There's 10 other guys on offense besides a QB. Time to blame the FO for it's choices.

"djphinfan wrote:

he can make throws TP because he has a wonderful arm, however, I ask you in all seriousness, do you want to move forward in offensive philosophy with a player that has 0 escapability talent, limited skill improvisationally both mentally, and physically, bottom line, do you want to move forward offensively with a player that can only execute from a perfect pocket?

It was an excellent post and thread because it makes me think even harder about my own analysis and breakdown...but my conclusions are that I do want a QB that can do the things that I mention, which are things that Henne cannot, its important for my own personal vision for the right offense.

I agree with you Deej. I would prefer to have a QB with all those wonderful attributes. However finding one is easier said than done as I'm sure you'll agree. The NFL goes through dozens of QB in the draft (sometimes for years) before a guy like that comes along. I'm willing to wait for Henne to hopefully finish developing, b/c the grass might not be greener and could leave us despising not giving Chad his due shot. I'm laying my hopes on the belief that Henne can be at least a quality game manager like Aikman whom we can win a SB with. IMO it could be a lot worse.

I don't think he's as cement footed as we initially thought. He showed better awareness and ability to leave the pocket to pick up a critical first down if needed, and I think that's a huge positive...... and that's all I expect from my QB. Major mobility is an added bonus for me.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

I agree with you Deej. I would prefer to have a QB with all those wonderful attributes. However finding one is easier said than done as I'm sure you'll agree. The NFL goes through dozens of QB in the draft (sometimes for years) before a guy like that comes along. I'm willing to wait for Henne to hopefully finish developing, b/c the grass might not be greener and could leave us despising not giving Chad his due shot. I'm laying my hopes on the belief that Henne can be at least a quality game manager like Aikman whom we can win a SB with. IMO it could be a lot worse.

I don't think he's as cement footed as we initially thought. He showed better awareness and ability to leave the pocket to pick up a critical first down if needed, and I think that's a huge positive...... and that's all I expect from my QB. Major mobility is an added bonus for me.

That's my take as of today.

I think increase youth and speed on O, and new OC, can finish shinning up our guy......thats a realistic 4 year plan since 1-15. I am not opposed to seeing this new OC and new Oside drafted Speed succeed or fail all on Henne's shoulder. I will cut all ties if Henne cant change and improve following 2011 season.

I am also not willing to shy from saying Henne played a horrific game yesterday, and it didnt make me feel happy he played that way.

"Zod wrote:

What pedestal? I have not started one thread about anyones performance from yesterday. I'm not the one deflecting attention from WHAT REALLY HAPPENED in the game yesterday. Go look in the nearest mirror. You are the one with the holier than thou posts in the past 24 hours. You are the one trying to educate us about how poor our entire roster, front office, and coaching staff have been. Geez! You have reduced yourself to attacking someones avatar! An avatar?

No, you pulled up some of the greatest names in the sport. Then you pointed to how they had nothing and then had something. Could it possibly be that the "greats" were not that good. No, no.. It couldn't possibly be that they played poorly and made the people around them look bad. That could not be the case even though if you ask each one of them (that you listed) to a man they would say that THEY had to learn the game. THEY had to go through the bumps and bruises.

I have said NOTHING about the potential for Chad Henne to become a star. What I have said is that YOU throw mud on everyone within the organization to deflect attention from the poor play of Chad Henne. THAT IS FACT. It cannot be denied.

Me, I'm looking at the year 2003. It's the year that "Marty Ball" was becoming foul language in San Diego. The record of his budding star? 2-9 as a starter. He threw for 11 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. I'm fairly certain that there was more than a few scmuck Chargers fans that cursed the day Marty Schottenheimer was hired from the very day that he was hired. Just as there are those here that are cursing the day that this regime brought Dan Henning back out of retirement. The fact is that it is YOUR GUY that is inconsistent. It is YOUR GUY that can't put the team on his back. It is YOUR GUY that has not won a game in the fourth quarter in 2010. But you want to burn the house around him just to save him.

Pedestal? People in glass houses should not throw stones.

How I feel is how I feel. Don't try and twist my words around to make it seem like I'm scapegoating everyone else in order to salvage Henne. NOT THE CASE. What I write is what I believe. If you have a problem with what I believe, then fair enough---- I'd be glad to debate it with you..... but don't insult me by saying all the efforts I put into my posts are merely a diversion b/c of a love fest for Henne.

