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Thoughts on the Dolphins Bengals Game

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, we proved one thing today- those of you who said Tunsil is simply average showed how little you know about football or linemen. We went from completely dominating every facet of the game to Tannehill running for his life, making bad decisions in the pocket and watching our 5-1 start disappear. All because of a single injury that we couldn't overcome.

    The Bengals were smart- without our starting left tackle, guard or center, they overloaded that side of the field and sent ridiculous pressure the entire second half. I honestly don't believe that the Bengals were going to be able to find the end zone again....Miami's D was playing too stout and it was going to take a miracle for them to make up those last seven points.

    There's not much more to say...today was gut-wrenching in a game we dominated. The worst part is that if Tannehill would have just taken sacks on both those pick-six plays, we likely still won the game. You can't fault the guy 100% with no protection but it doesn't make me feel any better.

    Get well soon Laremy Tunsil....we desperately need you on the field.
     
  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Not much more to say? We crapped the bed! You do NOT lose a game like that, leading 17 at halftime when the defense is playing well.

    Offense gave up 14 points (thanks Tannehill) and special teams accounted for 7 of our points, so what does that mean? Offense was responsible for -4 total points!! When your offense GIVES the opponents points, the only way to win the game is if your defense scores points. Sorry, but that's not a winning strategy.

    This could be a pivotal game for Gase + Tannehill.. we'll see.
     
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  3. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    This is the type of game that proves to me that we need to find a different quarterback. Not saying Tannehill is horrible because statistically he isn’t but I do not believe he is ever going to more than a care taker QB who is to have perfection around him to be good. He is never going to carry the team or inspire the player around him to over achieve. Every year teams have injuries and you have to adapt.

    Tannehill and Gase seem to be able to adapt. Gase play calling blows my mind on three drives today we had 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2 and we live up in shotgun and pass long and miss. Yet on 2-20 you run the ball.

    If we can’t get 1-2 yards with a big package from our QB or Hall of Fame calibar Running back than there is a serious problem with this team.

    The defense played well enough to win but we **** the bed on offense again. Tannehill should be traded if possible because he’s not worth a big contract extension at all, and Gase has lost my confidence over the last few weeks. I Just think this tandem is going to work out and will be the downfall of both men’s NFL careers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  4. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Three is a critical number. Once an offensive line loses three starters the offense can't function anymore. One you can compensate. Two you can overcome. Three it's over unless one of your backups is starting quality.
     
  5. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Yes theee is a huge number of offensive starters to lose I’ll give you that. But to overcome that Gase should have been putting Tannehill in the shotgun which bus you a few seconds to find someone, but instead we mostly he was directly under the center. And got pressured and threw two horrible passes that got intercepted. He should know better with a lead or tied to take the sack.
     
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  6. ripper1961

    ripper1961 Active Member

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    I'm just crying in my beer.
     
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  7. Slk018

    Slk018 Member

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    Honestly Dude it doesn’t matter if tunsil gets healthy. We have one of the 3 worst qbs in the nfl. He is completely lost out there he has zero awareness he’s a robot that can’t move. And Gase is a fraud. 3rd and inches running game rolling run the damn ball! Get got bailed out at the half with grants td after he refuses to run in 3rd and 2 ms make them use a time out. I know he said handicapped with a one read robot that can’t play football. So run the ball! Tannehill got us 10 points and he have up 14 on a bad defense. The guy cannot play. Every week on a third and short he launches it deep incomplete. He only runs if it’s designed run. Dalton wasn’t so much better wow. Watching dalton strike over the middle and throw under pressure and even run for yards. This team may beat some horrid teams Bc the defense is really good and gets turnovers and scores on special teams. If anyone still thinks Ryan Tannehill is an nfl qb, you’re blind. Gase dumbs it doen screens and dump offs to help him. But, the guy is horrid. He isn’t just below average wint be great he is one of the worst starters in the league. He can’t lead, he has no awareness, he can’t attack, he’s a deer in headlights, very very low football iq. Wish we could have traded up for darnold or baker. Tannehill is and always has been a loser l. Never great at any level. Franchise killer
     
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  8. Harleydude666

    Harleydude666 Active Member

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    Excuse me while a take a dump on my living room floor
     
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  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    It's not three offensive players. It's three offensive line starters. You don't overcome that. You don't scheme your way out of that. You can't chip three players every play. It's not particular to the dolphins. It's a general rule of thumb for the nfl. Taught to me by a bookie when I was a wee lad. You're right we could have escaped with a win if we didn't turn the ball over but I made the point in regards to the season. If tunsil is out for some length of time this season is over
     
  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    In 5 wide shotgun, Tannehill was dropped in almost under 2 seconds.
     
