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This Team is Chronically Sick - Don't expect winning until we're cured.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Oct 3, 2021.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    Your Miami Dolphins. Mine. Are chronically ill with a debilitating sickness.

    100%, no doubt, we're witnessing a leadership problem manifesting itself.
    As bad as some players might be, this isn't all about talent. We can be better than this. Move a lot of these players to other teams and, as usual, they will start to perform better.

    This is a leadership problem.

    There could be division among the leadership. There could be pure inadequacy in terms of hiring personnel at all levels. It's probably both with a nice helping of bad culture as a result, all of it stemming from Ross. This is leadership, and sadly, it means this is a profound, core issue and Miami is going to be a rotten, under-performing team, until it's resolved.

    There's no point in even playing until the leadership issue is resolved. They will play, of course. They have to. Forget about winning seasons though.

    Mark it. Book it.

    Is it Ross? At least partially. Leadership trickles down. Sometimes it pours down in torrents. We've seen these same issues with different coaches, GMs etc. There's a continuance here that leads back to Ross. He has set up some horrible leadership structures in the past. I suspect some of that still continues in his interactions with Flores and Grier, if not others. They'll have to say yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir. And while he remains the top man, he will continue to exert an influence. Does he sell the team? Not likely. The only hope is that he realises he's part of the problem and he finds one man, give him complete control of the team, and let's that man be the top man. That could change the culture. That's the best hope, anyway.

    Is it Grier? At least in large part, yes. Weird draft choices, too many misses, weird stuff going on with picking up and then releasing FAs. It's a mess. And then there's the question raised on the other thread about what happened with Tua getting thrown in mid way last season in a move that surprised many. Was that Flores? He doesn't seem like the type to flip 180 on things he's been repeating like the best man starts. The fact he would pull Tua and put in Fitz to win also leans that way. That all suggests someone else made the call to put Tua in and he had to obey. Was that Ross? Maybe. Was it Grier? Maybe. If Ross overruled Grier and Flores to put Tua in, the Dolphins are done - stick a fork in them. If Grier did, because of pressure etc. then did he do it with Ross' approval or based on authority he wields? He might have persuaded Ross, or he might be the top man in the org. Either way, Grier needs to go. You CANNOT undermine the Head Coach and make him a liar in front of his players.

    Is it Flores? He's the head coach so it will be some of him too, but it's hard to say how much. It depends on how much his hands are tied. Has he been able to hire his own staff? Has he been forced to play certain players? Flores is new, he's from a different football tree. Flores doesn't seem to be doing well on offense, but then, he has also been losing OC's left and right. If Flores is just inadequate then obviously he needs to go, but, if he's been undermined and hamstringed, then maybe, if given the chance to build in a way that adjusts for inadequacies, he could be a good top leader.

    Whatever the specifics, I 100% guarantee this is a leadership issue and questions about roster and player talent are totally and utterly irrelevant. There is NO player or group of players that would fix this. They would become worse here. We've got bad commanders steering the ship. The Dolphins will be playing this season. They have to. Forget about winning seasons though. This Miami team is sick in bed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2021
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  2. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Well said and I agree but the fundamental problem is Flores has not been able to put a competent offensive scheme or coaching staff together. We can’t wait till next year if Flores wants to keep his job he has to fire mid season and replace with someone capable but who’s even available for that at this point??
     
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    If there are problems with Grier or Ross interfering with putting players in, even to the extent of undermining the HC, then there may be reasons Flores can't put or keep a staff together. It's conjecture but it's possible. I don't think Flores chose to insert Tua mid-season. The same person or persons might be the reason good coaches don't want to work here.
     
  4. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division Club Member

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    I am so sick of this team, I could spit. It's a gd curse to be a Lolphins fan.
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    From "reading between the lines" over the past two seasons, this is what I believe happened.