And yes, I said pedestal.... numerous times you attempt to throw around your football knowledge in an attempt to seem superior to others. It "appears" that you savor trying to prove people wrong publicly solely for the pleasure of it or as an attempt to "exert dominance"..... hence me referencing your avatar "Ruler of the Universe" which seems to coincide with what I'm referring to.

What I find ironic is that you seem to feel the same way about Henne that I do...... however b/c I don't feel the same way about the team, FO, Coaching as you do, that I MUST have a hidden agenda.

Sorry, but I do feel that our FO (Ireland, Sparano, Henning) are responsible for how this offense presently sits. I blame them for hiring Henning in the first place despite being fired just about everywhere he goes. I blame them for bringing in expensive FA Olinemen with histories of injury when there were other options (IE: Jason Brown for a few million more). I blame them for thinking Pat White would be an immediate impact to our offense. I blame them for drafting 2 possession WRs in an 09 draft that was full of playmakers. I blame them for NOT placing any emphasis on a complimentary TE. I blame them for letting go 2 veteran receivers and replacing them with 2 rookie FAs. I blame them for the freakin practice bell (b/c as a psych guy, I know first and foremost you're classically conditioning a QB to rush plays rather than allowing his instincts to take over. I blame them for allowing Henning to keep the same playbook despite Henne taking over last year and knowing he'd be the guy this year. I blame them for the ridiculous conservatism. I blame them for having a horrendous play-action offense as a TEAM. I blame them for allowing all these ridiculous playaction calls that are clearly & statistically hindering Henne. I blame them for resorting to a WC scheme that has a short half life and is pretty ineffective against great defenses (IE: how has it benefited us in the long run vs taking away time spent on building a traditional ground game?).

I blame our Oline (even if it's not directly their fault) for not being good enough to offer a strong attack and keep defenses honest and guessing. I blame our running back position for not being very explosive or offering a true threat in the passing game. I blame the TE position for only having 1 guy with no seam buster to help draw coverage and open the field. I blame our WR position for being extremely inexperienced and inconsistent (especially when Marshall is out... and even more especially when Marshall and Hart are both on the sidelines). I blame our WR position for not having a vertical threat that forces defenses to cover the entire field. I also blame our QB position for not being experienced enough to get us through these tough times and help make up for the rest of the offense's deficiencies.

Even though I blame the QB position, I understand that Henne's develpment will take time.... and I can either deal with these early ups and downs or I can watch a revolving door of washed up vet QBs hoping that a career is rekindled here. I'll put my money on Henne for now. I won't put my money on Wallace or Moore to develop though..... and I won't put my money on Hartline to be a legitimate #2. I won't put money on Ricky or Ronnie to turn back time and regain their explosiveness or great COP back. I won't put money on Fasano becoming a seam busting TE...... nor will I put money on Hartline becoming the teams consistent, reliable vertical threat. When these are addressed, then I'll believe Henne deserves FULL criticism for poor performances.

I find it amusing that just a week ago Henne throws for 300+ yards, 2 TDs, and 1 INT aginst an Oakland team that Rivers throws for 280 yards, 1 TD, and 1 INT in a loss against yesterday.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

I find it amusing that just a week ago Henne throws for 300+ yards, 2 TDs, and 1 INT aginst an Oakland team that Rivers throws for 280 yards, 1 TD, and 1 INT in a loss against yesterday.

Jimmy Clausen v. Cleveland last week

16-28, 195 yards, 0 TD's 0 INTS. Team scored 23 points. Managed to not kill his team with 3 interceptions. You can do this kind of thing with every game. I brought up Fitzpatrick v. Henne against the Ravens and I was told by you amongst others that such a comparison wasn't valid.

I'd like to point out that marino's QB rating was in the high 70's over his last three seasons with the Fins... IMO, because the supporting case was not very good, not because Marino was all of a sudden a bad QB.

"mroz wrote:

I'd like to point out that marino's QB rating was in the high 70's over his last three seasons with the Fins... IMO, because the supporting case was not very good, not because Marino was all of a sudden a bad QB.

