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Time for a RE-ORG not a RE-BUILD

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by zwave21, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    You know things are bad when this is the 2nd person with orange letters says they are almost done (the other was PhinsRock). Aren't they supposed to be like the "superfans" on the board ?
     
  2. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    for what ? waterboy ? after the job he did in Jacksonville, no way....
     
  3. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Hey..I want Ireland gone...but show me the corpse before I pay for the Funeral.

    Let's revisit this when/if we are eliminated from playoff contention.

    Somebody from the Green Bay / Ted Thompson tree would be nice if they sign off on Philbin.
     
  4. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    I think we're lucky to win two of those. I think we end up winning Tampa and one of the other games - maybe one of the Jets games
     
  5. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Trust me, nothing to worry about they won't be
     
  6. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I think Alen had enough a while ago as well. Muck isn't happy either. They're not alone, there's an awful lot of folks who are tired of the way the Dolphins are doing things. I didn't even finish the game yesterday, I walked out to grab a cigar after the fumble punch.
     
    ASOT likes this.
  7. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Finally some people are beginning to see the light. I've been beating this drum for 3 years now.
     
  8. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    I only sometimes watch the games nowadays, I often flip around to see how the guys on my fantasy team are playing. I don't buy any gear. I don't come to Miami to see them live. All my enthusiasm went out the window after Saban left.

    These days I'm just happy to see the Dolphins hang in there against a good team. It's a good excuse for me to eat chips and drink beer. I don't have to scream at the TV anymore, I guess that is the silver lining.

    As for Jeff Ireland, you are correct that he had his five years, lots of cap space and some very high picks. We ought to be better, no doubt. Find me an upgrade. I don't think Miami is an attractive spot anymore for the best and the brightest in the NFL. Steve Ross has had some Al Davis-eque type moments. In other words, you're probably gonna get some unproven guy and hope for the best, like we did with Ireland.
     
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  9. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Well if they lose Thursday they are on life-support. 5 losses with another game with NE, and at Buffalo in the cold and against a rejunvenated Carolina that would mean at best 8-8.
     
  10. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Alen still sneaks into the Club Level from time to time. I do think he's very busy with everything he's got going on as well.
     
  11. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    Unknown although I believe it's about even. The real difference is film study is "voluntary" under NCAA rules and regs.

    I still remember Mickey Andrews quote about Myron Rolle, "if he spent half his time in film study as he does on classwork, he'd be an All-American".

    If you have put incentives for an NFL player to study film then he can study as a FA.
     
  12. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Watching the Dolphins has become a pretty casual event for me too. I have the Ticket this year but only because it's free. I won't pay for it next year. I've been trying for a long time with these guys. In 2007 I watched every game. I was TDY in the Army in Texas for two months of the season that year and I went to a sports bar in Dolphins gear and watched every week with the three or four other miserable Fins fans I could find there. I watched that season. I watched Jimmy Johnson waste the end of Marino's career trying to force square pegs into round holes. I watched the QB I grew up idolizing get humiliated in his postseason finale. I watched Wanny somehow not make the playoffs in 2002 with the league's best rusher and best sack guy on the same team. I watched Spielman trade a second round pick for AJ Feeley and the ensuing train wreck of 2004. I watched Nick Saban give us false hope, choose Culpepper over Brees, and then skip town. [And don't forget Ronnie Brown instead of Aaron Rodgers] I watched Cam Cameron fail forward fast with Trent Green [What can trent green do that Jay fiedler can't wanny says at what would have been the right time to get trent green a few years earlier..] and then Cleo Lemon. I watched Sparano fist pump field goals for three and a half seasons while Jeff Ireland and Bill Parcells stocked up on washed up Cowboys. All while Dan Henning lost games to Buffalo with Ricky Williams throwing red zone passes. All of that and after week 3 I allowed myself to think that maybe it was all finally over for a while. I don't know why I didn't know better.

    I'm just worn out. Life's too short to get aggravated over things like this. They're done, they'll re-org or they'll keep the luckiest GM on the planet around longer. I'll watch them if I have time. I'll talk to fans of teams who at least sometimes taste success and wonder what that's like. I only saw the first quarter or so of yesterday's game. My eleven year old daughter had a softball game. I enjoyed that much more than the Dolphins.
     
