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thought process claiming Justin Hunter

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Sep 5, 2016.

  1. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    There were a number of players waived this weekend, and maybe Miami made claims for them, but the Hunter claim is intriguing. I think this team's identity and the attitude of the coaching and FO, is that this offense is a clear strength, esp the passing game. I believe that their attitude was one claim on defense was not going to fix a global problem on that side of the ball. There is also the Devante Parker issue with health. They need someone to play that role, and Hunter could be that player, although it is hard to depend on a new signing and a player that has disappointed.

    Does anyone have insight on why Hunter failed for the Titans?
     
  2. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    Personally I think they just have too many good WRs. He is only 25 and was a high draft pick. Could be a steal.
     
  3. Georgia Fin

    Georgia Fin Fin For Life

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    Ever put any thought into claiming him as they might look at shipping someone off in a trade. Lots of going on behind the scenes this time of year. Probably not be it, but I wouldn't rule it out either.
     
  4. sandcastle

    sandcastle Active Member

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    Hunter may be one of those that failed at becoming a starter, but can help a team as a 4 receiver.

    Tannehill seems to throw with more anticipation to Hunter-sized receivers. Armon Binns is a good example as he was heavily targeted after a mid week waiver claim. My guess is that Hunter is used during 3rd and long with Tannehill throwing the ball before he comes out of his break; and Hunter's length helps pick-up 1st downs on 12-15 yard passes.
     
  5. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    Build on strengths is something teams do too


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    And/or even as a redzone target.
     
  7. sandcastle

    sandcastle Active Member

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    Yep. I'm low-balling may expectations so if he produces similar stats of 20 catches for 250 yards; it could be very valuable if it results in more 3rd and long conversions. With a hurry-up ball possession offense, such conversions should lead to more points on the board.

    I could see Hunter having success if used in the role Hartline had in his last Dolphin season, where Tannehill targeted him 20-30 yards in the deep left zone. However, Parker and Stills will need to become a greater threat to the defense to allow regular single coverage.

    Perhaps, the most interesting aspect is that Hunter is replacing last year's 4th WR, Rishard Matthews, while Stills seems to have upped his game to solidify a starter's role.
     
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  8. ChrisKo

    ChrisKo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Contact year for Stills, so this might be more about making sure the WR group remains strong next year.
     
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  9. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I think it's really simple, Hunter > Whalen, as a 5th or 6th WR.

    Hunter is a tall stick figure(6-4, 200lbs) that can run, sub 4.0 speed, he's not a RZ threat, he doesn't work across middle, he's a destitute(not just poor) mans Randy Moss.

    This is a guy who was drafted in the 2nd based on measurables, which are impressive.
     
  10. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    The issue with Hunter is consistency. Always has been even when he was at Tennessee IIRC. I think to put it simply, it provides with a tall, large catch radius guy who can help spell our powder puff WR we currently have on the roster. It provides with some security for the inevitable days when Parker can't go.

    The staff is going on the WR coach's word, and the potential he may have compared to someone like Whalen. They likely feel Hunter can still grow, whereas Whalen may have reached his ceiling in their eyes. Hunter has never accounted for more than 498 yards in a season, so at best he is a decent option at WR. When you think about it, Hunter, outside of Landry and Stills is the most experienced guy at the position. Stills is going to have a good year as it is a contract year; so he may leave.

    We get experience with measurables, in a spot where not much more than what he's accomplished is expected from him. If he has his average season, we will benefit from it.

    One more aspect is being able to trot out duplicate 3 receiver sets. Landry, Parker and Stills can be mimicked by Hunter, Caroo and Grant. There respective skill sets may be different, but at any time we can throw out sets of three players who can cover aspects of the passing game; size, speed and possession. Those roles are covered.

    If we continue the pace we do on offense, being able to swap in and out with ease while maintaining matchup issues on the whole is better than having issues doing so.
     
  11. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    My point also for the post is that there were positions of need that were released this weekend and we did not sign. Maybe our claims were rejected or maybe they want to build on strengths. I know Parker being out helped this waiver claim


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Binns was targeted 4 times in his first active game with the Dolphins (which wasn't the first game he was on the roster).

    He had 7 targets in his last game with the dolphins, but so did Hartline, and two others had 6 targets (and Bush had 5). Tannehill certainly didn't favor him (or heavily target him imo) based on those stats.
     
