guys run 8+ kilometers a game in 90 minutes. Extra time with 11 on 11 is a physical test in itself - notice the numerous muscle cramps and bodies failing, etc? You are then proposing to tax the human body even more with the logic that the better team is the one that can handle the physical circumstances better than the other in a 9v9 or 8v8 environment? That is not a way to decide a game and involves more variables correlated to luck and undeserving victories compared to PKs in my book. At that point fitness levels have nothing to do with it.
C'mon bro. Apples to oranges.
I'm pointing out that you're not applying your point of view equally across the board to all sports... so, for some reason, it's being applied to soccer but not something else. Why is that? What is it about soccer that has you applying your reasoning differently than other sports?
Is there something this game means to you that you feel would be lost or ruined by this approach?
Btw, in today's sports-entertainment culture I think TV networks would want PKs or sudden death as the only two real options to heighten tension and viewership.
Hockey and Soccer have PKs. Why doesn't Basketball have free throws to decide then? Why doesn't baseball have a home run derby to decide? Why doesn't football have a field goal competition to decide? You can't apply identical values and points of view to different sports.
As to why I feel this way has nothing to do with how I view the sport, or how I personally perceive it compared to others; I am of the opinion that Eop's proposition is not a fair way to decide a game for the reasons I've listed and elaborated on, and think PKs offer more of a legitimate way to decide a game compared to taking players off the field and rolling the dice to see which team cramps up the least.
Hockey already implements this sort of approach. Overtime is 4v4 rather than 5v5.
This doesn't compromise the integrity of the game in the least. But yeah, Hockey had the stupidest idea ever too.......laugh out loud
I think this bolded statement is where we fundamentally disagree. All good though.
Hockey in the regular season does 4v4 overtimes, which is awesome IMO. And they do Penalty shots only in the regular season following those 4v4 overttimes.
They do not let the most crucial games (playoff games) go to Penalty shots, which IMO is right. Unfortunately, they still do 5v5 which is why we see games go 3,4, and 5 OTs which is like insane IMO. I would implement a 4v4 OT periods in the playoffs too. Then it would be perfect. I'd doubt you'd see any overttimes go more than 1 20 minute period. 2 max
Which reinforces my point about leaving soccer at 11v11. Taking players off changes the game completely and the NHL doesn't see a 4v4 as the proper means of deciding a game. Why should soccer see anything different. Also, hockey you have subs and unlimited changes. Soccer you have three subs, and even if you introduce another one or two extra for overtime, you sill have exhausted and incapacitated players out there, especially with more field to cover in the 8v8/9v9 scenario.
We have differing opinions and I say we agree to disagree. I hate penalties when they work against Italy (Final 1994 vs Brasil) but don't mind them when they work in Italy's favor (Final 2006 vs France)
i don't know before the game yesterday there was a report on german television that he is out with a muscle fibre tear, these things normally linger for 10-14 days
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lol very true, 2006 sure made up for going out 3 consecutive WCs on penalties (1990, 1994, 1998). I thought they were cursed till 8 years ago
Problem with penalties is that the goalie cheats most of the time. He is coming off his line to cut down the angle and the side referee isnt calling it. Now before u say its too subjective to call, I recall it being called twice in the last Womens WC.
The fact that all four of us agree on something is.... Something!
Gonna miss this thread after Sunday.
Also, ten finalist for Golden Ball announced:
Angel di Maria (ARG) (my final game hero)
Mats Hummels (GER)
Toni Kroos (GER)
Philipp Lahm (GER)
Javier Mascherano (ARG)
Lionel Messi (ARG) (yeah he's okay I guess. Lol.)
Thomas Muller (GER) (winner 2010)
Arjen Robben (HOL)
Well, we have the other soccer thread, which has been around a long time... that's an option for you, if you look at the club level teams there... or, this thread could just be renamed the World Soccer thread to discuss national teams and their transition/turnover as they prepare for the next world cup (there's also the regional tourneys in two years, Europe's always a blast).
Oops... the other thread is already called the World Soccer Thread eh.. just keep it the World Cup thread
Yeah I'm not into club soccer because there are too many leagues to follow.
Man, I thought Brasil would at least get their respect back today. Not happening.
they showed some film were di maria was kicking with messi a little bit, but no sprints or anything, so we will see what happens, very risky if he should play from the start, could lose a sub spot very quick
Not going to matter. Germany is going to role Argentina.
Fußball-Bundesliga. Or La Liga. Easiest to follow would be the English Premier League though. Whatever the MLS is doing can barely be considered soccer,
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Well, my top four worked out (Germany, Holland, Argentina and Brasil). Too bad Brasil lost Neymar and collapsed.
I still think Germany is the best team, but that Argentina will win the cup.
How do you figure this?
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Di Maria is not playing, Germany with the same team from the semi final
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wonder if we catch Low eating his boogers today
Germany 3-1 I'll say.
Last World Cup match on ESPN/ABC for some time. FOX takes over with the 2015 Women's World Cup in Canada through the 2022 World Cup in Qatar(or hopefully USA/Japan/Australia). Hope FOX steps up with the coverage, ABC/ESPN has done a great job.
Khedira is out with a calf injury during warmups.....wow, christoph kramer is the guy now i think he played like 15 minutes so far....young bright talent, but lots of pressure on him now
MLS has really improved, it's really good.