  13. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Going back to zwave's OP, I think there's one combination that was slightly overlooked. Eric DeCosta was a name mentioned in that post as a possible General Manager candidate. David Shaw was also on the Ravens' staff under Brian Billick, meaning he also was there with DeCosta. I think that might actually be a name worth following closely.

    Going by his 5 step process, let's assume that Stephen Ross has already fired Jeff Ireland, Joe Philbin, and the coaching staff. That was step 1. Step 2, let's assume Stephen Ross hires Eric DeCosta on the premise that he's a young, up-and-coming guy from a team that's had consistent talent, drafts really well, and for the most part is competitive year in and year out. Seems reasonable to me, right? DeCosta is hired and if you're Stephen Ross, you've completed steps 1 and 2. Onto step 3.

    Step 3 - Hire a head coach who has chemistry with the GM. That brings us back to David Shaw. He, like DeCosta, were both together on the Ravens staff from 2002-05. I think that jives with having at least some form of chemistry, and I could get behind that hiring if DeCosta thinks Shaw agrees philosophically with him. Shaw's ripped off a 29-5 record at Stanford following in the footsteps of Jim Harbaugh. I think it's worth hiring, and for the record, that's probably the one college coach I would consider if I were Stephen Ross. That takes you to step 4.

    Step 4 - Put together an experienced and disciplined staff. Well, coaches tend to hire guys they're familiar with. And, you're probably going to hire coordinators first off and build your staff out from there. Well, starting on the offensive side, which is Shaw's background area, he cut his teeth in the NFL with the Oakland Raiders from 1998-2001 under Jon Gruden. Shaw was on the offensive staff under then offensive coordinator Bill Callahan. Callahan, who could be a coaching casualty this offseason if Dallas cans its staff, could be a likely connection, and he's got a wealth of experience for Shaw to draw from.

    Moving onto the defensive side of the ball, we know David Shaw was with the Ravens while Rex Ryan was their coordinating their defense. Rex Ryan was considered by most to be a lame duck heading into this offseason, and if the Jets continue to struggle, the Jets may not bring him back. That's a logical connection for Shaw, who has employed a 3-4 style of defense at Stanford, much like Rex Ryan runs, and if you've followed some of my posts, I think Miami would do well to bring back the 3-4.

    AND, as a bonus, Rex Ryan and Bill Callahan were on the Jets staff together from 2008-11, where Callahan was the Jets OL Coach (a very good one at that), and Associate Head Coach. That, to me, is a pretty nice circle of General Manager, Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator, and Defensive Coordinator. 3 of the 4 - DeCosta, Shaw, and Ryan worked together, and you've had various combinations of Shaw & Callahan and Ryan & Callahan.

    I think with that, you can put together a pretty sound philosophy that filters from DeCosta and Shaw on down through Callahan and Ryan, where lines of communication are bolstered due to familiarity. There's a lot of experience to be had on both sides of the ball for David Shaw as he can draw from Callahan and Ryan. I think that certainly allows you a more clear vision of the franchise that you can take into Step 5 - trimming the fat.
     
  14. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I am not inclined to be calling for a coaching change at this point, a lot depends on how things are at the end of the season. However, Mike Shula is an interesting possibility. While I haven't been following his career closely enough to know whether he has what it takes to be a successful head coach, the family history and pedigree are certainly there. He would be worthy of a serious look-see.
     