I think people overlook a mediocre rating when you've broken every passing record in the books. I don't see how anybody can say with any certainty that Henne will become a good QB in the NFL. That is a bigger mystery than ever at this point. I guess if blaming everything else makes everybody feel better more power to you.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

I find it amusing that just a week ago Henne throws for 300+ yards, 2 TDs, and 1 INT aginst an Oakland team that Rivers throws for 280 yards, 1 TD, and 1 INT in a loss against yesterday.

I find that inconsistency frustrating. I'm not sure how you think it's funny. Rivers has already proven he's an NFL quarterback. A very good one. And notice on his 'bad' day he still didn't throw more picks than TDs.

"muscle979 wrote:

I think people overlook a mediocre rating when you've broken every passing record in the books. I don't see how anybody can say with any certainty that Henne will become a good QB in the NFL. That is a bigger mystery than ever at this point. I guess if blaming everything else makes everybody feel better more power to you.

I don't think I've seen anyone proclaim that Henne will be "good" or "great" or "elite". However, I have seen many people say that he won't be. If you think there is no way to tell if he's going to be the first three, how can they know he's going not to be?

Kind of a double standard, huh?

"ToddsPhins wrote:

How I feel is how I feel. Don't try and twist my words around to make it seem like I'm scapegoating everyone else in order to salvage Henne. NOT THE CASE. What I write is what I believe. If you have a problem with what I believe, then fair enough---- I'd be glad to debate it with you..... but don't insult me by saying all the efforts I put into my posts are merely a diversion b/c of a love fest for Henne.

And yes, I said pedestal.... numerous times you attempt to throw around your football knowledge in an attempt to seem superior to others. It "appears" that you savor trying to prove people wrong publicly solely for the pleasure of it or as an attempt to "exert dominance"..... hence me referencing your avatar "Ruler of the Universe" which seems to coincide with what I'm referring to.

No, I wasn't describing an attack of my avatar. That was a couple of weeks ago and to be honest, I didn't even remember that it was you. You must have a thing for avatars because it was 'patsyland's avatar that you referenced in THIS thread.

So since you have a thing for avatars and monikers, I'll explain mine. I signed up for Finheaven back before time began as 72phins or 72dolphins or something like that. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that most things phins was a bad idea if you ever wanted to know who was talking to who. So shortly after I signed up I was sitting at the desk thinking I needed to change it. Superman was on the boob tube in the background. Thus you have "Zod". It was as simple as that. Sorry if I offend you with the "Ruler of the Universe" label under it. I think it's better than rookie or veteran that the website generates.

Contrary to your apology, I will not apologize for being thorough with my posts. YOU may know what I'm refering to in a given post. If so, the post probably was not for you. Or at least the detail in the post was not for you. But you will not see me apologize for saying something I know is right and taking it one step further by providing a source or sources that it originated. I do not think that is what the site is for. If you think the site is NOT for any educational purpose, I would suggest you take a further look at some of the posts around here.

If I see some baboon on here spouting off a bunch of crap, I don't hesitate to call them out. Why? I like this forum. Most of the people on this forum are very good conversation. But within every crowd, there is a moron. Even I find myself to be a moron some of the time during gameday threads. I indulge in that one luxury because it's not like anyone is spending any amount of time on their posts anyway. It's like tweets-quick hits that usually mean nothing. But if the poster/thread starter of crap needs to be called out - I'll be their huckleberry. No, it's not my job to police the site and I don't attempt to. Otherwise I would be a moderator or I would simply say, "You are a moron." But I do not do that.

Do I say some things that that may infer "you are a moron." Maybe, I don't know. I try to get your attention. Otherwise I would not bother posting. I don't know why anyone would post anything irrelevant. So if you are not posting anything irrelevant, are YOU not trying to get someone's attention?

I've done nothing in my posts that I have not done in person. I will sit down and rewind video ALL DAY with someone who will listen. If you have listened, I hope you have learned something. If you have not learned something and you do not like my demeanor - you should have me on ignore. I have someone on ignore IN THIS THREAD.

Just know this...... I ain't contributing to this site becoming a Finheaven and I don't want a bunch of morons that do contribute to it in that way. Silence only allows the moronic behavior to escalate. That's been my experience. You can go hide in "club". I'll stay right here and debate facts. When I have to hide, I'll just leave.

Here's my issue with your argument, Todd.