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  13. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Gase likes two tall options; said he scouted Hunter extensively and got some inside info from Shawn Jefferson who coached him at Tennessee.
     
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  14. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Also, a lot of times, being cut is a big motivator.
     
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  15. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    If someone gets motivated and plays well after being cut, then the coaches of the first team screwed up.

    How many guys did Don Shula cut who then went on to play significant roles for other teams?
    Tony Martin is the only name that comes to my mind.

    Under Philbin?
    Brandon Marshall, Karlos Dansby, Vontae Davis, and Sean Smith all had much more productive years than the gumbies Philbin replaced them with. Hell, it even looks like Jamar Taylor could do well for the Browns this year after showing nothing much under Philbin, and a hell of a lot better than whatever they could have got with the 7th round pick they gave to us for him.
    I'll give Philbin a pass for Incognito being more productive in Buffalo than his replacements here because that wasn't a football decision.

    Human nature means no coach is ever going to connect 100% with 100% of his players, but too many people give coaches a free pass when someone they discard turns outto be good for another team.
     
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  16. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    He said he felt he knew it could be coming. That kinda concerns me like, why didnt you do more to prevent it then?
     
  17. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    interesting Gase is calling out Parker for not being a professional, and Hunter has the same tag on him. It might be whichever wants to mature the fastest and become a player.
     
  18. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    to me it stresses how bad this offense needs the "threat" of a tall, fast WR. If this kid can stay on the field, then it's more than we have right now with Parker. Can he catch and get open is the question?
     
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  19. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I think Gase wants a big, physical WR on the team. With Parker hurt, Hunter fills that void.
     
  20. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Well it's not just a one way street, I agree that coaching plays a role, and that better coaching reaches more players, but sometimes it's not the coaches lack, it's the players lack.

    A couple of examples, James Harrison, he was cut 3 times by the Steelers and once by the Ravens, he just didn't listen to the coaches, he was a beast, but played to his own fiddle, it was after the 4th time he was cut that he realized he has to listen to the coaches, then he becomes the DPoY.

    It wasn't the coaches fault, it was his fault.

    Cam Wake, he was cut by the Giants, who were pumping out great DEs like they were a factory, it wasn't until 2 years later when he was watching an NFL game and x-teammate from Penn on the TV, and it struck him, "i'm better than him, I should be out there", and then he started working out like crazy, and the rest is history.

    It wasn't the coaches fault, it was his fault.

    Sometimes the player is just being a knucklehead, and sometimes the sting of being cut is just the right motivating tool for that player, sometimes it's less than stellar coaching, I agree, but sometimes it's the player being a knucklehead, and even great coaching doesn't reach him, it takes them realizing something about themselves, and sometimes being cut is the wake up call.
     
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  21. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Hunter isn't a physical WR, just the opposite actually, he's tall and fast.
     
  22. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    let's not forget his role. Right now it will be a simple 9 route or deep curl. Can he catch? I don't know after seeing Ajayi.
    However, to realistically think he will be an important part of the offense, is going to be unrealistic. Unless Parker will be out for a long time, the playbook will be very limited.
     
  23. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Look at it like basketball...we need a backup center for insurance. Our game isn't built around one, but we still need someone to play in the paint and take the tip off.
     
  24. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I agree,

    But the list of players who have succeeded because a new coach connected to them and gave them a chance is much longer than the players who turned things around by a light going off inside their head. When you look at the great coaches in history, you don't see them cutting future pro-bowlers or HoFers. Teaching skills and player motivation are just as, if not more important, than Xs and Os when it comes to making a great coach.

    If your coach is worth a damn he'll be on the positive side of the reclamation project ledger. And I haven't seen that in Dolphins coaches since at least JJ.
     
  25. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how one could know that. Lots of players have improved because of maturity.
     
  26. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Hunter is the quintessential knucklehead.
     
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  27. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    We basically traded Hunter for Richard Matthews. Kinda like we traded Lamar Miller for Foster. Would rather have kept Matthews. Would rather have kept Miller.
     
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  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    We basically traded Hunter for Greg Jennings or Matt Hazel.
     
  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    No we traded Matthews for Carroo.
    We traded Whalen for Hunter.
     