  15. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    Ronin: Love the feedback. I def did overlook that combo. Mainly I am always hesitant with College Coaches making the jump. But, Shaw seems to be from a different mold very concise and even kieled. But, his teams play with no fear and a solid balance. I love DeCosta and think he would be a great GM candidate mainly because of his time from the Ravens which leaves him with a bevy of coaching connections that could pair him with. I do though have to disagree with you on the coordinatos. I'll start with Callahan. I would like to avoid another OC whose made his living off of coaching Oline. But, Callahan has a better track record than a Sparano when it comes to success on that side of the ball. Still, would like to see Shaw implement an OC that he has experience with recently rather than back in the day. Regardless I'd like to see Shaw bring with him his current OC Mike Bloomgren. Reason being the guy has NFL experience and succeeds with Line play and Running attack. That paired with Shaw's expertise in QB play and the passing game together they could bring both up to speed. Rex Ryan btw isn't coming to Miami. First off, I don't think he is leaving NY. What he has done with that team this year is damn impressive. Don't get me wrong I would snatch him or his brother up in a heartbeat cause the guys know how to coach defense schematically and put their playmakers in situation to be difference makers. I do want us to bring back a 3-4 scheme. Ideally, resign Solai as our nose and if we can Starks too but Odrick has made him expendable with his recent play. That way we could play Jordan at his natural position of 3-4 LB and have Wake on the other side still with his hand in the dirt. Help us set the edge better and would possibly help Ellerbe get more comfortable and back to his 3-4 roots.
     
  16. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I am neither hot or cold on Philbin. I think Ross hiring a GM who can actually select high quality talent is what is needed most right now. If this new GM wants to retain Philbin and see how he does in 2014, I would have no problem with that. Yet if the new GM wanted to come in and hire his own HC, I would have no problem with that either.

    The major issue with the Dolphins is the lack of quality talent on the roster and that is Ireland's fault. Hopefully once the talent is upgraded on the roster, the HC, whether it is Philbin or not, will finally be able to provide the coaching which will get this team to the next level.
     
  17. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    In the same sense, you cannot avoid making a change because you are afraid the next guy will not be as good. The fact is, there aren't any good GM candidates that are experienced who are currently available. If you make a change, you are going to have to bring in someone who will be a first timer at the job, or else you are just retreading a guy. For example, I personally wouldn't want Bill Polian anywhere near the Dolphins. He was good years ago, but there are things in the game today that he doesn't seem to have a grasp on, and he's not a guy who will embrace the use of advanced analytics to help him make sound decisions.
     
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  18. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    I wanted either J Gruden or Chudzinski when they hired Philbin, but I'm alright with Philbin getting another year. However, IF the change is made I hope they make a SERIOUS run at Jay Gruden for HC. The guy knows football and has head coaching experience (granted, it's arena football, but still). He will win a super bowl as a head coach and it should as the head motherf*cking coach of the Miami Dolphins.
     
  19. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    The only way I'm alright with Philbin getting another year is if he fires Mike Sherman, Jim Turner and maybe Zac Taylor.

    Turner must go, it's simple.

    Sherman should go.

    Taylor can go.

    I think Tannehill needs new voices in his head. I also think we need better playcalling. Turner is simply out of his depth.

    I'm not crazy about Kevin Coyle either. I think the staff is rubbish.

    If someone tells Philbin he has to blow out the offensive staff and he balks I fire him as well. I'm sick of this ****.
     
    gunn34 likes this.
  20. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    If we make another coaching change, I do not want to go the assistant to head coach route again. I want someone with experience as a head coach, whether that be in the NFL or at the college level.
     
  21. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    The best case scenario IMO would be to bring in a new GM, but stick with Philbin.

    That eliminates the big problem but at the same time keeps some form of continuity.

    You can't keep changing coaches every 3 years. You need to give these guys some time.
     
  22. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I have not given up, and I'm not calling for change YET!

    I am very frustrated with this team, but will keep watching every game and every minute.

    I am starting to worry about Tannehill, I just don't see the pocket awareness you want from a QB, yes the Oline has been awful, but he never seems to sense the rush, never steps up in the pocket. Maybe I'm just spoiled from all the Marino years?
     
    gunn34 likes this.
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    From what I've seen of jay gruden, just doesn't strike me as someone I would want.
     
  24. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    Not sure why that is DJ. I got to talk to him many times while he was head coach of the Predators. He knows his sh1t. Dude has a sick football mind, loves the game, doesn't tolerate mediocrity, and can coach the hell out of his players. He will be a better head coach than his brother.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah it wasn't a very well informed statement I made, just kinda first impression type stuff, if he ever really becomes a candidate I'll go much deeper, there were some things that I wasn't feelin in the hard knock stuff..
     
