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Thoughts on Jimmy Johnson.....

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by T. Nathan22, Nov 5, 2010.

  1. T. Nathan22

    T. Nathan22 Dolphins fan since 72

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    I don't know if anybody else saw this but I did. In response to a query on FOX pre-game last week pertaining to Bret Favre being done and hurting the Vikings..... JJ threw Dan Marino under the bus for his failure in Miami.
    I never liked JJ myself. Credit, he built a great defense. But Kareem Abdul Jabar? The WR of his era were all 3 and 4th stringers.
    It just rubbed me the wrong way I guess. IMO, Jimmy pulled off the heist of the century with Walker to get the best team in football. Hell, Switzer got a ring after JJ left with that team. The equal of a phonebook coaching that team to a ring.
     
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  2. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    JJ was the reason we got stuck with Dave Wannstedt

    That is enough to put him in the crapper
     
  3. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Right, actually it was indeed Jerra Johnson that pulled off the Hershey bar flogging. It was JJ that made a name from it.... without any doubt, the last and only good thing Jerra did as owner.
     
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  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I am Dolphin fan before I am a Marino fan, however if he did get rid of Marino and then one a superbowl just wouldn't feel right.

    I would have forgiven him by the 2nd superbowl though.
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Someone also rooked the Saints for a #1 and #3 pick for Steve Walsh, and FA came along with no salary cap and they added Haley and Sanders etc.

    As for JJ's time in Miami, I think Sparano will pass him but he was the second best coach we have had since Shula stepped down, without JJ here, would we have even had the Wanny era level of 10 win season success?

    People often overlook the fact those JJ/Wanny teams had solid seasons for 5 or 6 years, but Shula had better seasons the previous say 5 yrs he just left Miami in Cap Purgatory when he stepped down, JJ left a solid young core that Wanny ran directly into the mud after 5 yrs in Miami.

    As for throwing Marino under the bus, JJ lost his balls years ago he has far more interest in fishing than football so his opinion TBH really does not mean anything at all, he is more of a relic than a sharp football guy nowadays so he has no real reputation to lose by just saying whatever.
     
  6. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    Look, I watched Marino since his rookie days and he'll always be one of my favorite Dolphins, but people need to come to terms with the fact that the Marino of the last couple of years of JJ's tenure was not the same QB.

    Like Favre and other QB's who were "gunslingers", when you start to lose a few miles an hour off the old fastball then those passes you zipped through tight coverages a decade earlier suddenly wind up incomplete or intercepted. Unfortunately, gunslingers rarely lose the mentality though, and the costly mistakes start to pile up, magnified by the fact that they can't quite overcome them with brilliance the way they used to.

    JJ may have been a bit heavy-handed, but the intention was right. The problem was he couldn't find a RB to compliment Marino the same way the Broncos were able to with Terrell Davis. That was a much more critical error than the way he used Dan.
     
  7. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    JJ was a failure here pure and simple.

    Without JJ here odds are we would have been better.
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    JT and Zach Thomas and Daryl Gardner and Madison and Surtain were the foundation of the defense for what..7 yrs?
     
  9. Makados10

    Makados10 Active Member

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    We can crap on Jimmy for different reasons, but there's not many others I'd rather have in our war room on draft day...
     
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  10. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Marino's legs aged a thousand times ahead of his arm. He most definitely was not the same.
     
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  11. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Agree but JJ took away the Marino audible.
    Also moved Coleman, Cox, Vincent
    Once again he took away the audible and ran Jabbar.
    We were 8-8 in 96 :lol:
     
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  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    The biggest error was not getting Dan a wide receiver.
     
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  13. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Yeah Barnett, Jordan, Ismail, Perriman

    agree

    Lamar Thomas oops forgot
     
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  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Shula was Coach and de facto GM and went on a huge spending spree Killahp, so much so that we lost those guys due to the Salary Cap, we literally had no money to sign them due to the Keith Jackson's and Keith Byer's being signed.

    JJ walked into a situation were his best defensive players were leaving by Free Agency and the only way to replace them was with Adbul Jabar's and Jared McPhal's.
     
  15. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    We also drafted Stanley Pritchett who was a good target being a fullback.
    A lot of Dolphins fan will have problems with Jerris McPhail not me really.
    Although when Kirby came along that was a good back.
    Everyone understands the history.

    Remember the Pritchett wheel route aganst the Jets?
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Kirby wound up injuring his knee after a Sammie Smith style bout of fumblitis.

    Of course he went to SF and was a great player for them..D:

    JJ's prowess as Draft Master was not as solid as I used to think, for the Taylor's and Madison's there was a John Avery and Cecil Collins as well.

    Didn't mind Pritchett or McPhail either, thought losing Webb and Sims was kinda dumb but JJ had put the Dallas Oline together with UDFa's, Vets, and mid round picks and he tried the same thing in Miami and it didn't work.

    Used to love the speed on Defense though, man those guys could fly to the football.
     