    1) Flores hires Gailey in 2020 to run the offense because he's great with Fitzpatrick.
    2) Fitzpatrick starts slow because we have no offensive line, but quickly hits stride and looks pretty good.
    3) Flores/Gailey are forced to bench Fitz for Tua; even though they knew Tua wasn't ready.
    4) We bench Tua after a few games, he's not ready. But I think there were a whole lot of words spoken behind the scenes on how bad a move this was in the first place.
    5) Fitz is back, Fitz does pretty well and all is forgotten....until he's benched again. Every time he wins, he's benched.
    6) Tua's back, the defense carries him and Gailey can't wait for the season to end. He's been lied to and abused from the get-go and that's just not how to be professional in the NFL. He walks.
    7) Flores tries to hire someone else, 3rd coordinator in three years, and everyone he interviews says, "Screw that- I'd rather go to Cleveland or Detroit. You guys don't have any loyalty to your coaches."
    8) This happens for other coaching positions as well- nobody is really interested. We mainly promote from within instead because there's no other option.

    So now we're in 2021, we have Tua on IR, we don't have Fitz (who wanted out just as bad as Gailey) and we don't have a coordinator in the building that understands Brissett. Now we're spiraling, not because of lack of talent, but because our culture seems to be all about respecting Grier and letting him be the coach, scout, GM, etc. And worst of all, Ross believes every word Grier says, backs him on every move because that's what you do in business...you trust your leadership to have your best interests at heart.

    How do we fix this? It's all about Flores- he's the only one that can turn this around. But this season I don't think it happens on the field; the only cure is in the front office or that stadium luxury box. He needs a staff that will let him play his brand of football, hire the right people and bring in the right players....plus stop jettisoning the veteran leadership we have.

    Plain and simple, Grier and Flores has been on different pages since day 1. Grier wanted to lose, lose, lose in season one, Flores wanted to win, win, win despite seeing our best players shipped off. Flores backed Fitz and his coordinator in year two, Grier had zero respect for either of them. Flores wanted Herbert, instead we got Tua and chased Fitz out of town.

    There's two sides to all of this and Flores can't stay on defense...even though that's what he's good at. He needs to sit down with Ross and have some real conversations about all those "perennial playoff contender" promises before it's too late.
     
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  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    This may well be.
    It's possible Flores and Grier were on the same page for some of this. Flores might not be able to do what we need but right now there are no other options. He also may not be able to be GM and HC. If Grier is removed a new GM is needed and either that's someone who has to keep Flores, which might not work out, or the new GM has freedom to ditch Flores. Ideally, if Flores is legit, the new GM would want to keep Flores, but, that might not happen.

    The whole thing is just horrible. However, Ross may be more of a factor here too.
     
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  7. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Hiring a coordinator because he is great with Fitz is a terrible decision

    This team will need to improve quick for Flores to not be justifiably viewed as part of the problem
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fitz was supposed to be the bridge that allowed Tua to ease into the league while healing up. Gailey was almost the perfect choice.
     
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  9. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    We tried the "find one man" approach twice and it failed badly. Thanks Parcells and Tannenbum.

    A quarter of the league is convinced they have the worst owner.
     
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  10. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    The perfect choice is a coordinator who will stay more than one year and develop an offense suited towards the QB who is supposed to be the franchise QB. Hiring a coordinator for your placeholder is ridiculous and that is true even if Tua never played.

    Them making things worse doesn't make the Gailey hire better either
     
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  11. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    We can’t keep turning over and overhauling our staff. I’ve seen enough out of Flores to give it one more year.

    Ross is definitely part of the problem. He’s the one constant during one of the worst stretches in our franchises history. Weren’t there rumors of him making the push for Tua?

    Grier is a complete idiot. What I don’t know is if Flores is influencing that or not. I’ll never understand why we traded up for a slot receiver who could have been there at 12 or at the very least, his teammate was who I don’t think is any more productive at this point. I’ll never understand why we got rid of Flowers with how bad this line. I’ll never understand why he drafted a small QB with a history of injuries over a guy that at least has prototypical height and elite athleticism. I’ll never understand why we cut pass rushers when we struggle consistently getting to the QB and had one of the best defenses in the NFL.

    I could go on and on. The travesty is we turned 1 player into 4 1st round draft picks and 2 2nd round draft picks and still have a crappy team.
     
  12. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I'm not sure why Flores is still worth retaining. Right now, he's a glorified defensive coordinator over his head.

    But yeah, the Tunsil trade gifted these clowns a jump start to the franchise and they may as well have just forfeited the picks.
     
