1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

theist-atheist scale - where are you?

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by crunk-colt, Aug 7, 2009.

is there a God?

  1. 1.0: There is a God with 100% certainty.

    24 vote(s)
    35.3%
  2. 2.0: Very high probability but short of 100% .

    3 vote(s)
    4.4%
  3. 3.0: Higher than 50% but not very high. Agnostic leaning towards a God.

    9 vote(s)
    13.2%
  4. 4.0: Exactly 50%. Completely impartial agnostic.

    4 vote(s)
    5.9%
  5. 5.0: Lower than 50% but not very low. Agnostic leaning towards no God.

    9 vote(s)
    13.2%
  6. 6.0: Very low probability but short of 0%.

    7 vote(s)
    10.3%
  7. 7.0: There is no God with 100% certainty.

    12 vote(s)
    17.6%
  1. crunk-colt

    crunk-colt New Member

    28
    20
    0
    Aug 7, 2009
    i know this is odd to be my first post, especially since i'm a Colts fan.. i'm joining the boards of every team we play this year so i can talk about the game each week of the season with opposing fans. i saw this section and considering this is one of my favorite topics, i thought i would make a thread to see where everyone is on the scale. anyway..

    i am in between 6 and 7, close to 7. i can say without a reasonable doubt that there is no God, but i suppose i can't "know" for certain. a small case can be made for the deist God, but there isnt a shred of evidence for anything more than that.

    so, where are you on the scale? why?

    (scale taken from Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion)
     
    Boik14, Celtkin, Two Tacos and 2 others like this.
  2. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    I will have to check that book out.

    I enjoy talking about spirituality or the lackthereof.

    Recently I have been questioning it. I voted 5.0. I'm what is considered a "weak atheist" in that I believe that knowing for a fact that there is a god is not certain but that I don't try and push that viewpoint on others.

    I'm agnostic right now but lean towards a taoist/buddhist preference when talking about spirituality.

    As a colts fan you're cool until we play ya.. :up:

    Welcome aboard
     
    Stringer Bell and crunk-colt like this.
  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    35,070
    25,540
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    God as in energy and consciousness or God as in big guy sitting on clouds?
     
  4. crunk-colt

    crunk-colt New Member

    28
    20
    0
    Aug 7, 2009
    any God you want. :)

    and thanks for the welcome anlgp. keep questioning ;)
     
  5. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

    12,963
    7,268
    113
    Dec 7, 2007
    Las Vegas
    I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us.
    -John Lennon
     
  6. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Yes as in proof positive there is God, not a God, but God.

    Why? Many reasons but most of all I don't believe in something this grand happening by chance. If you do then, by all means, play the lottery twice every day and maybe one day you'll get lucky.:wink2:

    Sorry I forgot my manners; Welcome to the board crunk-colt.:up:
     
    Themole likes this.
  7. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Welcome aboard! As you can see from the badges, I'm the "chaplain" around here so as you may suspect I am one of the "1" votes. My day job is as senior pastor of a large Lutheran congregation in NW Ohio. I have had a sense of God my whole life. I have asked the questions about the existence of a deity but have always dismissed them. Not in an evangelical zeal, but because in my gut I have always experienced God.

    Hope you enjoy your time visiting here, it is a congenial place. Keep your feet off the furniture, clean up after yourself, and buy a round for the regulars occasionally and you will get along fine!
     
  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    35,070
    25,540
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    It is hard to choose I am torn between 1, 4, and 7. They all feel equally true.
     
  9. emeraldfin

    emeraldfin All I've got is insane

    1,320
    379
    0
    Dec 12, 2007
    Carlow, Ireland
    I put myself as 5, as I struggle with the concept of God.

    I would ideally be voting 1, as I admire peoples faith in a higher power.
     
  10. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

    20,467
    14,230
    113
    Apr 2, 2008
    Coral Springs, FL
    Im at 6. I don't believe in God, but I believe everything has an origin. For example, the gasses and elements in the universe had to come from somewhere. Was this a God? I don't believe so, but there are still many questions I have that will remain unanswered.

    Although, one thing I've always found interesting, why has every culture on Earth believed in a God(s)? Even certain indigenous tribes and civilizations who never came into contact with other peoples believed in something.

    Is it just human nature to believe in a high power? This is probably the biggest question I have.
     
    Boik14 likes this.
  11. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,464
    9,905
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    Welcome!


    My answer is:

    My God is my God and I will always have him with me!