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  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To be more precise, Tannehill crapped the bed after the offensive line threw the whole damn bed out the window. And I'm sorry, you can't scheme on the fly for "how do we replace the offensive player that's basically holding everything together on the left side of our line?" There is no answer for that. And it's so darn frustrating because that's the 2nd time in three years O linemen injuries let the Bengals win against a more talented overall Dolphins team.
     
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  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That was the dumbest freaking play- I expected the sack before we even snapped the ball.
     
  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Without a quick trade or some serious stepping up this coming week , I agree. We can probably win 7-8 more with Tunsil or maybe 1-2 without him.
     
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  14. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah the OL was porous, but did you see how often Tannehill just stood there and took the sack without even attempting to get away? And don't forget the bad decisions that led to the pick 6's (even if only one counted on the stat sheet). A better QB, not even elite, would have easily preserved the 17-0 lead we had in the 3rd quarter.

    There's no question our OL has been bad for who knows how long, but don't let it occlude the obvious now: Tannehill is not the answer.
     
  15. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Keep drinking it gets better
     
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  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There was one particular play (I believe in the 3rd quarter) where a defender blew past Young in less than a second. Tannehill was scanning the left hash, came back to his right (which means, he's now directly facing the incoming sack) and it took him probably a half second to see the pressure two steps away.

    Now granted, it was too late to do much other than a fancy spin move or a stiff arm...and we know RT has neither of those tools. Instead he does the unthinkable.....he flinches and closes his eyes! I have the game saved on DVR so I'll go back and take a photo with my phone. I absolutely couldn't believe it though- the camera zoomed right in on him taking the sack and his whole body tenses up as his eyes close. The defender shouldn't have even tackled him....he should have just stripped the ball and headed down the field since Tannehill was 100% defenseless. And remember, this was a play he saw coming with barely enough time to react...

    On the interceptions for TD's- I agree with you...they were both picks since his arm was coming forward when he fumbled the ball on the 2nd one. The first hit an offensive lineman in the helmet, so there's no possible way to blame that on anyone but Tannehill. On the 2nd, I watched that play in slo-mo probably ten times to see....does he flinch and close his eyes again with sudden contact? Yup, he sure did...he's throwing a freaking NFL pass with his eyes closed.

    When Gase sees the tape, I think he'll come to the same instant realization as I did...Tannehill is not the guy. He's way too panicky in the pocket and way too lethargic on the sideline; he's just not a winning quarterback AS-IS. Get the kid in therapy this off-season and hopefully he can figure some stuff out because this isn't a football thing- he has all that stuff down cold. But somehow he's still not ready for the mental aspect of the NFL pocket.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
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  17. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    It's really that simple. A 30 yr old QB...and excuses are still being made. Will excuses still be made when he's 35? 40?
     
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  18. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You really think so? Gase is a control freak and Tannehill-type personalities are perfect for him. I doubt Gase thinks he's made a mistake at QB. It would impress me though if Gase does a 180. I mean.. whatever we think Ross' opinion is all that counts, and barring a massive collapse I'm sure Gase is here next year (Ross has said how many times he wants to be patient?) so I sure hope he realizes he needs a better QB and uses what might be a decent pick (probably 10-15 as usual.. just outside where we need it) on one.
     
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  19. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Losing Tunsil was huge! Once that happened that was it. Gase had no answer on how to deal with it either. I don't know why we didn't just play the short game. Seems like we tried and still couldn't get time. I don't wanna go down a Tannehill rabbit hole, but that is the difference between a QB like him and an elite QB like Aaron Rodgers (for example). Great QB's just find a way to make it happen when it matters the most no matter what the circumstances are. I've been a big Tannehill supporter for a lot of years, but this was bad today. I mean....We had a sexy lead going into the fourth and we let dumb things happen over and over. I actually sat in my front yard and listened to the final drive where the game was still in hand and that Hubbard kid came up with the INT TD. I remember thinking "Ok RT, this is your chance to take us down the field and win this game. Three minutes and change left, with all three timeouts and that happens. That is Ryan Tannehill and his career in a nutshell. Next week against the Bears I bet he plays great! I bet he throws 2-3 TD's and we make a game out of it with them. That's the thing, he'll bounce back, but as soon as I become a believer he reverts to games like this. NOw, i'm not putting all of this on him, but the offense was trash today aside from a few drives in the first half and when the game got tight, we folded under the pressure. It's early in the season still and we are 3-2 so i'll wait to panic. We did have this game today in hand and blew it. How serious is the Tunsil injury? That is absolutely crucial at this point. Can't lose that guy or it will be a long year. Tannehill isn't skilled enough to overcome something like that. Not many QB's are.
     