First, you claim that Henne was bad and you don't want to chastise him, yet you've done nothing but find other reasons on why it's not his fault. I mean every single throw, every single player, every single move, everything you have a blame for and criticized other than Chad Henne.

I'm a Henne fan, and I want him to be the guy. Truthfully, I don't know if there are many other options right now so we've got to develop him. But, I'm not going to turn my blind eye to the fact he played HORRIBLY yesterday. He was flat out HORRIBLE.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81ca54e7/Haden-INT

I just want to hit on the deep ball one last time. First, my stance is that in no way is that Brian Hartline's fault and in every way it's Chad Henne's. The guy is wide open. You talk about Rogers in his face, you talk about the length of the throw. Why didn't he get the ball out earlier? Why wasn't he looking at him to begin with? You talk about how you're OK with the interceptions so long as he's being aggressive. Why wasn't he looking to Brian Hartline on a big play from the onset? Brian Hartline had him beat by four yards, 12 yards into the route. This was an instance, where it wasn't zone, it was single high coverage. He had exactly what he wanted. Henning got exactly what he wanted when he called the play, but Henne didn't pull the trigger. Even when he did, even when he waited until he was so wide, he didn't get him the ball.

I mean watch the play. He's staring at him the ENTIRE time. Why did wait to release the ball for so long? He had him beat early then kept that seperation. BTW, he stepped right into the darn throw, so don't tell me was unable to. Look at that throwing motion to every other throw he had and don't try to tell me in any way he was impeded by Shaun Rogers. There is no difference. So. He throws the ball from about the 18 yard line and it travels to the opponents 40 yard line. That is a 42 yd throw and with the throwing it to the sideline from the right hash adds 10 yards as you say, it's a 52 yd throw. You're telling me a QB can't make that?

You brought up Chad Pennington in a different thread, for some reason I have no understanding of, but since you did--look at him in 2008 and tell me he couldn't make that throw even with a bum shoulder. If that guy can throw it, so can Henne with a much better arm. It's about ACCURACY. And don't shove these 62% completion percentage stats down my throat. I get it. Henne isn't the worst when it comes to accuracy, but he has to be able to make those throws. Plain and simple. He should have gotten it out early, but he didn't. Lucky for him he still had ample protection and Hartline still created the separation, but instead he botched the throw. He did it in Buffalo too and he's done it time and time again. He has accuracy issues on deep balls.

Make all the comparisons you want, but none of them matter. He's got to improve and he's got to be better. He has weapons, more weapons than say a guy like Sam Bradford and other QBs have, but they're making the most of them. There is no doubt he's having some real confidence issues right now, whether he wants to admit that or not. There is no doubt the team is having some real confidence issues with him right now also whether they want to admit it or not--teammates and personnel.

Another issue is you talk about all the posters bashing Henne after a bad game and where were they when he did well, like in Oakland last week. The same can be said for your indictment on the WRs. They were able to get open against man coverage on what's considered a pretty darn good Oakland secondary. Hartline and Bess consistently found ways to get open, even against Nmandi. Now, they face zone coverage where all they are expected to a hole, which Bess is one of the best at, and now they're garbage and he has no weapons. I'll give you it's tough to be successful when Hartline is out in the 2nd half. What about the 1st half though? That's where he stunk the most. I don't understand how you bash every OTHER player besides the QB, every OTHER personnel person other than the player, when it's pretty clear, cut and dry that he needs to be better.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

What I find ironic is that you seem to feel the same way about Henne that I do...... however b/c I don't feel the same way about the team, FO, Coaching as you do, that I MUST have a hidden agenda.

Sorry, but I do feel that our FO (Ireland, Sparano, Henning) are responsible for how this offense presently sits. I blame them for hiring Henning in the first place despite being fired just about everywhere he goes. I blame them for bringing in expensive FA Olinemen with histories of injury when there were other options (IE: Jason Brown for a few million more). I blame them for thinking Pat White would be an immediate impact to our offense. I blame them for drafting 2 possession WRs in an 09 draft that was full of playmakers. I blame them for NOT placing any emphasis on a complimentary TE. I blame them for letting go 2 veteran receivers and replacing them with 2 rookie FAs. I blame them for the freakin practice bell (b/c as a psych guy, I know first and foremost you're classically conditioning a QB to rush plays rather than allowing his instincts to take over. I blame them for allowing Henning to keep the same playbook despite Henne taking over last year and knowing he'd be the guy this year. I blame them for the ridiculous conservatism. I blame them for having a horrendous play-action offense as a TEAM. I blame them for allowing all these ridiculous playaction calls that are clearly & statistically hindering Henne. I blame them for resorting to a WC scheme that has a short half life and is pretty ineffective against great defenses (IE: how has it benefited us in the long run vs taking away time spent on building a traditional ground game?).