  13. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Hard to evaluate the offense when you are working with backup QB’s and this poor of an OL. Question is it talent or is it coaching. I wasn’t huge on Jackson coming out of college after watching him get manhandled against Iowa in the Holiday Bowl. I had a 2nd-3rd round grade on him.

    On top of that, I think unless someone is completely inept, you need to give them 4 years. You might argue that he is and based on what I saw today, it would be hard to argue. I’m gonna give him benefit of the doubt after over performing his first two years.
     
  14. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Saw this on the Sentinel website. Obviously Hindsight is 20/20 but wow:


    What would the Dolphins look like if these had been their most recent first-round draft picks?

    Fifth in 2020, quarterback Justin Herbert. Eighteenth in 2020, receiver Justin Jefferson. Thirtieth in 2020, cornerback Trevon Diggs. Twelfth in 2021, left tackle Rashawn Slater. Eighteenth in 2021, linebacker Jaelan Phillips. Then, no trade up from 12 to No. 6, giving up the Dolphins’ 2022 first-rounder. And no trading a 2022 third-rounder to move from 50 to 42 for Eichenberg.
     
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  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I actually said that backwards. Gailey was hired for Tua. Fitz was hired because of Gailey thinking he was ideal as a bridge. The plan all-along was to keep him and let this be his offense to build.
     
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  16. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Why not both? What is there to evaluate? It's a bleepshow all around.

    Personally, I'm good with 3 years unless there is clear upward trajectory. I think it was CBrad who did a study showing that virtually every successful coach makes the playoffs in year 3. That was my barometer starting the season, and it's still the case, but now it's looking like we won't even compete.

    I wouldn't necessarily fire him midseason barring a total collapse, but unless things turn around fast I just don't see him as more than a defensive coordinator. The offense is a catastrophe and he's as much to blame as anyone.
     
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  17. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Other than HC, our biggest problem the last 20+ years has been getting a franchise QB. We missed on drafting Brees even though almost everyone was pegging us to draft him because Wannstedt got cute with Jamar Fletcher. Then we missed on him again in FA. Then we took Long instead of Ryan when we picked #1 in the draft. Long was very good, but you get your QB first even if Ryan is only above average and not elite. Then in 2017 when many were fed up with Tannehill and he was out with injury we don't do what it takes to get our QB, which by luck would have been either Mahomes or Watson, and yes we could have traded up 10 spots. Now, in 2020 we MAY have erred again with Tua (I'm still waiting till the end of the year before damning Tua, but if we got that wrong too we're cursed).

    Chronically sick is correct. At some point though we'll succeed by chance. I just hope I'm still around to see it!!
     
  18. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    My only thing is did those coaches walk into a situation with a franchise QB or get lucky and draft one? Did they have good OL’s or defenses?

    Let’s not forget that people were predicting a 1 win season in 2019 because our cupboards were completely bare. And last year we were 10-6 which in most seasons is good enough to make the playoffs.
     
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  19. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Fitz came before Gailey.

    I think even if I bought the theory of bringing in Gailey for Tua and then Gailey gets upset because they put in Tua (?) you are still left with the obviously questionable decision of bringing in an old retired Chan Gailey in the first place

    It all looks real bad when you consider them having fire an offensive coordinator after 1 year after the first Flores year.
     
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  20. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    I thought O'Shea whatever his name did a good job at OC in Flores first year with what he had.. Nope off you go after one year just like so many other players/coaches. I'm beginning to think anyone who disagrees with Flores or Grier is gone no matter who they got to bring in.
     
  21. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    At some point, you need to hold the coaches accountable for the product on the field. We aren't coaching up anyone on the offense. Our playcalling is garbage. We are running some dumb double OC scheme while actually letting the QB coach call plays. Like, these are Flores issues.

    He will have time to right the ship, but all we are seeing in what should be a pivotal year is regression and disaster. He played above expectation when there was none. Now that we have some? We are folding faster than a cheap lawn chair under Rex Ryan's ***.
     
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  22. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I get it. I just think you give a coach 4 years and you’ve seen enough to move on from him. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
     
  23. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    I went to the shula life celebration and ross could barely read from his script he had in front of him. Was just stumbling every two words. Probably why we haven’t heard much from him lately. I honestly doubt he’s making any football decisions.
     
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  24. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    2 days ago I would have agreed. After watching that game today. It all changed.

