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This Team is Chronically Sick - Don't expect winning until we're cured.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Oct 3, 2021.

  1. plc001

    plc001 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we are sucking for.... wait... whose the next great QB entering the draft this year? Wasnt he suspected of retiring a couple of weeks ago. He's playing like his mind is made up, but needs the paychecks.
     
  2. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    If Grier had paid attention to Howard's medicals and injury history, he should have known it was only a matter of time before his knee problems caught up with him. X has undergone numerous knee scopes and meniscus issues, he is known for chronically bad knees, and those things don't get better with time. That's why his play has fallen off a cliff. We should have traded him when he was at his peak, it's all downhill from here.
     
  3. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    If he retires it will be because of his knee problems. His play has diminished because of physical problems, not mental problems.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  4. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Bad news, this draft is QB weak and no matter how bad we suck, it doesn’t help our draft pick.
     
  5. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it’s his knees, or maybe he got his contract and finds it harder to care. Don’t know him well enough to say, but one thing is for sure, he is not playing up to that contract.
     
  6. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, probably true. Considering his play last year, it is really falling off a cliff big time.
     
  7. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Its not like trading their good players for picks has worked
     
  8. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    That's a good point. I was thinking in the hypothetical case that we didn't have a GM who sucks at drafting.
     
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  9. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Yea but Tannehill will never be good enough to win a superbowl unless the team he is on has a early 2000 Ravens or Bucs defence.
    With all the rule changes I don't think we will ever see defences like that again.
    But then again somehow Nick Foles won one so never say never.
     
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree- Eli Manning has a couple of rings and several other 'good but not great' QB's have followed in his footsteps in recent years. I know Brady and NE sort of warps that narrative because they were so dominant for so long, but I think any of the top-10 have a shot in any given year with solid defensive and special teams play.

    The other unique thing about the Titans is Henry- you always have to account for him and that keeps defenses honest. It really is the perfect offense for Tannehill to excel in.

    I mean, just look at the early dominant team this season- Chargers, Ravens, Bills, Cowboys, Cardinals, Packers, and Bucs. I'd say three or four of those have elite QB's (Tampa, GB, Arizona, Buffalo)...but there's a few with just above average QB's too.
     
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  11. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Have to disagree with you my friend.Dak,Herbert,jackson are pretty close to elite and all better than tannehill.
     
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  12. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    "...but if this works it will be incredible."

    Chris Grier's motto.

    You're getting rid of veterans to play new guys, that's a lot of leadership lost.
    "Yeah...but if this works it will be incredible."

    You're trading for an often injured WR, he's fast but he's had problems.
    "Yeah...but if this works it will be incredible."

    You're picking a young pass catching TE but there are decent OL available.
    "Yeah...but if this works it will be incredible."

    Etc...
     
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  13. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    It’s hard to tell if this team has quit on Flores if Grier is just this bad at building a roster.
     
  14. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Weekly reminder

    Clean house and then sell the team
     
  15. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    This team is garbage. Three years of "rebuilding." Yeah, they tore down a 3/2 suburban cookie-cutter home and put up a double-wide in tornado alley.
     
  16. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    The main problem of this team isn't talent, is management. Make it your mantra.
    The coaching is bad. However, there's a problem also affecting the coaching - the management.

    That might stop with Grier but it's likely, maybe even mostly, Ross too.

    Until this team is managed well it will not succeed.

    Book it.
     
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  17. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again. This team has a management/leadership issue.

    Different problems different weeks.

    It's not the roster. It's the franchise leadership.
     
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  18. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    This is my thinking as well.
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tua is done here, everything else cannot be in sync, it’s over, either Watson and Flores get another opp or the whole thing gets rebuilt
     
  20. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    We wouldn’t know if we did have one. Very difficult to evaluate progress or even develop for that matter when the organization can’t even provide an offensive line or even a coordinator.
     