I blame our Oline (even if it's not directly their fault) for not being good enough to offer a strong attack and keep defenses honest and guessing. I blame our running back position for not being very explosive or offering a true threat in the passing game. I blame the TE position for only having 1 guy with no seam buster to help draw coverage and open the field. I blame our WR position for being extremely inexperienced and inconsistent (especially when Marshall is out... and even more especially when Marshall and Hart are both on the sidelines). I blame our WR position for not having a vertical threat that forces defenses to cover the entire field. I also blame our QB position for not being experienced enough to get us through these tough times and help make up for the rest of the offense's deficiencies.

Even though I blame the QB position, I understand that Henne's develpment will take time.... and I can either deal with these early ups and downs or I can watch a revolving door of washed up vet QBs hoping that a career is rekindled here. I'll put my money on Henne for now. I won't put my money on Wallace or Moore to develop though..... and I won't put my money on Hartline to be a legitimate #2. I won't put money on Ricky or Ronnie to turn back time and regain their explosiveness or great COP back. I won't put money on Fasano becoming a seam busting TE...... nor will I put money on Hartline becoming the teams consistent, reliable vertical threat. When these are addressed, then I'll believe Henne deserves FULL criticism for poor performances.

Yes, it's been established. You blame everyone but Chad Henne. A fact that provides for no merit for any of your other accusations. It's gotten so bad that you should really contemplate placing the name "Chad Henne" in the place of a person you are discussing before you say anything about anybody. At least then we will know that you actually gave THEIR circumstance two cents worth of consideration.

In response to the first post: I disagree completely about Brian Hartline. While he's no Marshall I think he's done a pretty good job. He didn't look very overmatched when he was five yards ahead of any DB yesterday sprinting towards the end zone. You can post stats all day long but saying things like that will not help your argument. Nobody is saying he's a superstar but Hartline is certainly effective. Especially against teams without top tier secondaries.

"muscle979 wrote:

In response to the first post: I disagree completely about Brian Hartline. While he's no Marshall I think he's done a pretty good job. He didn't look very overmatched when he was five yards ahead of any DB yesterday sprinting towards the end zone. You can post stats all day long but saying things like that will not help your argument. Nobody is saying he's a superstar but Hartline is certainly effective. Especially against teams without top tier secondaries.

After a VERY slow start, Brian Hartline has been very good. He's created nice YAC plays, and I've seen him consistently get open down the field this year only to be over thrown or not given an opportunity to make a play on the ball. I think he can be a nice player for us along with Marshall and Bess. I like that trio and I think this FO does too.

Honestly, as much as I want to make excuses for Henne, it was mostly his fault Sunday. He had two bonehead interceptions and wildly inaccurate passing. At the end of the day the score should have been higher, the Hartline throw was severely underthrown when if thrown perfectly or a little overthrown should have been a TD and the other one was just poor judgement.

In the offseason a few things need to happen,
Henne needs to work on Cover 2 defense.
He needs another receiver, last game finally showed me that.
He needs a second TE.
He needs to get more consistent.
He needs competition.

"rdhstlr23 wrote:

After a VERY slow start, Brian Hartline has been very good. He's created nice YAC plays, and I've seen him consistently get open down the field this year only to be over thrown or not given an opportunity to make a play on the ball. I think he can be a nice player for us along with Marshall and Bess. I like that trio and I think this FO does too.

I agree and also like Hartline, a lot. I think he's very underrated and a lot faster than people give him credit for. However, a more experienced WR would have either caught that ball, gotten the PI call, or knocked it down. There was just too much time to react and Hartline didn't.

"NFL2102 wrote:

Honestly, as much as I want to make excuses for Henne, it was mostly his fault Sunday. He had two bonehead interceptions and wildly inaccurate passing. At the end of the day the score should have been higher, the Hartline throw was severely underthrown when if thrown perfectly or a little overthrown should have been a TD and the other one was just poor judgement.