    My personal God may be viewed by outsiders as a religion of one, perhaps that is becoming more and more the norm vs structured religions of the world. I dont follow anyone of those to the letter in any aspect of it, but I follow my religion and my God has showed me the way.

     
    calphin, Themole and gafinfan like this.
  12. crunk-colt

    crunk-colt New Member

    28
    20
    0
    Aug 7, 2009
    thanks for the welcome all. i am going to give my point of view in a hopefully non-confrontational sort of way.

    what are you referring to specifically? the creation of the universe itself, or the existance of humans? my thought is that it doesnt matter how unlikely something is.. because here we are! :)

    i try not to let "feelings" get in the way of my rational thinking. i choose to rely on observable evidence and not my gut.

    i am glad that they find happiness through it, but i do not admire it.

    those are valid questions which i have thought extensively about as well. as for the origin of "everything", i just accept that we dont know yet. we have strong theories but we just can't be sure yet... we're working on in though. :)

    as for the tribes and human nature question... yes, i do think it is some sort of human nature to believe in higher powers. the world around us is very difficult to understand, especially before the times of sophisticated science. when we have no idea what that big bright thing in the sky is, we tend to attribute to some sort of "Sun God" or "Bringer of the Light". we might even make sacrifices to it to make sure it will come back again the next day.. this is just how we humans work. we have a natural urge to personify and worship, it seems.
     
  13. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Season Ticket Holder

    2,127
    1,212
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Eglin AFB, Fl
    7.0
     
  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    35,070
    25,540
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    There is no observational evidence of whether or not there is a god. It is beyond an aspect of rational thinking as beliving in a god is irrational and not believing in a god is also irrational.

    Being rational would be not having the discussion.

    Also to discount "feelings" is to stagnate rational thinking. Some of our best minds used their feelings and guts such as Einstien and Tesla.
     
  15. crunk-colt

    crunk-colt New Member

    28
    20
    0
    Aug 7, 2009

    i don't agree with that.. we don't need evidence to discredit something. to say it is irrational to not believe in God is like saying it is irrational to not believe in invisible pink unicorns. however, you DO need evidence to be rational and prove a positive. "feelings" need to be backed by evidence if you are to lend them any merit.
     
  16. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    35,070
    25,540
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    How is it rational to say there aren't any invisible pink unicorns? How is that more rational that saying there isn't dark matter or neutrinos?

    You do need evidence to discredit something if you want to do it rationally. If you do not have evidence it is no difference than saying the earth is not round and that germs do not exist.

    Feelings do need to be backed by evidence if you want to give a science lecture to a bunch of scientists. If you want to get things done and discover new things, to discount your feelings is to discount one of the amazing advantages to being human.
     
  17. crunk-colt

    crunk-colt New Member

    28
    20
    0
    Aug 7, 2009
    because there is evidence for the latter two..

    if i take you to court and claim that you stole a million dollars from me and demand you give it back, the onus is on me to provide the evidence. if i don't provide any evidence, you won't have to provide anything to discredit my claim. the one making the positive claim is the one who needs to provide the evidence, not the other way around.

    how can a feeling possibly be more beneficial or accurate than a rational deduction in consideration of evidence?
     
  18. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,578
    15,020
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Raccoon City
    Welcome to the board Crunk.
    Hope your stay is lengthy.:up:
     
  19. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Rationality is not all that it is cracked up to be. When I deal with parents who have lost a child or people "pulling the plug" on a loved one rationality is simply cruel.

    For me proof of the existence of God is like proof of the existence of love, I see it with my heart as much as with my eyes or ears. All are in play.

    Certainly some religious systems over the course of time have failed in retrospect the rationality test. I do not dismiss reason. In my understanding reason is a gift from God. But reason is not everything.

    For those of you who do not believe in God, I wish you well, I hope you continue your inquiry as I continue mine.
     
    dolphindebby and gafinfan like this.
  20. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,189
    30,872
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I didn't answer the poll b/c while I would characterize my belief in God as certain, my God is not the one I learned about in church. I believe in a spiritual connection between all living things. I believe there is a universal knowledge, a basic understanding of right and wrong and that there's a guiding hand and things we are supposed to learn and do. I do not believe in a jealous, judgmental grandfather figure who favors some group or groups over others.
     
    DaFish likes this.
  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    35,070
    25,540
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Now there is, however at one time they were invisible pink unicorns.


    That is true, however money is a solid object that one can prove exists or does not exist. If you did make this claim, we can actually do solid study and actually figure it out. Thus making it a rational situation.