  30. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, of course, but then you go right back to the coaches. It's their job to recognize physical potential and to bring it out. Sometimes it takes sitting someone down and saying, 'look kid, I trust you have the skills for the NFL, I want you to succeed but your level of discipline just isn't going to get it down. If you do A, B, and C you're going to be a star in this league and play for a long time. You're either going to realize that now, while you're here or it's going to hit you when you get to another team and realize you wasted half your career. Or it's going to hit you when you fall out of the league like Player X or Player Y.'

    That's exactly what we hope that our coaches are doing. It's the job that they're entrusted to do. They're the only ones who get to speak to the players and relay that message. These players aren't scientists and entrepreneurs. They are athletes. They are paid to eat right and work out like crazy. If they're not doing that it's the coaches who are there to make sure they fall in line.

    So, while I understand that the players have to take ownership of their lives just like you and I do, a huge part of the coach's role is to get players motivated and to make damn sure they're as disciplined as they need to be--because a lot of these guys (who aren't necessarily always the most driven and disciplined people) are going to slack off whenever possible, whether that's a practice or a workout or a film study.

    Shula was a hard *** who got it done. Dungy was a more subtle, honest communicator who wouldn't lie to you. Players respect both.

    Philbin sucked because he was neither tough nor believable. He wasn't the type of personality that a player would fight for nor was he someone who a player would deeply respect.

    The biggest positive so far with Gase in terms of this is that while he's not necessarily a veteran hard-***, he's a guy who's 100% committed to doing things as well as you can and to winning. Players respect winning, especially younger players who don't want to be seen as a joke of a team.
     
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  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Can't really get excited about this one. It's funny that Shawn Jefferson tried to motivate him once by putting "J.A.G." on his jersey during a practice because that's what he looks like on tape. He looks like just a guy.

    He runs routes that everyone can run.
    He runs with speed and quickness that is at the low end of common.
    He catches balls that everyone catches.
    He fails to haul in balls that many also fail to haul in.
    He goes down on contact as many others do.
    He has the physicality of someone much smaller than him.

    This is what I saw in college and it's what bugged me so much about him, also what bugs me about him as a pro. You're a player that is attractive because you're big, but you never PLAY big. You don't haul in passes over top of anyone. Someone makes a mistake, you'll probably take advantage. But no more or less than others.

    You're 6'4" and 205 lbs, and to your credit, you run routes like someone that is maybe 6'2" and 205 lbs. But your physicality is that of someone who is more like 5'11" and 190 lbs. So overall you're just not very compelling.

    You are:

    [​IMG]
     
  32. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Great description of him.

    I know there's plenty of discussion going on in here regarded coaches turning the light on for someone like Hunter - but IMO it's far more likely his character wouldn't allow for it.

    It bothers me when players made of this cloth are constantly rewarded in the guise of "being given a chance". I'd rather give a roster spot to someone who really wants to prove something, even if he's not hitting all the physical measureables. They brought him in to spook Devante Parker - but really who are they kidding here?
     
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  33. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Well that could very well be the case. Maybe Gase liked him coming out as well. It's not entirely uncommon for a coach to go after a project he liked coming out of college if said played is still young.

    Guys lets not act like the Titans were a powerhouse with amazing coaching and the kid flat out failed. I'm not saying he's going to light the world on fire but would anyone be shocked if a player who needed coaching didn't get it in his time there?
     
  34. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Who's going to coach it out of him here in Miami? Shawn Jefferson? Been there done that with the Titans. Please don't tell me you think Adam Gase is also a WR whisperer either.

    Dude was on the roster bubble and like an idiot he was taking bets in the locker room trying to elevate and pluck money out of the ceiling ..... only to hurt his ankle. Who does that? For some pocket money? Just shows you where his priorities are at.

    The problem is that this current coaching staff isn't a bunch of miracle workers. Most importantly, Miami is not place where a fragile ego and suspect desire can be straightened out. You need culture for that. You need hard work and discipline all around you to kickstart such a transformation.
     
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  35. ChrisKo

    ChrisKo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Cameron Wake

    :shifty:

    But for real, he did it and there's video that everyone loved.
     
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  36. argos31

    argos31 Member

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    Having watched him in college a lot as a Vol fan I can say that he was incredible when he saw the field until his acl tear in his 2nd season. Coming back from that he lost his explosiveness and his quickness. Also, he seemed much more hesitant to compete for the ball, it was a sad sight to see his drop off.
    I thought he could be a perennial pro bowler and a top 5 pick before the injury.
     

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