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  21. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I don't really know what option they will have if they don't get Watson. Unless they unload their trade assets to trade in a bad QB draft they would have to stick with Tua.
     
  22. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t necessarily think Tua is the answer long term but I think he’s played well enough to give him another chance for another year and a half. The bigger issue on this team is blocking, pressuring the QB and our running game.

    They completely botched the handling of Fitz/Tua last year and it sounds like that caused some issues in the chemistry of the locker room. Now what happens when the guy you draft #5 is playing some of his best football and still young, then you yank the chain?
     
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  23. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    It's not the QB. It's not any one player or position. It's the management and leadership of this team.
    The most important moves this team will make next will be the coaching and management moves. Maybe, just maybe, with really good coordinators brought in, and if Grier (or whomever) learns that veterans are important, this team could be different. I would like to see Grier move on, at least, and possibly some new position coaches. The problem is that means Grier and Flores will be associated again with cutting bait on coordinators and coaches. That, on top of whatever issues people already see in Miami, may mean that Flores and Grier both have to go and a new GM and HC and coordinators can be brought in. Until things on that level are sorted, nothing else will matter. At all.

    We should almost forget the draft sections and draft podcasts and draft analysis and have a coaching and management section. That's not realistic of course, but in terms of significance, especially to Miami right now, it's utterly essential.
     
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  24. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I cosign every single word of this post. Sorry for the horribly apt cliche, but this fish is rotten from the head down. Losing what will be a top-5 pick in the draft was the nail in Grier's coffin and Flo's arrogance toward personnel management bit him in his *ss. The good news: The personnel on the roster is still better than 70% of the league, so a competent coach can fix our problems almost right away. Also, the abundance of cap space (along with the roster) is going to lure a top flight GM to Miami. So I actually expect we'll get the best coach and GM candidate on the market due to what looks to be low-hanging fruit. Ross should be blowing up Kansas City's phone right now to let them know that Eric Bienemy won't be back next season. Heck, I'd even try to lure Ryan Day.

    BTW: When I saw this, I immediately went into "Thank God NCAA basketball is starting this week" mode:
     
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  25. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Tannehill is more than good enough to win a Super Bowl. His trade to Tennessee should have been a HUGE eye opener if how bad of a TEAM we are.
     
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  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    TBH I think this is on Jesse Davis. All the linemen went left, and he went right.
     
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  27. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    delaware
    Lets see how good he is now without Henry.
     
  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Captain Jesse Davis getting Tua killed… I for one am shocked.
     
  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It almost seems like it is on purpose at this point
     
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  30. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    All the headlines and talk now asking how the Dolphins will fix their roster now that Watson isn't incoming... I feel like I'm a member of a different species or in another dimension. Who are these blind or mindless creatures?

    You can hate Tua and still see the clear reality that this team needs more than a QB change.

    What's wrong with people?

    Mindless, mindless talk all the time....

    Urgh.
     
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  31. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    I've been thinking about this thread lately what with the season effectively ending and the big turn around we saw from the Dolphins.

    The title and opening post of this thread to not expect winning until major changes were made but somehow the Dolphins pulled off a 7-game win streak, an NFL first after a 7 game losing streak. So was I wrong? Was this an over-reaction?

    Well, we've still got one game to play, if the Dolphins can pull off a convincing win against a Patriots team that has built up some momentum, or can at least prove to be competent in a close loss, that will be important for evaluating where this team is sitting. However, I think I'm going to stand by my original post here.

    This was how I described the issue originally:

    "100%, no doubt, we're witnessing a leadership problem manifesting itself.
    As bad as some players might be, this isn't all about talent. We can be better than this. Move a lot of these players to other teams and, as usual, they will start to perform better.

    This is a leadership problem.

    There could be division among the leadership. There could be pure inadequacy in terms of hiring personnel at all levels. It's probably both with a nice helping of bad culture as a result, all of it stemming from Ross. This is leadership, and sadly, it means this is a profound, core issue and Miami is going to be a rotten, under-performing team, until it's resolved.

