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Thoughts on the Dolphins/Cowboys Game

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I enjoyed the game today- it was a loss nonetheless but I saw a lot of improvements on the field on both sides of the ball. Rosen was refreshing to watch and he was honestly the best QB on the field in the first half. If every catchable ball was caught in those first two quarters, we would have been leading by 17 at halftime.

    The defense played better at times as well, partially because we controlled the time of possession in the first half. The Cowboys main adjustment at halftime was realizing that Miami's receivers can beat you one on one every time yet they can't catch the football, so it made more sense to send pressure. Jesse Davis being out was a super tough blow for this young line as well....hopefully he's okay. That's where our productivity started dropping on offense.

    I'm going to keep this one short but overall, we saw some real potential today. It was a winnable game with Rosen and he'll likely earn us a couple of W's this season. It does suck that we lost but at least it was respectable considering it was the Cowboys lowest scoring game of the season. Miami was also pretty clean on penalties today as well.

    One gripe I have to bring up- that's the 2nd time this season Preston Williams caught a TD pass, had it knocked out after the fact and Flores didn't challenge. It would have been a close call either way, but when you're not using your timeouts anyway, there was zero reason not to challenge it.
     
  2. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    The story of this game in my opinion was of the opposing team’s knowing it was playing against one of the worst teams in the history of the league, and seeing if it could get away with a win without giving much effort.

    Consequently there was the mirage of the first half, in which it looked like the Dolphins had improved and were actually competitive. That was attributable to the other team’s complacency, however.

    When it became apparent at the half that Dallas would need to give at least a modicum of effort, it then did so, and won handily.
     
  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. All those sacks and tipped balls in the 2nd half came off the left guard or left tackle slot...where Jesse Davis would have been if not injured. It's very tough to ask a rookie left guard to slide out to tackle and I thought he played decent under the circumstances.

    Again though- Rosen threw a TD pass to Williams that we settled for 3 points on. Parker dropped a TD pass at the 5. Drake killed a TD drive at the 5 from not protecting the football. Plus how many other near perfect passes were dropped for big gains? That's probably 20 points we left on the field from poor effort. And if we went into halftime leading 24-10, then it's a completely different game in the 2nd half.

    Our receivers really let the team down today and possibly cost us a win. Your "story of the game" never should have been a reality if receivers did what they're paid to do.
     
  4. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I think The Guy is spot on, but there's no denying that our WR's dropped the ball in crucial situations way too many times.

    btw.. I don't think this issue can be fixed for Preston Williams and I'd just get rid of him. I totally overestimated our talent at WR earlier this year and have to re-adjust my expectations.
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    As I just said to you in another thread, it's too early to write the guy off. The big play potential is there but he deserves more than 3 games to develop. If anything, Parker and Drake made larger blunders today.
     
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  6. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    All the drops and Drake fumbling at the goal line was Rosen's fault. He just doesn't have it.
     
  7. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Absolutely, not writing him off at all (as I said in that other thread.. he has 13 games to prove he's our solution). Just saying one can't excuse his 2nd half disappearance for THIS game.
     
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  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Aah, okay...I misunderstood you then...I thought you meant to trade him now. Yeah, I'm 100% on board with a 16 game audition and I'm 100% against the 5-year tryout method we did with Parker. Either Williams shows it this season or he probably needs to go (or at least slide back in the rotation for year 2).
     
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  9. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Oh lol.. my mistake. I thought you were talking about Rosen. You meant Williams! Yeah, of course he has the rest of the season to prove this was just a "1 game" issue. All I meant was that I doubt it actually is. But sure, evaluate him after the season.
     
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  10. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

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    Liked what I saw from Rosen today. Didn't like what I saw from the skill positions and special teams though. Glad we saw more of Kenyan Drake. He seems to be the only one that can catch.
     
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  11. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Positives for me:


    1. We were competitive most of the game
    2. Rosen made some nice throws
    3. No INTs from Rosen
     
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    With Rosen, I don't think you cut/trade him next season but I do agree that he has 13 more games to prove we aren't tanking for Tua. Unless we know without a doubt he's the guy, then you have to draft Tua or Herbert.

    Personally, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see us not draft a QB next year because it's going to mean 3 more 1st rounders in 2019/2020 and still probably picking twice in the top 10. So part of my motivation for wanting Rosen to be the guy is simply outright greed...I want to trade that #1 overall pick!
     