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  20. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I just see no point in bringing in a rookie qb when the line is as bad as it is. Thill clearly is not looking like the solution but i still dont think hes the biggest problem.
     
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  21. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Injuries have caused our team to unravel. It happens to the best of them, even teams that are much better than us. There is not much we can do because we have to play with what we have. Today we could have been successful, but we compounded the situation with stupid mistakes like personal foul penalties, failing to protect the football, and giving up easy points. Our coaching, RT, and our team depth are not good enough to overcome these things, so really we got what we deserve. This game was disappointing. However, it's only the beginning of QTR 2. We have 2 home games and can get things back on track if we learn to play smart. The big question is, will we?
     
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  22. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Hey I stand by what I said pre-season that we judge only after this season's over.. but the signs are pointing in the wrong direction. And for me the worst outcome is something around 8-8 so that's what I'm fearing right now.
     
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  23. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Get rid of Tannehill...you would have about $15-20 mil extra in the off-season to buy the top 2 or 3 offensive linemen available in free agency. Problem solved.
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I mean...how do you coach a QB to keep his eyes open? To me, that says he completely shuts down under pressure with no way to "be fixed". Maybe RT doesn't get benched this week but I think in Gase's mind, once he sees the eyes close and the body tense on that 1st sack, it will be the writing on the wall that we need a different long-term answer.

    And for the record, I'm rooting for the kid so freaking hard. I want him to be the guy as much as anyone. You can't quit on the field in any position though and expect to last long in the league. We just happened to get the perfect camera angle today to highlight that.

    It's not vision or hearing....it's his nerves and psyching himself out.
     
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  25. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    That approach did not work to well this offseason.
     
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  26. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Well, that's what happens when you buy a used up 35 yr old guard and an average center.

    For $15-20 mil, you can get a couple of young, proven studs. Fix the oline for the next 4-5 years, and develop your rookie 1st round QB with all these speedy weapons.
     
  27. Slk018

    Slk018 Member

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    No he is horrible. One of the worst situational qbs I’ve ever seen. It’s like s robot is out there who doesn’t know the score or down and distance. Horrid player.
     
  28. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Except at this point I dont see one thats worth it coming out next year. Maybe one of them will step up but havent seen it yet. Dont draft one just to say did.
     
  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    OK.. so any theories on why Tannehill isn't continuing the form that he left off with in 2016? We haven't seen any game from him approaching that San Diego game, SF game or Arizona game. I mean by now we should have seen not just one such game but a few.

    The guy is physically healthy. So what happened mentally?
     
  30. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Rust? I have no idea. Pressure? I think we all agree he is not the best under pressure.
     
  31. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    It was a fluke and he played above his level and has now fallen to regression. That's the easiest. Bad QBs sometimes put together a solid stretch before they come back to earth. Look at Fitzmagic.
     
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  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe I mis-stated...I think that's been his main problem his entire career. He's never been good under pressure to start games and only seems to overcome it when things are rolling his way. He has always been a different player once he gets comfortable. I think you can "coach away" some of that anxiety with <drum roll> quick passes and a strong run game...let others help him build confidence and get that momentum.

    Again, I think Tannehill is a phenomenal QB on par with many of the greats ability-wise, but I also think his pocket awareness and poise under pressure is among the worst we've ever had. In games where everything goes right (like the 1st half today) the poise doesn't matter as much, but it sure did in the 2nd half when he started having doubts. Interestingly enough, the sack with his eyes closed came BEFORE the two pick-six's. I think he knew he was without Tunsil and just psyched himself out of the game thinking about trying to escape pressure (which we all know is the worst part of his game).

    If you look back, I think that same pattern has been on tape for six years now. We just never knew what it was. Think back to the back-to-back safety games, the contests with back to back strip sacks, etc. Our boy has always been a perfectionist and I think it eats him up inside to be flawed. I think it's always been a mental thing since day one.
     
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  33. ripper1961

    ripper1961 Active Member

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    I am.
     
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  34. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I missed most of the first half...got to the sports bar when Grant returned the punt for the TD and I was elated and felt we were going to put our foot on Cincinnati's neck. Maybe I should've just stayed home, huh? LOL But in all seriousness...