    A rational court wouldn't take a case about the existence of God because there is no proof that God does exist or he does not exist. The conversation right now is irrational. It is irrational be have a certain belief of either one.

    If it wasn't for feeling we would have E=Mc2.

    It is something to work in conjunction. To deny your feeling and intuition, you deny a part of yourself that is greatly beneficial. It isn't is one better than the other, it is how you use them.

    If you become proficient in the feeling aspect of yourself you do access the more powerful unconscious mind while rationality is more of the conscious mind.
     
    adamprez2003 likes this.
  22. crunk-colt

    crunk-colt New Member

    28
    20
    0
    Aug 7, 2009
    just because something is cruel doesnt make it untrue.

    i think the existence of love is proof for the existance of love (and emotion), which is the product of evolution. aren't i so cynical ;)

    there are tons of "IPUs" that exist that we havent discovered yet.. but that doesnt mean any wild guess has credibility.


    something with no evidence isnt something you should be 50/50 on.. that just isnt how it works. this seems to be something we will never see eye-to-eye on.

    you can use your "feelings" in poker, relationships, etc.. but if youre going to say with 100% certainty that there is a God, i think you need evidence to back it up. it is possible that i misunderstood what you were saying.
     
  23. crunk-colt

    crunk-colt New Member

    28
    20
    0
    Aug 7, 2009
    that's an interesting view. how did you come to this conclusion?
     
  24. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

    37,402
    14,760
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    new york ciity
    not true. there are countless stories of individuals who have supposedly seen or talked or felt God. Whether we choose to believe them is up to each of us
     
  25. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

    37,402
    14,760
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    new york ciity
    i believe in a creator of the universe and a creator of man. i am unsure that the two are the same however
     
    Boik14 likes this.
  26. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

    20,403
    39,953
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Newburgh, NY
    What you believe is by no stretch of the imagination "proof positive" bro.

    I believe the Dolphins will win the super bowl this year. Doesn't mean it's proof that they will.

    This is the main beef I have with religion...the stating of one's faith as "fact" or "truth".

    There is no shred of hard physical evidence at all to ANY of our God's or Goddess' existence. There is only speculation, hope, and coincidence. That is why it's called faith.

    And I didn't answer the poll because because it focused too much on *A* God. There are many who believe there's more than one.
     
    gunn34 and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  27. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,189
    30,872
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    Over the years I've studied various religions and have come to believe that they have some very basic similarities. I think those similarities are the fundamental "truths". Those 'truths' are then explained through stories to audiences of limited understanding. I think the religions we see now are products of those stories taken as fact. They focus on the specifics instead of the points they were trying to illustrate.

    Science is just another tool, like those stories to help us understand the universe and ourselves. The example I've given before is about my son (at the age of 4) asking me where he came from. He was not very sophisticated in his understanding of procreation at that point (obviously) so I told him that his mom and I loved each other very much and we wanted to make a baby. I don't feel I lied to him but I also wasn't very specific. I expect that as he grows he will continue to learn more about the process. I don't expect him to take a transcript of my explanation to him at age 4 and use it to claim that intercourse doesn't exist b/c I didn't mention it then.

    I think religion fails when it looks at science as a challenge to those specifics instead of seeing it as expanding our understanding of the mechanics of the universe.

    I think science fails when it sees something it can't explain and concludes that it therefore can't be true. Our knowledge has expanded greatly over the last 400 years or so but it is a drop in the bucket compared to what we don't understand. It falls into the same trap of arguing the specifics of the stories and ignoring the points that were being illustrated.

    If you look at something like Buddhism, it is basically the product of thousands of years of study in the field of human psychology. Many of the things accomplished during meditation are supposedly not possible within our current scientific understanding. I look at the works of Carl Jung and I see evidence of a universal mind in universal archetypes. There are various other examples, but the point is that I believe that there is more to the universe than what science can currently explain.

    This some what off topic but if you ever get a chance I recommend a book titled "The Holographic Universe". It provides a single scientific hypothesis for the construction of the universe which seems to resolve the black hole information paradox within string theory but further (as it relates to the topic at hand) it also explains things currently considered paranormal like near death experiences and religious stigmata.
     
  28. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    It is to me and I didn't say it to prove it to any one else. There are several reasons for my belief, as I have stated in this forum several times before, and those facts only reinforce my belief.