In the offseason a few things need to happen,
Henne needs to work on Cover 2 defense.
He needs another receiver, last game finally showed me that.
He needs a second TE.
He needs to get more consistent.
He needs competition.

Henne HAS to get better. He MUST be able to read coverages and understand he must ANTICIPATE he WRs opening up in them.

I think our WRs are good. Marshall, Hartline, and Bess comprise three good options. Fasano is a nice TE option. I think if Henning is still around, and I don't see anyway that is possible, we MUST get a 2nd TE. We can't continue running two TE sets and only have one option there. No David Martin or a threat like Martin is hurting us in 2010 like 2009. I think with those 3 options at WR you can continue to develop a Roberto Wallace or a Marlon Moore.

I think the biggest upgrade has to be at RB. I'd like to see us keep Ronnie Brown and pick up a RB that can catch and has that "home run" ability.

"mroz wrote:

I'd like to point out that marino's QB rating was in the high 70's over his last three seasons with the Fins... IMO, because the supporting case was not very good, not because Marino was all of a sudden a bad QB.

He was getting old and the rules were different then. The DBs could basically arse-rape the wr's down the field. Marino with these rules would have had 60 Tds.

"Zod wrote:

He is actually worse than last year. He is worse because he has learned more. How can that be? He is not throwing deep. Throwing deep into cover 2 made him unpredictable. That is why Brett Favre was so hard to defense. This year is the reverse. Chad Henne took the underneath routes versus EVERY cover 2 he faced. I have said it since the beginning of the year! He has to take shots when they are there. If not, the defense will squat on the underneath. THAT is why you see no run after the catch. It's simple math.

They have five guys that flex 5-12 yards from the line of scrimmage. The two outside guys are always looking back at the QB. They will be the players that break off to cover the underneath on the outside. The two deep have the two deep. Now if you go to the Devone Bess batted ball at the end of the game, you will notice something on the replay. There is a safety behind Devone Bess. There is only one other safety! There were two receivers on the other side of the field working against that safety. Devone Bess had nowhere to go even if he made the catch.

Now watch that replay with me:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010120501/2010/REG13/

Count the men on the defense presnap. Two safeties are not in the picture. The defender that follows the motion and subsequently bales tells me that this is man under. So it's a man under, two deep. Now go to the replay. You can see number 43 approaching Bess from the endzone angle. Why did eHenn go to Bess? On the other side a decision had to be made by the other safety. He either drived on the low route or ran with the high route. Either that or he split the two receivers running deep.

For all the critism of conservative offense, you can see that this guy CHOOSES the safe route. We saw yesterday that he is hesitant to throw it deep to a guy running WIDE OPEN. These are decisions. They are decisions made by the quarterback. For all the conservatism talk there has been this year, this guy has CHOSEN the majority of it. It's what has led to the batted balls. It's what has led to the interceptions on the underneath. It's what has led to the barrage of field goals.

Versus Cover 2 there ARE places to throw the ball. It's the deep middle and the deep sideline. We have run those routes all year. He has chosen not to throw it. It's made him a smarter quarterback but it has made this a dumb offense.

I agree with much of what you're saying but what I have a hard time swallowing is all the "missed down field opportunities". I know we've missed some, but what WRs and TEs do we have who are capable of consistently threatening the deep middle/perimeter of the field without drops etc? Not saying that sarcastically. Just making sure i'm not missing something.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

I agree with much of what you're saying but I have a hard time swallowing is all these "missed down field opportunities". I know we've missed some, but what WRs do we have who are capable of consistently getting deep to make a play without dropping it etc? Not saying that sarcastically. Just making sure i'm not missing something.

Salmon patties, grits, and green beans......

You suckers don't know what your missing. ;)

"MarinePhinFan wrote:

I agree and also like Hartline, a lot. I think he's very underrated and a lot faster than people give him credit for. However, a more experienced WR would have either caught that ball, gotten the PI call, or knocked it down. There was just too much time to react and Hartline didn't.