  26. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    Hopefully Philbin gets this team turned around and we don't have to have that discussion any time soon.
     
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  27. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The only way I see Philbin staying with a new GM is if Ross hires Carl Peterson. Even then, Peterson may still prefer to bring in his own guy.

    Usually the new GM picks his new Head coach who then picks his new Quarterback.
     
  28. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Does Philbin even like this job?

    I'm being completely serious. Even if he wasn't particularly good, I know Sparano loved being the ehad coach of the Dolphins and fought tooth and nail to keep that job.
     
  29. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    South Florida isn't for everybody.

    I know Nick Saban's wife apparently hated every minute of living in South Florida. Personally, I'm not sure if I'd like living in South Florida to be honest with you.
     
    schmolioot likes this.
  30. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I think the most likely scenario is Philbin stays and Ireland goes. I think Philbin is VERY well regarded in the coaching community, and its obvious he has the support of Apante.
     
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  31. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I grew up in South Florida during the 70s, 80s, and 90s...and man has it changed. I lived in Lighthouse Point, which was and Im sure still is a very nice community. But, I dont know as I would choose to raise a family in South Florida.
     
  32. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sparano was also supposedly highly regarded. Coaches don't typically slam one another, unless it's Greg Schiano
     
  33. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Continuity of what though?

    The best solution IMO, is to get rid of Aponte, Ireland, and Philbin with his staff. Ross should have parted ways with Ireland when he canned Sparano. He didn't, and I think he's reaping the results of that decision.
     
  34. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know why there is so much interest in Philbin and co. staying. That's the main problem, by far right now why the team is performing like it has. Consistent unforced errors, falling apart and losing close games, and schematic errors. I'm not saying Ireland shouldn't go with them at this point, but whatever holes he is responsible for are secondary and much more survivable than the coaching has allowed.
     
  35. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ross needs to figure out what he wants this organization to be. I get he wants to win, but does he have any idea of how to go about doing that?
     
  36. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I tend to agree. I'm not an Ireland fan by any stretch, but it seems we should have enough talent to not collapse in 3 straight games and continually making the same mistakes over and over again
     
  37. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I might agree with that, but only about 50% of the way.

    Where you can't blame Ireland for, I'll put it like this, the coaching staff's inability to adapt, I can't blame the coaching staff for taking the players that Ireland signed who did not fit the scheme such as Mike Wallace....and the fact that the only true ZBS lineman we have is Mike Pouncey.

    I also think Joe is doing some things lately, if the reports are true, that are out of character for him. To me, that's a sign that the stress of the job is increasing, and he's lashing out as a way to cope. The way Joe has handled the media lately along with the report that he dressed down an assistant coach in front of the team is something that just isn't in his character. It makes me think he has a tenuous hold on things right now and may lose control of the situation soon.
     
  38. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I don't know if this should make me nervous or not, but Dawn Aponte's resume is building. She was recently named to the board of directors of USA football. The chair person of the board is Carl Peterson. Bill Parcells endorsed her for the position of team president and has stated that she is the only member of the Dolphins front office that he talks to.

    Dawn Aponte is more of a Parcells person than Jeff Ireland is.

    Now, with the story that she is aligning with Joe Philbin and has separated herself from Jeff Ireland, if there is any truth to that, it makes me wonder if she is trying to position herself to run the show here.
     
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  39. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    We could get a person who always strikes out too. You never know.

    You say we have significantly more talent, yet you want Ireland to go. Who do you think brought in that talent? It sounds like all you're against is stuff the coaching staff is responsible for.

    I think Sherman has to go the way CC went in Baltimore last year. Before the season ended.

    Tanny is worrying me too. He has no awareness.

    Aponte makes me nervous.
     
  40. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Mike Wallace is probably Jeff Ireland's biggest mistake. The run game I think is pretty well as big of a coaches issue as anything. Don't run outside zones all day if the line doesn't block those plays well(which we knew last year).
     

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