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  13. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Rosen did just enough to make me pause and wonder what if we dont need a QB.

    Then I'd unpause and realize hes still a long way from even considering that. It's a start though.
     
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  14. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    When the quarterback starts playing like Michael Jordan did in basketball — i.e., taking over games and winning them — that’s when we won’t need one.
     
  15. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Fun little fact: one of the world's leading computer scientists is also named Michael Jordan:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_I._Jordan

    Takes some extra effort to search for statistics related research papers published by Michael Jordan. Like typing in "Michael Jordan statistics" obviously won't do it lol.
     
  16. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Positivse the Dolphins should have went in half time with the lead it was right there for the taking.
    (Drakes fumble at goal and a missed field goal.)
    Rosen could be a decent QB with a supporting cast.
     
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  17. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Forgot to add Taco got a sack in his first game as a fin. Maybe a sign of better play from him?
     
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  18. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    The drops were beyond terrible. If I was Flores, I would let them know that the draft is deep at WR, and they are all replaceable.

    Grant has looked particularly horrible. I would honestly make him inactive next week, and send him a message. If you are not gonna catch passes, we will find someone else who will.

    Drake can have his trade. How can you whine and complain all the time that you are not a starter, and then fumble when we have a chance to win? We have Walton and Laird, let's give them reps.

    I think part of this season needs to be finding out who are willing to do their jobs.

    I thought Rosen looked really good.
     
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  19. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Rosen looked promising at times. I will leave it at that. I watched some of the game and our offensive line gave him maybe one second to throw the ball if that. Constant pressure, constant harassment from Dallas. Even in the first half when Dallas was barely trying they were still getting to Rosen in a split second. It's hard to evaluate any quarterback behind an offensive line as putrid as the poo flavored buffet that we serve up every Sunday.
     
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  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    From what I read on Taco, he wasn't cut due to ability- he just took too many plays off and you never knew what you'd get from him. Being cut in the NFL sometimes fixes that though quickly so it's possible he ends up shining in Miami. And if not...oh well, we don't lose anything for trying anyway.
     
  21. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    The Drake fumble really took all the wind out the sails. That was absolutely a killer. The drops killed opportunities. Rosen played well, especially considering the circumstances. That was definitely a positive.
     
  22. Makados10

    Makados10 Active Member

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    Didn't expect to win but it was nice moving the ball in the first half. Made it a fun game to watch at least.
     
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  23. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's what happens if you needlessly and stupidly trade your best receiver.

    Stills 4 for 89 yards today. Not a bad yards per catch average...
     
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  24. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    We already had a decent QB it got us a bunch of 7-9 and 8-8 records with one outlier year in 2016. I'd like to try something different this time around maybe try for a really good QB.
     
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  25. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    I think I heard Flores say he is going to start taking his TNT wall to the games. ;-)
     
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  26. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Definitely inferior talent on the field. But that’s why dropped passes mean little, because completed passes also mean little.

    As soon as any other team gives effort, the Dolphins are toast, regardless of whether they are dropping or completing passes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
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  27. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    For any bettors on the site, I would recommend you place wagers on the Dolphins for first quarter and first half bets through the remainder of the season, because opposing teams are going to come out complacent against them, and those spreads are likely to be relatively large and leave room for games like the one we saw yesterday.

    Likewise, bet on opposing teams in second halves.
     
  28. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    if we learned anything the past three games, Jeudy and Chase Young are definitely in our radar with our first pick.

    we need a playmaker that can get to the quarterback, and we need the next Julio Jones.
     
  29. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    Are you saying that you don't think we will go QB with the 1st pick because we have Rosen?
     
  30. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    He could be saying we need a WR with that Steelers or Texans pick to go with Tua lol
     
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  31. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    There isnt a quarterback worthy of a top 10 pick in this upcoming draft. Im not hot on Tua like the rest are and im not buying the hype. He is not even the fifth best prospect coming out of Alabama.. if we draft him we are going to get stuck with Mariota 2.0 and thats definitely not a good thing. I rather take my chances at Jeudy or Young who are much closer to be a sure thing to be stars in the NFL.
     
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  32. FishOutOfWater

    FishOutOfWater Member

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    It’s probably not the popular opinion around here, but I’m beginning to agree with this thinking. I was very impressed with Rosen on Sunday, though I know one game doesn’t mean he’s going to be the franchise QB, but I liked what I saw.