I just don't agree with that assessment. I mean watch the video. As soon as Hartline identifies the ball is in the air (when he looks back), he recognizes it's underthrown and makes the necessary adjustment to come back. The problem is that the ball is thrown on a line with little air underneath allowing him to "go up and get it". Also, Haden is beaten SO BADLY, that he is on a dead sprint tracking the ball. Those PI calls you're looking for those happen in two instances--where the DB can't locate the ball, whether he has him covered or doesn't. In this instance the ball isn't thrown like the one to Marshall in Buffalo, where he allowed Marshall to stop and come back (only to drop it), or against the Jets where he allows him to go up and get it. It's a ball with little air and gives the WR absolutely no chance to get it.

I just don't understand. This is a case where I wish we had someone in the meetings, or we could tweet a writer to ask because I HAVE NO DOUBT IN MY MIND--ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT the coaching staff attributes that as a poorly thrown ball and on Chad Henne and not Brian Hartline.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

I agree with much of what you're saying but I have a hard time swallowing is all these "missed down field opportunities". I know we've missed some, but what WRs and TEs do we have who are capable of consistently threatening the deep middle/perimeter of the field without drops etc? Not saying that sarcastically. Just making sure i'm not missing something.

Dude, you've taken what he said and completely passed over the missed opportunities and turned it into, well we don't have players that are capable of making those plays. When in fact, you completely miss over the fact that when we have the opportunity, whether 50 times a game or 3 times a game, he isn't MAKING THE PLAY.

That's the interesting point of his post--not that we don't have the players. If we didn't have the players we'd never get those shots. Also, if we don't have the players to get those plays, then our OC is doing a damn fine job of calling plays against the defense to put those players in those position to get the opportunity of a big play.

I mean...just completely passing over the fact here.

"Zod wrote:

That is only true if his name is Chad Henne. THAT's the problem with all of your excuses.

That's coming from your mouth, not mine. How have I spoken otherwise?

"djphinfan wrote:

he sounds confused as to what is the right thing to say in that situation after yesterdays events..he pulled out the whole life or death cliche, which tells me someone has told him that a few times..

whats funny is Sparano in his presser all but claims that those int's are killers....lol..

I'm not trying to make any excuses, but truth be told, they technically really weren't killers. Despite Henne's performance, we still were in position to win the game if we kick the FG or don't miss the easy pick 6. That can't be argued against. If the first 2 things happen, then we're not attempting passes to a double covered Bess, Moore, or Wallace late in the 4th QTR. Yes, our offense didn't do anything to help us win, but before the gimme FG, we were tied 10-10. We left 10 pts on the board. Cleveland only left 3 IIRC.

"BigDogsHunt wrote:

I am rooting or Henne, so lets get that straight. But I hope you can find common ground and agree, he has NOT to date, scanned the field clearly and found the BEST guy to though it to. He has failed to trust what he sees - especially on deep routes - and like the 2nd INT yesterday, thrown into TRIPLE coverage to Bess vs attack the softer middle when Fasano had beat his man.

Henne is making decisions that are contributing to his lack of success. I can accept that. I expect him to improve. But for me, right now, as a FAN the growing pains suck.

I agree with ya and share your pain on most of your accounts except for Fasano being open. IMO 3 guys were in Henne's throwing lane when Fasano finally became open, which was about the time he was letting the ball go to Bess. Hart was blanketed down field and Ronnie was still in blocking. On Fasano's break, there was an open lane, but Anthony had a LB right on him. Chad probably should've held it back and attempted to make a play (pick up and run for a few)..... or take a sack and buy us an extra down. It wasn't a horrible decision, but it was a bad throw that needed some quality precision on it IMO. I don't like the throw, but I like that he took the chance.

I do agree that he's not to date..... but from there is where our feelings differ because we're not putting him in the most advantageous position to succeed..... or position to even speed up the process like Sanchez, Ryan, and Flacco were afforded. I also don't blame him for not trusting what he sees downfield. Would you in his situation with no true reliable vertical threat?...... or with guys who've dropped a lot of passes?..... or with guys who are young and inexperienced? Do you not feel that, if he had a guy like Mike Wallace, he couldn't develop a rapport with him?...... and trusting that in 1 on 1 (or a foot of separation) situations he couldn't just chuck it downfield and let "Mike" run under it uncontested?

Triple coverage on Bess tells me that our best WR on the field is taken out of play and we're left with 2 rookie FA going against Haden and a Veteran. I don't like those odds personally.