    It was that bad.
     
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  25. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    No cure exists!Team has been sick for 20 years!
     
  26. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    For me it all changed on that endzone pass vs the Raiders, if the offensive plays are not flowed through Flores, that's his fault for not ensuring all plays are run through him, and if there is a failsafe where they do run through him and he did nothing to stop that pass play being run, that's even a bigger problem.

    There is no doubt that Flores runs the team the same way he saw Belichick with a hands off and letting this OC do the play calling, issue is Bill has one of the best in the business in McDaniels, so he can afford to delegate the responsibilities, Flores doesn't have that luxury.
     
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  27. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I like Flores and i think the players like him too.

    but if hes not capable of hiring the proper staff to handle the offense then we will have to let him go just based on that alone. We need top quality coaching, and i feel like hes not getting interest around the league to work with him. Three years, 3 different offensive coordinators.. and next year there will likely be a 4th. We have no continuity, no system in place.

    Grier has to go with him too.

    id give Greg Roman an interview if things continue to go as bad as it looks
     
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  28. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Gase agrees with you. Flores is digging a big hole by allowing all the penalties, the bad playcalls, the OL shuffle, and letting Brissett stay on the field despite his terrible play. If Flores at least makes changes to try and get better, then you give him another year under a new GM.
     
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  29. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    It's over! 10/3 and it's all over!

    :crapstrom::crapstrom::crapstrom::crapstrom::crapstrom::crapstrom::crapstrom::crapstrom::crapstrom:

    "Sell the house. Sell the car. Sell the kids. Find someone else. Forget it. I'm never coming back. Forget it."

    ...Apocalypse Now
     
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  30. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Adam Beasley says a key player in his prime is considering quitting the team and retiring from the NFL.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2021
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  31. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I noticed Parker looking absolutely disgusted on the bench after his TD
     
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  32. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Honestly by the deadline our staff should have a read of what the season is. And if there is opportunity to get some picks with some of our players then we should explore those options. Most especially from our crowded secondary.
     
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  33. This X100. Grier is bad at his job and sticks around for some reasons that are too socially/political touchy on a simple football forum. Flores seems like a dude, but is in way over his head from a leadership position.

    However, nothing matters and it is all just dramatic theater until the QB room is fixed. Nice boy, hard worker, but Tua is a gimpy little Qb with an average arm and poor genetics for the position. Brissett is a career journeyman who transferred out of UF because he was just an average talent. So your choices are: 1) sell the farm and the franchise's future for a pervert who can't control himself around women, 2) trade for someone else, but who, 3) try to maneuver the draft to find yet another dice roll at QB without much draft capital and at 3 people who have proven they are low-level at the draft game.

    It is all so tiring. Nothing has changed except now the feel good stories about Griers, Flores, Tuas, Fullers, whoever now must come to grips with actual facts. Walk away, go fishing, build wells in Uganda, read more books, whatever gets you turgid. This isn't going to be fixed anytime soon and anyone who says we are not still at least 2-3 years away (provided we find a QB) is just fluffing you.
     
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  34. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Adam Beasley doesn't even cover the Dolphins anymore am I correct?

    Parker isn't a key player and he's past his prime.

    Wilkins maybe? He isn't very good and doesn't seem interested in football.

    Gesicki? He's looking for a contract and they aren't throwing him the ball at all for some reason.

    Howard or Jones? Why should they take the brunt of it when they do their job for 95% of the game?

    Gaskin? He played what three snaps today?

    It's easy to say Fuller or Wilson. Who cares if they retire though?
     
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  35. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Parker has done more than anyone else on offense even though that doesn't say much.

    Fuller would make sense after his strange week 2 absence.
     
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  36. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    He said it’s not Fuller.
     
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  37. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Well, it is. There are teams who are 1-3 who might come back and have a good season. And you can tell that from how they play. The Fins are not one of those teams. Their offensive line play is just too horrible for that to happen.
     
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  38. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking maybe Howard. He has actually not been playing very well the last couple of games, and he has an injury history with chronically bad knees.
     
  39. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    That would be my guess. Lots of money made, some health issues, tired of losing.
     
  40. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    Our problem isn't the players. It's the coches. Shuffle all the players, get a great QB, it won't make this team good.
     

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