    Assuming Rosen doesn’t end up sucking *** the rest of the season, I want them to build around him this offseason. If 2020 arrives, and he sucks/doesn’t improve, go for Trevor Lawrence.
     
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  33. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Its not popular opinion around here because ESPN, Todd McShay and Mel Kiper (The three bozo experts) keeps talking up Tua, they have a contract with the SEC and theyre making him out to be the next coming of Jesus.

    Tua has two out of this world receivers out there both of which will be drafted in the first round in Jeudy and Ruggs. These two... they get separation like no tandem ive ever seen before in college football, and then a running back like Najee Harris who may be a late first round pick. Not to mention some linemen they got as well like Leatherwood.. Devonta Smith and Waddle are also two very good receivers..

    Tua is to Alabama what Ken Dorsey was to Miami. He cant possibly mess it up when the talent around him is so insanely good. His advanced statistics against teams with a Top 30 defense has shown below average numbers. So yeah he has ridiculous numbers, but even I could have started for Alabama this past Saturday and record four touchdowns against Southern Miss or New Mexico State, or Duke.... the windows he throws the ball to are about 10-15 feet wide and his receivers have insane catch radius.. i am definitely going to tune in when he faces Texas A&M, LSU and Auburn. Those will be his 3 biggest tests before the playoff.

    i watch college football more than anything and im tuned in 3 games at a time usually. Tua is a stand up kid and maybe he can succeed if hes drafted in a situation like the Saints or Chargers where he can learn behind a great quarterback and then step in and take over. He is not a guy i draft to a team that is going through a hard reset. He is not Baker Mayfield, who i know isnt doing great right now in Cleveland but his leadership and personality is what cleveland needed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
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  34. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    You make some good points. I am still trying to get educated on who I like for the Dolphins and welcome all views, popular or not. On the way to work, I listen to Travis's podcasts and he really likes Tua based on his film study so that carries some weight. All I can say is if we go QB I hope we get it right. This is a big opportunity for us to finally have a situation where we aren't as polarized about who is behind center. Of course, we will find other players/positions/coaching that will divide us, LOL.
     
  35. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Whether it’s through his own individual play or from some improvement in overall team functioning, Rosen‘s performance is going to have to improve by leaps and bounds for him to become a quarterback the team can win with at a high level.

    His passer rating of 61.9 in the Cowboys game is associated with a very small probability of winning games in the NFL. If an NFL team had an average passer rating of 61.9 through a regular season, its expected record would likely be 1-15/2-14.
     
  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I know "stats guys" don't want to hear this, but if you add 2 or 3 TD passes to Rosen's stat line, he was a 100+ QBR on the day. Receivers can't drop TD passes and RB's can't fumble at the 5...Rosen did enough in that first half alone to win the ballgame. The week before, same thing...he had 2 gorgeous TD passes dropped.

    I would argue that he did more than enough this past Sunday to be considered a franchise QB prospect. Our receiving corp of three guys, however, did not. It didn't help that Gisecki was in the rotation in the 2nd half due to injury...we had three total WR's on the roster when Hurns got hurt.
     
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  37. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    “What if’s” only count if you apply the same “what if” criteria for everyone.

    And a true franchise QB isn’t going to disappear once adversity hits. Zero points in the 2nd half is NEVER to be expected from a franchise QB.

    As stated, Rosen has 13 games to prove otherwise, but right now he’s backup material.
     
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  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    But it's stupid to judge a QB on the result of the play, like you are doing when you look at the passer rating, and draw conclusions. You should be judging Rosen, or any QB, on what HE did. Did he make the right read/decision? Did he make a good throw? It doesn't matter if the receivers drop every ball that is thrown to them, that doesn't reflect poorly on the QB.
     
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  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Honestly, I feel like some of you guys didn't play any sports growing up. When you are making good plays, but your teammates constantly let you down, you don't play free and easy. You start pressing, trying to make perfect plays, and that's when mistakes hit. You get to cute with the ball, and you try to do things your wouldn't normally try to do, because the usual things aren't working. Trying to completely separate QB play, as it pertains to results, from the rest of the team, is an exercise in futility.
     
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  40. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Again compare Rosen‘s game to Daniel Jones’s. Of course that one game doesn’t mean Jones is a franchise quarterback, but that kind of performance is what we should be looking for in my opinion before we start feeling really good about Rosen.
     
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