    There's no point in even playing until the leadership issue is resolved. They will play, of course. They have to. Forget about winning seasons though.

    Mark it. Book it."

    It was obviously a bit strong to say that there's no point in playing and perhaps to say that we can forget about winning seasons. What Flores managed to achieve in recovering to an 8-8 record at this point went against all odds. I think it's clear we've been able to put together a decent defense - except maybe that run D we saw last night. We were also able to draft some decent guys up top - Holland, Phillips, Waddle. So there are some signs of light and life in this team that maybe indicate good things are possible.

    However, as much as the good things are real, so too the bad things are real. The past didn't vanish away. A big part of my original post is the history of this team. This isn't new for Miami. We've been on this not-so-merry-go-round for a long while now. I won't repeat all the problems and questions again, but I made that initial post so emphatic because it was just so obvious to me due to repetition. Chronic issues don't just disappear. Things are the way they are for a reason. Wishful thinking won't change that.

    Leadership is still the main problem with this franchise. If I want to play devil's advocate maybe I could argue that the new OC's and position coaches are just that - new - and they need time to learn and grow, and we can just stick with it. But on the offensive side of the ball that's tough to believe. The play calling continues to be weird at times, the performance of the OL is a big problem. It's hard to see how we can think we've got the coaching right on the offensive side. Time will tell, I suppose.

    I'm going to have a quiet offseason I think. I'm just going to wait and see what Ross does and what his team does. I really am not sure what's going to happen from this year to next but this year might be the most essential of all the Flores rebuild years. This could be the first true step into a new era of successful Miami football, or the nail in the coffin for another failed project.

    Something needs to change. Every time I look at it I come back to Grier. But I'm not on the inside. Can they figure it out?
     
  32. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know how much of it is some deep rooted/systemic issue versus we fielded the worst OL in Dolphins history and a QB who’s rated in the bottom half of QB’s. I’m guessing if you looked at commonalities of winning vs OL play and QB ranking, you’d see overwhelming evidence that it’s hard to be successful when you struggle there. Then when you throw in a mid tier defense, we’re probably lucky to be 8-8.
     
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I forgot about this thread- I started a "Miami's going to go on a win streak" kind of thread because of this one. But nobody could have called seven in a row! I thought we had a good 4-game stretch after Baltimore to maybe get us to 5 or 6 wins, but that Baltimore game changed everything.

    The only thing I hope fans realize is HOW we went on that 7-game win streak. Our defense matured into something special, and then we witnessed the Tua and Waddle show for an impressive stretch. Hopefully people realize though that it's not sustainable by itself- no quarterback can take the place of a RB, 5 linemen and a couple of top-notch receivers. Even with 7 wins in a row, this team is just as broken as were were at 1-7.

    Guys, I'm 48 years old, about 65 pounds overweight and a bad back, yet I still have better technique as a linemen than we're seeing from several of our players.

    Offensive line is almost like a dance- you're low, you're balanced, and you slide side to side with small steps to keep that leverage and balance...and it's a dance you do hundreds of times a day...tens of thousands of times per year. So when I tell you that the basic fundamentals aren't there on the field, understand that I'm talking about what 8 years olds are taught in pee-wee league. Tua has zero chance out there for any semblance of a pocket- this is easily the worst line we've ever had as an organization and it's not even close.

    To get the offensive line THIS WRONG, across all five positions, someone has to be fired. And I know there's a decent chance we'll end up 9-8 and miss the playoffs by one game, but you have to look past that and understand that this easily could have been a 13-14 win team with a few key moves on that offensive line and at WR. The front office completely failed offensively and there needs to be accountability.

    Why am I so passionate about this...even after a 7-game win streak? It's super hard to put together a defense of this caliber and the Dolphins time to shine started last year. This is two seasons in a row we've had one of the best D's in the league and it was completely wasted with this broken, dysfunctional offense where we have to use creativity and gimmicks to generate points. It's like we have the Bears 1985 defense on one side of the ball and the Bad News Bears on the other...it's just a ridiculous waste of talent and we won't get these years back.