    As was pointed out, when you lose THREE starting offensive linemen, you're in trouble...DESPERATE trouble, but we seemed to be overcoming it in the first half. It looks as if at halftime, Marvin Lewis read Newt Gingrich's book, "Understanding Trump" in which Gingrich illustrates the military strategy penned by retired Air Force Colonel John Boyd of "OODA Loop". For those not familiar with the doctrine, OODA Loop stands for

    Observe
    Orient
    Decide
    Act
    Then quickly LOOP back to observe

    Although Miami's offense was anemic the first half, the piece mealed offensive line was apparently doing a good enough job in protecting Tannehill. Lewis OBSERVED was was happening, ORIENTED himself to the facts and circumstances surrounding him and his team, DECIDED on a plan and the ACTED on it. The second half, the portion of the game I saw, Tannehill was running for his life. The piece mealed section of the offensive line was being overloaded and was unable to handle the rush. This resulted in Tannehill taking sacks or the offensive line to be penalized for holding, which backed the Dolphins up into 2nd and 3rd & long situations. Gase didn't OODA Loop because if he had, he would have changed his entire offensive strategy.

    We all know I'm a HUGE proponent on running the football. Even if you don't have success, keep running it. When you force the defense to keep 7 or even 8 in the box to contain the run, big passing plays will come. Gase should have called for an additional 2 TE package, with a full back and hand the ball off to Gore. It's no secret that playing defense is more fatiguing than playing offense. The defense must REACT to the offense and is playing "catch up". Had Gase altered his strategy to an in your face, smash mouth football with extra TE's for blocking, the Bengal's defense would have fatigued, the clock would have become our ally and big plays would have presented themselves. Sadly, this is not how Adam Gase calls a game.

    Adam Gase is a proponent of getting the ball into the hands of playmakers and giving them an opportunity to make plays, hence many of the bubble or standard screen plays. Gase wants to get the ball into the hands of players like Stills, Wilson, Gore and Drake and let them use the athleticism to make the play. This calls for a lot of trust that your players are able to execute the plays called and having faith that they are able to make the plays you are entrusting them to make. The problem though is that this can be easily sniffed out after a while and no matter how athletically gifted your players are, they can only avoid a swarm of defenders for so long. Remember the Wildcat and how effective it was the first year Sparano used it? After a while, teams prepared for it and were able to shut it down.

    Athletically, our STARTING offensive line (in my opinion) is as good as they come and I do feel that once they are back in the line-up, Gore and Drake will be able to be effective in the ground game. Additionally, I don't think Tannehill will be running for his life, as he was today but if Gase doesn't OODA Loop and have the flexibility to adjust his game to the circumstances presented before him, he is putting his players in a no win situation.

    Many of you have been head hunting Tannehill. You have to remember, Tannehill is merely the Captain of the ship underway. He is following the orders of the Admiral and executing (or attempting to execute) the plays that are given to him. I lay blame for today's loss on Gase...for not implementing OODA Loop more than I do on Tannehill.
     
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  35. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be best for me personally to reserve full judgement until the end of the season regarding Tannehill. I'm not ready to say that it's time to move on, but anything less than playoffs is going to be it for me.
     
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  36. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    The admiral definitely deserves a lot of blame, but the captain we have just wasn't up to the task either and also deserves a lot of blame.

    btw.. I know the military loves acronyms but this "OODA" loop, while popular, isn't really explaining anything. I mean when does a person NOT implement it? Every single person on this planet obtains information from his sensory system (observes), attends to certain stimuli over others (orients) and makes decisions that turn into actions. It's essentially impossible NOT to do that. Gase and Tannehill did that too.. the problem lies in the decisions they made.
     
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  37. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I did not see the game but it seems everything went south after Tunsil went out with a concussion. At that point The Bengals started going after that side of the line.
     
  38. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Gase decided...acted, but never looped back to observe. That or he never re-oriented himself.
     
  39. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    This team is a bunch of losers. They are not going anywhere NEAR the playoffs. So, its fine to wait until the year is over...but if you are waiting for the playoffs, that will not happen this year. This is NOT a playoff team. NE is clearly better. So at best, we'd be looking at a wildcard. So let's look at the other teams. Division Winners: NE, Cincy or Baltimore (both way better than we are) KC, JAX.

    There is no path for Miami to the playoffs. After next week we'll be .500 so...
     
  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Did you even watch the game? Miami beat the **** out of Cinci until Tunsil got hurt. Our current starting left tackle, guard and center is a bunch of losers....the rest of the starters clearly aren't in that category.
     

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