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Time to enjoy what's happening!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Sep 19, 2023.

  1. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I've never said anything like this. Not even close to anything you've written here. lol

    Hill is, of course open more than some others, the NGS show this. He's also not "always" open, and in a lot of cases he's nowhere near the most open. He's about average in regard to separation.

    You think the stat is a waste because it proves you wrong.
     
  2. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Nope. Never claimed anything about the 3-4 yards being open. YOU did when you claimed that Miami's receivers were "always open". You claimed that Tua's receivers, which Hill is, and I used him as an example because he's the best Miami receiver and for the sake of simplicity, were "always" open.
     
  3. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Basically you are saying what I am saying is correct, but wrong because I am saying it. You are saying the Dolphins receivers are never open and Tua threads a needle. No player is always open, no one said HE is always open. They have said that receivers are wide open, Miami has more the one receiver.

    It is a wasted stat because it has zero value. It actually proves me correct as you stated because WR's are open, however you claim they are not really open.
     
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  4. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    They are "always" open.... Not all of them all at the same time, but a receiver is "always" open. The screen shot I posted shows 4 of them open. According to you they are not open, we disagree on that visual.
     
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  5. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    What? Again, I've never said their receivers are "never" open. I've clearly, and multiple times at that, said that ON AVERAGE they are no more open than most other receivers. I showed you the average separation for Miami's receivers and you refuse to believe it. And I've said that sometimes they are wide open, busted coverage, etc., but ON AVERAGE, they are no more open than most other receivers. Your claim that "someone" is always open is just flat out wrong. You can't use one play to claim what you are. The NGS stats are only looking at the times the balls were thrown to them. This means that when they catch/drop/or have a bad pass thrown their way they are what the stats say they are. Hill has an AVERAGE of 3.1 yards os separation when he's the target. I showed you a large list (and there are many others) that have a greater separation distance than Tyreek. Yet they aren't having nearly the same success as Tyreek. Why? Because Tyreek is good and Tua is good. It's not, as you're trying to claim, that Tyreek is great at getting separation and that makes it easier for Tua.
     
  6. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Not one play, but OK you win. The Dolphins receivers and play designs are average and 3 yards open is not really open.
     
  7. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Dan and 25 can we go back to the OP? Otherwise you two just get a room already.
     
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  8. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Ok, maybe we’re each speaking a different language and we don’t understand each other. Let me see if I can break this down.

    I believe you’re saying that the Dolphin’s receivers are more open the majority of the time than the majority of receivers on the majority of the other NFL teams. Is that correct? This sounds, to me, like what you are saying.

    What I’m saying is that this can’t be more wrong. I’m saying this because the average separation of all the Dolphin’s receivers is at, or below, what the average separation is for all other receivers. The Dolphin’s best receiver, Tyreek Hill, gets less separation than about 25-30 other receivers. The other Dolphin’s receivers get even less. In 2022, the average separation for an NFL receiver ( I got lazy and just looked at last years totals rather than doing the math through week 3 of this season) was, believe it or not, 3.1 yards. Which is exactly what Tyreek is getting this year. Again, 3.1 was AVERAGE and is what Tyreek is getting this year.

    To reiterate, I’m not saying no Dolphin’s receiver is ever wide open, they are. What I am saying is that no Dolphin’s receiver is wide open more than average. And again, this is per target, so unless you believe that Tua is throwing to the more covered receiver on the overwhelming majority of his throws (which you yourself says isn’t true or how else would Tua be benefitting from these wide open receivers as you suggest) then we must conclude that Tua is not benefiting from a higher than average receiver separation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2023
  9. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    This is a 27 minute video of a guy calling himself "QB School" analyzing Tua against Denver. My personal favorite comes around 12 minutes in. Tua lets fly well before Cracraft (crossing) turns his head; Cracraft finally turns his head and the ball would have hit him in the face if he hadn't gotten his hands up. Just amazing, and the QB school guy is giggling to himself as he shows the play. He's of course incredibly impressed by Tua. He notes that Tua's footwork and "base" sometimes seem less than ideal, but it doesn't seem to keep him from throwing lasers. Anyway, you can be sure that if Tua can make himself better by improving on his footwork, he'll do the work. Really hope he can stay healthy all year and put on more amazing shows for us.



    Videos like this are above my pay grade, but I thought some of you might enjoy it. Apologies if this has already been posted.
     
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  10. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Miami’s receivers are “always open” for 3 simple reasons.

    1. McDaniel’s offense. With so much pre-snap motion, defenses are having to make adjustments on who is covering who, often to their demise.

    2. Speed. There’s no doubt about it, we have the fastest receiver corps in the league. That speed, along with pre-snap motion allows at least 1 of those receivers to be a full speed when the ball is snapped, exploiting defensive backs.