    I don't question why you feel as you do so why does it bother you (if I'm reading your reply right) that I'm so positive about how or why I feel as I do? I'm not trying to win any converts I'm only stating my beliefs as I know them to be.

    Life itself, how all things came about, I'm not about organized religion or taking the Bible literally for talking points to prove or disprove anything neither will I speak for anyothers belief system or will I judge what they do or do not believe. The Universe is governed by laws and everything happens for a reason, nothing just "happens by chance" IMHO and the proof of that is as you said ...... we are here. Beautiful!:wink2:
     
    calphin and Themole like this.
  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    35,070
    25,540
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Since we cannot have another person's experience their stories are just that stories.

    There is nothing that we can put in a study and figure out if there is or isn't a god.
     
  30. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

    8,917
    8,780
    113
    Jan 8, 2008
    Springfield, Ill.
    Welcome, CC!

    I meant to click 1.0, but clicked 2.0, so there you go.
     
  31. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    15,818
    6,072
    113
    Dec 12, 2007
    Evans, GA
    I went with 3, I think it's pretty likely there's something going on. What I doubt is that anybody here with us now knows exactly what's going on like so many think they do.
     
    Themole likes this.
  32. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

    20,403
    39,953
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Newburgh, NY
    You might not have said it to prove to anyone bro, but let's take a look at what you DID say:

    What you said is that there is "proof positive". NOT "it is to me". Also, by saying "not a God, but God" you are dismissing any and all other Gods or Goddesses that any others might believe in.

    Can you not see that?

    You don't question why I feel as I do my brother, because I don't give you any reason to.

    I never post that I feel my beliefs are "fact" or that I have "proof positive". In fact, I don't post ANY of my beliefs in here. I don't post that I have proof because I don't...and neither do you.

    That is not dismissing your faith in any way shape or form. It's just the truth. If there were "proof positive" to your beliefs, then EVERYONE would know this "proof" and we'd all believe the same thing.

    I used to get into this discussion with D7 all the time when he'd call his beliefs "fact" and "truth" and dismiss other beliefs.

    I know you didn't do this intentionally, I'm just pointing out how your original statement sounds.

    Had you said "it's my belief that my God exists", then bravo. Everyone needs their faith.

    You didn't say that. You said there's "proof" that YOUR God exists....not "a" God....YOUR God. It doesn't bother me, but I will point out when something like that is stated, and I'll always counter it.

    If you DO have proof, I'd like to see it...BUT...as I used to state to D7....NOT from Christian websites.

    They do kind of have a bias, you know. :wink2:
     
    dolphindebby and gafinfan like this.
  33. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    The original question put to everyone here was "Why do you believe the way you do?" Was it not? I felt it unnecessary to say "to me" as the question was put to each person taking the poll but if you were just asking for clarification you got it with my reply to you. So NO I don't see it that way because I don't judge how or why anyone else feels.

    It matters not to me how or in what way you present your beliefs, I don't question them because I take what you say at its face value that you believe it to be true "FOR YOU" otherwise you would be a hyprocrite to what you say and I will not judge others therefore what you believe is right for you to believe it. It is "in fact" your truth and I'm fine with that. You could use any wording you want to and it would not change how I feel about your beliefs for you.

    Your last statement to me says it all IMHO that you are Judging me by first asking to "SEE" my proof (it may not be seeable) and then qualifying it by stating "not from christian websites as they have a kind of bias .... you know:wink2:" :lol: We all have bias my friend:lol: What is a truth to you may not be that to me where beliefs are concerned.

    I will give you an example if you don't mind. My late Uncle Willie, who I've brought up here many times may he RIP, believed that we DID NOT go to the moon. His belief until the day he died was that those pictures were shot in Ar. and nothing anyone said or showed him would change that belief. So even if I could or would show you "proof positive" (in my mind) you would not take it as "your proof" because by your own admission you are biased and believe as you do. All of which is fine with me cause I still love you just the same and treasure you as a friend even though we've not met in person. You see my proof of that is the vibes I get from your post and thats all I need. :up::up:

    BTW just who is D7?:shifty: He doesn't sound like me at all because first of all I've not dismissed anyone beliefs here; to do so IMHO would be to JUDGE them and I'll do my best not to do that ever. Have a good one.:wink2:
     
  34. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

    20,403
    39,953
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Newburgh, NY
    Which is why I said I know you didn't do it intentionally. :wink2:

    Ah...but that's where we differ. I never have - and never will - say that my beliefs are "truth", even to me. I have faith that they are. However, I...like everyone else...have no proof.