    We have another few years with this D under contract and then it gets tough to keep them together, so the time to win is NOW.

    Going into the offseason, Grier can probably build us a free agent line that gets the job done. So if he's not replaced then it's not the end of the world, but I really think we could do better with a GM that supports his coach and realizes what an offense needs to be productive. This season, the Dolphins didn't even try to hire a line coach, for example, and that essentially doomed the year with all these young players. They have regressed with technique as well, so even when you do see decent protection once in a blue moon...there's no way to sustain that. We have to have competent coaching and veteran leadership, we just have to.

    Miami could be a super bowl contender next season with 4 new linemen (keep Hunt) a solid RB and one stud receiver. I just don't think we get there with Grier and I would replace or demote him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2022
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  34. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    I think the difference between 'just an OL/QB issue' and a 'deep rooted/systemic issue' is for how long those problems have continued and with different people.

    We've seen similar problems and results for years. We've changed coaches. We've had failing offensive lines. We've had average QB play. As much as we can look at any one player, something goes beyond those issues and ties them together.

    Key's post, below yours, above mine, is one way of looking at it. Right now the issue might be that we don't have a great OL. The secondary question is why not? Why haven't we had a good OL for years? Bad luck making picks? Bad decision in FA? Bad positional coaching? A problem seeing it as a priority?
    Beyond the OL I'd add play-calling this year.

    We have a leadership issue in Miami that results in the problems we see on the field. Until that issue is fixed the on-field issues won't be resolved.
     
  35. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    You could certainly argue Ross is incompetent. We’ve had 7 head coaches since 2004 or one new one every 2.5 years. That’s not a recipe for success anywhere.

    I think this last off-season we could have entered the season with a a decent OL had we just kept Karras and Flowers. Hunt is playing very well. You’d still have issues at the T position but at least the interior would be solid.

    Sometimes I just think Grier gets too cute. Jackson, Noah I, letting vets walk, signing horrible ones. I don’t trust him this off-season but I’m guessing they’re getting one more year to fix this. I’m not sold on Tua but I think if we can build a good OL, run the ball effectively and play good defense, this team has a chance to be a playoff contender.
     
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  36. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    Letting the vets walk was a major error. The mystery surrounding the exit of various coaches hasn't be answered and one wonders if something toxic contributed to that. Was the co-OC decision really the main plan? If so, that's a weird decision - more 'getting cute'? If not, then what was the plan and why didn't it pan out, why were we forced into plan B (or C or D...)?

    And ultimately, whatever the cause, is it fixable or does someone just need replacing?
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I know I am in the vast minority with this but the co-OC thing is the most overblown thing I have seen since being a Dolphin fan. It is just a title. Godsey and Studsville are doing the same thing as if either one was the only OC. It is just a title.

    I do know that a lot of people that people wanted to be Dolphins OC either got fired or people are calling for them to be fired.
     
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  38. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    I struggle to believe it was plan A. And if it was it's another odd move. We move two position coaches into a joint OC position with no such experience and then fill those two position coach vacancies with 'rookies' to those positions. And that with a new team full of rookies, experimental stuff all over.
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The plan looked to be to keep Gailey and he retired. They interviewed others and the only person I know they might have lost out on went to Pittsburgh. Who fans are calling to be fired.

    So they gave the job to Godsey or Studdsville and to keep the other they made him a co-OC. Since coaching is colaborative anyway, other than the title, there is little difference.

    Both Godsey and Studdsville are experienced coaches.

    Good experienced OCs are not going to be available. Either going to have to get someone who failed and hopefully learned their lesson or a rookie.
     
  40. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    Well.

    As I said.

    Leadership issues.

    It's likely we still have them, I doubt this was all on Flores.

    Chronically. Sick. Team.
     
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