    3. Discipline. This offense has demonstrated a discipline to run each play as designed and let the play develop.

    We’ve discussed until we’ve been blue in the face about this player and that player’s talents and skills sets, but the bottom line is this is the 3 reasons why Miami’s receivers are always open.
     
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  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You just can't help but keep my name in your mouth.

    And you continue to misrepresent my position.
     
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  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    For those that are interested, my position is:

    Miami has the Dolphins,
    the greatest football team,
    they take the ball from goal to goal,
    like no one's ever seen.
    They're in the air,
    they're on the ground,
    they're always in control,
    and when you say Miami,
    you're talking super bowl!

    Cause we're the Miami Dolphins, Miami Dolphins, Miami Dolphins #1....
     
  13. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

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    Talking of discipline, it’s so refreshing to see a Dolphins team not giving up huge chunks of yards on penalties every drive.
     
  14. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    lol.. nobody misrepresents your position more than you do. You try to have everything both ways, constantly contradicting yourself. I’ve shown you actual posts to prove what I said is true. Your position has been that Tua is at most a slightly above average QB who is putting up these great stats due not to him but his surroundings, And very importantly, you haven’t deviated from that since your last flip flop no matter how many times I’ve asked you to. All that’s on record.

    I’ll ask you again right now to see if you’re willing to flip flop once more. Is Tua a slightly above average QB who is playing elite due to his surroundings or is Tua himself a well above average to elite QB? Giving you another chance at a flip flop here. I’d take it if I were you or I’ll keep pointing out you’re a Tua hater.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2023
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  15. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Brad…
    Resnor…

    Please…I’m BEGGING you both…

    ***CEASE FIRE***

    We’re kicking a$$ this season. Just flipping enjoy it!!!!
     
    resnor, dolphin25, Finatik and 2 others like this.
  16. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    First, there’s no “cease fire” when someone falsely accuses me of lying as resnor often does only for me to prove using actual quotes of his that what I said about his past positions is true. It’s really embarrassing how many times he misrepresents his own past positions.

    Second, you don’t throw tons of crap at people when Tua plays bad only to act like people shouldn’t take you to task for it as soon as Tua starts playing well.

    Finally, I’m very much enjoying the Dolphins finally being relevant again. Don’t worry about that part.
     
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  17. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Just the worst.
     
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  18. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    The anti-Tua company you keep is a lot worse, especially StaleTacos whose posts you seem to really like.
     
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  19. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Bearing in mind the title of this thread, which is to enjoy what's happening (at least until the Buffalo game!), it seems to me that Tua is the ideal QB for this offense, and this offense is ideal for Tua. Which is how it ought to be, if the coach and GM are doing their jobs well.
     
  20. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Well I am enjoying this.I see no reason to.complain about anything exceptaybe the easy schedule but then again the Bills should have lost to the stinking giants last night.
     
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  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Pound sand.

    I started the first All Positive thread for Tua.

    You took a dump in that one, also.
     
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  22. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    You made that thread sarcastically and out of spite for everyone calling out your inconsistent, goal post shifting drivel.
     
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  23. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Dude.. the "OFFICIAL All-Tua All-Positive Thread" was clearly a trolling thread in the minds of a LOT of posters, including me, whatever you say your intentions were. Right before you started that thread, you repeatedly accused TheHighExhaulted of trolling, saying he was "a condescending sarcastic prick", then decided to start a thread using the exact posting style (condescending sarcasm) you accused him of lol. The timing made it obvious it was a trolling thread, and a lot of posters saw it that way.

    Here's the thread for those who want to look back at it:
    https://thephins.com/threads/the-official-all-tua-all-positive-thread.97844/

    It was actually funny when you started that. Note my one comment on page 1 was "lol @ human interactions", which you're saying is me "taking a dump in the thread" lol. I was just laughing at human behavior, not necessarily taking a dump in the thread. However, I will gladly take a dump on it as long as you insist it's not a trolling thread. I mean seriously, who starts a thread saying you're only allowed to say positive things about Tua. Makes no sense unless there's a huge history behind it lol.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2023
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  24. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, if you guys were earnest in your disagreement, you'd handle your business via DM. But stirring up dust in otherwise good threads keeps the mods' hackles up and winds up getting the threads locked. We should pin a sh*t posting thread and every time somebody makes a personal attack or accusation - regardless of validity - it should be moved into that pinned thread. If the beef is legitimate, it can continue there and let the other thread keep going.

    Please find a way to disagree without being disagreeable if you cannot ignore one another.
     
  25. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    After so many years I lost count I think we have a legit superbowl contender and we will even be stronger when Ramsey comes back!Never seen an offence like this even with Marino because of this running game
     
  26. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Wanna know what these Tua threads have turned into? Let me illustrate.

    Miami Dolphins = The United States of America

    Tua = Joe Biden/Donald Trump

    We all know the US/Dolphins is best in the world but what’s always being argued is Tua…depending on your political persuasion, he’s Biden or Trump.

    Once your mind is made up, it doesn’t matter.
     