    The proof will come in the afterlife.

    No, ga...I am not judging you. I'm asking to see the proof, that's all. If you had said "I have proof positive that Pennington's going to throw for 40 TDs this year" I'd ask you to show me that too. Not judging, just asking to see the "proof" of your "proof". If proof is not "seeable", then it certainly isn't proof. It's like I said before...hope, belief, and speculation.

    Proof is only something that CAN be seen, otherwise it can be interpreted any way the "viewer" wants it to be.

    When one makes a bold statement like that, you don't think people will question???

    Again...if you were able to show me tangible proof, I would be interested. My mind is quite open, GA.

    As for Christian sites being biased, of course we ALL have biases...but you must admit, in the face of the fact that Christianity is pretty much the only religion that is actively trying to convert the world, putting false proofs on their sites to back up their cause isn't too far fetched.

    "Proof" of that was an old Christian website that isn't around any longer that actually said that Tyrannosaurus Rex was a vegetarian, and therefore could live amongst men.

    Or maybe the Holy Land Experience in Orlando that has dioramas of children playing with baby T-Rex's and raptors, even though there's mountains of scientific evidence that this never happened.

    WAY biased bro.

    Dolphan 7 was an über-Christian and a member of what once was known as the "God Squad" on the old site. He would make outrageous claims like the earth was only 6,000 years old, dinosaurs lived amongst men, etc. etc. He would constantly tell me that my Goddess was either the Christian God presenting himself to me in a way that I'd accept...or the devil in disguise.

    But he too would say that his way was "truth" and "fact". I always questioned him to see his facts...but he never to this day ever showed any.

    Like I said, not disrespecting or judging you in any way...but brother, if you do say you have "proof positive", I will ask.

    That's just my curiosity. :)
     
    calphin, dolphindebby and gafinfan like this.
  35. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Fair enough.

    Plus I have to say if he tried to tangle with you I truly feel sorry for him.:wink2::up:

    BTW are you serious?

    Of course I believe you but that just blows my mind, on several levels.

    Again thanks.
     
  36. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

    8,917
    8,780
    113
    Jan 8, 2008
    Springfield, Ill.
    I liked all of this post except the last paragraph. I've looked into "The Holographic Universe" and find Talbot's theory that the universe is a hologram to be ... well ... as crazy as some of my atheist friends think the idea of a Supreme Being is. :shifty:
     
  37. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

    14,752
    4,873
    0
    Nov 26, 2007
    GA
    I answered #1 because that's what I believe.
    As to why, I can't explain it all, I just believe.
    Nor, will I try to defend what I believe.

    I'm with you GA I would have loved to have read some of pagans replys to the guy over there. I can only imagine how it went.
    pagan is my friend, I don't question his reasons, nor, does he question ours in a bad way. I care a lot for pagan and his right to believe what ever he chooses. Just as I care for every one here.
    I personally don't care what race, religion etc. anyone is. If they treat me fairly, I will respond in kind. If not, I'll just try to ignore them. That to me is what matters here or anywhere.


    Oh, by the way-welcome to the best site anywhere, bar none!
    You sure started off with a bang. :up:
     
    sking29, Themole, Den54 and 2 others like this.
  38. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

    20,403
    39,953
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Newburgh, NY
    I wish I wasn't bro. I watched that movie "Religulous" and they actually showed the thing.

    Except I must correct myself. It wasn't the Holy Land Experience. It was the Creationist Museum.

    And to show I'm not kidding...here's a pic from said museum.

    Boggles the mind how people can willingly pass off misinformation to further an agenda. :pity:


    [​IMG]
     
    Fin D and gafinfan like this.
  39. crunk-colt

    crunk-colt New Member

    28
    20
    0
    Aug 7, 2009
    i don't give credit to illiterate, bronze age humans who had virtually no real understanding of the world or universe. many aspects of religions are likely plagiarized from others anyway,

    i think you are way off here.. that isn't what science is like at all.

    i think you had a very nice post but i disagree with those two points.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    35,070
    25,540
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Most of our understanding of the universe are still best guesses. It wasn't until 1998 when we learned that the universe was actually expanding at an accelerated rate.

    One of my favorite shows is The Universe and over half of it is pretty much explaining, "We do not know why this is, however here is our best guess."

    there are a lot of aspects of science that are like this. It is mostly due to the human factor when it comes to science.
     
    BigDogsHunt likes this.

Share This Page