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  17. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    the John Avery pick tanked us bad at the time. 1st round pick never got his feet And JJ Johnson and Cecil sad.

    I'm over Sammie Smith.... and Bobby Humphrey

    Still think Aaron Craver was better than Irving Spikes
     
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  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'm glad we got something for Smith.

    Looking back, what really held JJ's team back was he never could quite add that upper level of talent, he added just enough to the Defense for it to be "really good" but never enough to be great, he never could quite upgrade Jabbar, nor the Wr position.

    JJ would never have drafted Odrick for instance, he never would have taken the shot at making a good unit a dominant unit, that was his undoing.

    Type that and think about Sparano/Irish, and wonder if next yr they would have the balls to move Misi to ILB and draft another OLB to put the lb corps into "dominant" status?

    Or add two linemen and a Te in the first three picks?

    Hmm.
     
  19. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    We talked about this a lot when I was new to to the site about a year ago Padre. I thought the D had chances to get young and we have. Moving Misi to the inside is not outside the realm of possibilty. told you that. That won't bug me if it happens.
    I wanted Graham. Build the OlB's. You and I both know Wake's development was there. the LB's we in trouble last season. I wanted book ends felt like Brandon might develop into a Woodley type.
    We have Odrick who is out of the fold.....
     
  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It happens, Odie is conscientous enough that I'm not concerned about his return, Phil Merling on the other hand, is a concern, will he come back focused, or will he balloon up and continue to be a headcase.

    Still disagree about dumping both Taylor and Porter, they did want taylor back and for good reason, they did not claim Merriman for no reason we need that passrushing specialist I've been jammering about for awhile now.

    I'd still like to see a committment to making one important unit the best in the NFL, Oline, Dline, Lb's, even Wr's, to me you have to have that to be a playoff game winning team and not just a "happy be here" team.
     
  21. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    Maybe I am too much of a homer but Dan was just fine.

    Yeah his mobility was a problem but his arm was fine.

    Old Brett Farve he was not.

    The last year his nerve problem in his neck/shoulder area is what hurt his stats but thats it.

    JJ is a freaking f 'tard.

    His dummy *** let go of every damn receiver Dan had except for McDuffie (and he destroyed his career in the end), he takes away Dan's ability to audible not to mention the guy FIRES Gary Stevens and replaces him with dummies.

    Brings in Barnett who promptly blows his knee out. Y. Green and his blown out knees...About the only one he brought in that was meh because he was already in the down side of his career was Tony Martin.

    We had a decent amount of FAs true, but we had the room to sign'em JJ just wanted to put HIS mark on the team and prove he could play with the cap so he let Fryar (who rocked in Philly afterwards) and others (Troy Vincent who also rocked in Philly) go. I know he 'tried' to sign Vincent but I dont think it was a whole hearted attempt.

    Mediocre backs and FBs. The defense was fine except for the fact we had NO DEPTH. We'd get to the playoffs all digged up and crap out because half the team was hurt or out and no one to back them up worth a crap.

    What was it that he was called on Fin Heaven back in the day? 'The Great Satan' was it?
     
  22. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box


    Marino was done, and to this day if when you ask him he says, my arm felt like it could go another couple of years but his legs let him down and led him to retire.

    Nothing to do with running. His legs effected the way he threw big time. His words.....
     
  23. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I wouldn't say Marino was a "gunslinger" in his later years like Favre is. He was still able to read the field and make great accurate passes, but I do agree with you that JJ didn't get Marino a great running back.

    My opinion is that JJ built a great defense to play position football and count on Marino and what anemic running game he had to win games.

    Unfortunately, that didn't work so well however when we met the then Juggernaught Jaguars in the playoffs.
     
  24. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    I remember him saying that referring to his mobility and how after games he would feel it but nothing about his legs being so worn out that it was affecting his throws.

    Why do you think he even went to Minnesota and Pittsburgh to have talks?

    He would've played another year or two here.

    The man threw for 3497 yards in 1998 being handicapped with crap at WR.

    Was doing OK in 1999 before the injury. He was fine.
     
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    For how much people hated Chris Chambers, he was head and shoulders above anyone that Johnson brought in
     
  26. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Webb was the LT through the 2000 season, which means all the JJ years plus one under Wrongstedt.
    Sims was signed to a contract extension the first off season that JJ was in control. He lasted a season and a half, so IMO JJ made a foolish decision to extend him in a year the cap was tight for us, since he didn't come close to playing out that contract. That money could have went toward resigning Fryar who wanted to stay in Miami. Instead, JJ chose to sign Fred Barnett who was damaged goods, for the same kind of money Fryar could have been resigned for.
     
  27. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    The words I would use to describe Jimmy Johnson are not fit for women and children to read or hear!

    JJ killed Dan's ability to win by dummying down the offense and taking away his ability to audible.

    I too saw the show, to think this is the guy that Dan had to beg to keep from quiting, JJ is lower than dog poop imvho.
     
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  28. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Thank you, amazing how selective somepeople's memories are
     
  29. Dolphin1184

    Dolphin1184 Member

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    Jimmy Johnson should stick to advertising for Extenz and that's it.

    He:
    1. Destroyed Marino's career. Stopped him from audibling.
    2. He forced the running game down the throats... "Run, Run, Run and Punt" with the likes of John Avery (of XFL fame), Kareem Abdul Jabbar, J.J. Johnson, Cecil "DA DIESEL" Collins (of jailbird fame). Before Ricky Williams, we had no concept of what a running back is.
    3. He built an OVERRATED defense that had disappointed at the end every single season.
    4. 62-7 That number will never be forgotten.
    5. Started the whole downfall that began with Wanny.
     
  30. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    How is this for a selective memory. JJ sat on national TV and bashed Shula to the point that all of Miami boo'ed Don Shula in his last appearance at Joe Robbie Stadium. JJ's famous words were "With that quarterback and the money they have spent in free agency, there is no way that they should not be in the Superbowl."

    JJ road in on the white horse and did absolutley nothing in terms of the postseason. It's one thing to just take a job when it became available. JJ made certain it was available when he sat in front of a camera and bashed Don Shula. JJ knew his status in that city. He knew it was his job for the taking when Shula was gone. Phin fans were just suckers enough to take the bait.

    Hindsight being 20/20 the only place the Dolphins were going was as far as Marino's arm was going to take them. And THAT speaks for Johnson's and Shula's final years in coaching.
     
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  31. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    JJ was a tremendous football coach.
     
  32. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    He gave us a very good Defense, but their best years were wasted because he never got good WRs except for OJ.

    And yes Marino was a shell of his former self at this point.

    Yatil Green and his blown out legs.:lol:
     
  33. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    I heard his comments and from a head coaches point of view I can see where he "thought" he was making the right choice by cutting Dan. Dan and Brett are completely different examples though. The Vikings owe Brett no amount of loyalty the way the Dolphins did Dan. We were NOT a superbowl team when JJ took over and Dan deserved to go out when he said it was time. The organization owed him atleast that.
     
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  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Actually, if you look at it, Jimmie Johnson pushed out the two Dolphins modern Icons, Don Shula and Dan Marino, then under delivered for 4 seasons, with season #3 including wishy washy "unretirement".

    JJ was imho the greatest College to NFL head coach of the modern era, his Titles with the Hurricanes and Cowboys will be tough to duplicate.

    For the Dolphins though, he was just the Franchises third best coach after Shula and Wanny, his 36 wins to 28 losses mark was hardly insipiring, and he produced two of the worst playoff defeats in Dolphins history.

    Wanny went 42-31 in miami, I really hope Sparano is around long enough to put both of these Characters time in Miami to bed as a mediocre time in Dolphins Football history.
     
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  35. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box


    Why do you think he did not end up signing with those teams and what happened in 1999? Players can be ok one season and totally done the next..

    He was done, and admits it when asked. I've herd him say it on the radio more than a few times. He felt he could play but in the end he knew his legs were not the same.

    There was never anything mobile about Marino. His legs were tired and it had a huge effect on his quick release, which was why Marino was so good for so long. That's why we saw more and more Int's from him. I'm talking about the throws where he would dare a Db to try and pick it off.
     
  36. krypto

    krypto Banned

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    Why are you guys losing sleep over something that cannot and will never be proven? No one knows what went on behind closed doors. Stop speculating just to speculate. I've met Marino numerous times at Cleveland Clinic and let me tell you something, no matter how "great" he was on the field, seeing his true personality has made me not even acknowledge him when talking about the all-time greats.
     
  37. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    The biggest problem with JJ as a coach is his inability to adjust his scheme to the talent on offense. JJ tried to implement the style that was successful in Dallas. Unfortunately, Miami didn't have a RB the equivalent of Emmit Smith or a WR with the talent of Michael Irvin. Marino was every bit as good as Troy Aikman.

    I think Shula said it best in an interview when he said something to the effect of...when Miami had Griese, Csonka and company they had a style, grind it out. But when he saw the talent he had in Marino he knew he had to adjust to a different style which was ATTACK!

    Shula got that as a coach it was imperative to adjust his style to get the most out of the talent he had. Whereas, JJ tried to get players to fit his style...hence, not taking advantage of players strengths or players trying to do more than their talent allows.
     
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  38. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    Johnson.........the ego that wasted a decade of professional football in Miami. Jimmy should come out and talk about his ****ty moves like who needs Irving Fryar or letting Byars go.
     
  39. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Two things...I agree that Dan certainly looked like he'd spent 17 yrs in the league during that last year. However, don't let the Jax fiasco define even Marino's last season....Secondly, JJ did not, in any way or fashion, give Marino anything in the form of receivers or any kind of run game, particularly that last year. Bottom line, Marino still carried the Fins that last season as he did most of his career, along with a developing D to any success we may have had....

    Then JJ quit on us as well....
     
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  40. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Two things you keep your liver spotted hands off my mother she's a saint! Then you sit down and write me and dale a $10,000 check!
     

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