  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    That analogy doesn't work for me. First, I don't vote. Second, I don't like either President. Third, my mind wasn't made up. It was always based on performance, so the first 2 years I was getting close to saying we made a mistake with Tua and made it contingent on year 3 performance (based on stats of many elite QBs' years 3-4). And fourth, the Dolphins are new SB contenders while the US has been a superpower a long time and is now somewhat in decline — we're living more off of mistakes of others (Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Xi's return to a state run economy) than great moves on our part.
     
  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    This is the best political discussion ever! I also do not care for either president- is that really the best two candidates in the entire United States? I mean, really?!?

    With that said, we're not allowed to have political discussions here because it always gets way too heated. So we should probably switch gears and stick to football.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2023
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  29. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's called narrow-minded thinking and its a sure-fire way to avoid growing in life or ever achieving anything that matters. As soon as you say that half the people's opinions don't matter, you've already lost whatever you think you're arguing.
     
  30. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    If you don't vote you don't get a say. Otherwise it's just postering based on others actions. The people who don't vote usually complain the most but do nothing to help make change. I vote for the Dolphins to win the Superbowl.
     
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  31. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    I'd definitely say Chris Grier has built back better and Tua has made the Dolphins great again.
     
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  32. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    That awesome. Very punny.
     
  33. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's also a terrible analogy. This is football, not politics. Results are game scores and easily quantifiable stats, not how incredible complex policies can be represented by some pundit. I know from the past Pofo forum that danmarino and I disagree about most political ideals. And, just as a completely random example based no way on any specific posters or situations, if I thought that a random right handed Tahitian QB was too strong armed to play in the NFL, incessantly posted my opinion about this, misconstrued statements from former players about what a timing offense was, and goal post moved pretty much any specific performance target that i used to prove my argument then I would be wrong, and if he didn't, he would be right.

    And, I wouldn't be wrong like danmarino was in pofo :tongue2:, where there was no real tangible proof, as the debate was mostly opinion, and we would be looking to Congress to provide proof. It's football, and we have simple proof provided by games. Danmarino would have every right to bring up how wrong I was until I said, "Yep you were right, that random right handed Tahitian QB isn't too strong armed to play in the NFL, and leading almost every important QB stat 5 games in after doing it for the year last year is good proof of him not sucking." If I said, "I always said he could be average to good", and there were posts detailing this as another goalpost move, then I should be called out for it as well.


    My point is the argument has been beyond absurd for a while and it's time to admit you (you all know who you are) were wrong and stop trying being a victim who is being bullied when people mention your past un-disavowed (double negative math works) arguments, or I hope receipts keep getting pulled, and other arguments keep morphing into receipt pulling. I am here for the :deadhorse:. Do you really want to be a Collin Cowherd? We are all better than that.
     
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  34. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    STOP THE COUNT
     
  35. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    danmarino likes this.
  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It's a great analogy because we're all Miami Dolphins fans yet some folks here have been arguing for years just for the sake of wanting someone to say, "I was wrong, you were right."

    Has that ever happened in the history of sports forums? Probably not. So why keep any of this going? Why tell someone on the internet that they're wrong and they have to believe what you believe?

    I could see if this was a website for something that matters- curing cancer or peace in the Middle East. But it's a football forum where we all have the exact same opinion on the team we root for. Nobody should get called out for anything because that's not how discussions work.

    If you disagree with the analogy, then.....you disagree. But it may be why you've been fighting for years over something as silly as whether Tua can be a decent NFL quarterback or not. If everyone would just let it go, then the topic no longer matters and we can get back to talking about how the Dolphins are leading the NFL in just about every offensive category that matters.

    I get it, you strongly believe your opinion is right. Others do as well. And everyone is saying that their opinion is twisted somehow. This can't end until someone realizes that there's absolutely no reason to spend years arguing over it in the first place.

    You could be the bigger person and say that you don't want to argue anymore. Others could be the bigger person as well. That brings folks together and puts this to rest...as soon as someone decides to be the adult in the room.

    Wouldn't it be nice, to just log in and say, "Hey guys look, the Dolphins won again!" And everyone else says, "Yeah, this is great!" We currently have the best offense in the history of the sport...do you think anyone wants to talk about who said what years ago? They really don't...you really don't. So why keep that narrative going? I honestly don't know what you're even arguing with Dan and others about, because it doesn't matter. The vast majority of us just skip past that stuff to talk about the game.

    I'll give all of you some friendly advice; just let this go. Nobody ever wins a fight on the internet...it's impossible. But there is a very easy way to end them and it's to focus on the present instead of the past.

    I love this forum, and I have a lot of respect for everyone here. But I really hate this senseless stuff because it divides us when we have every reason to be celebrating together.
     
  37. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    One flaw in your plan KeyFin: we're humans! lol.

    The problem is slowly solving itself anyway. As long as Tua plays great it shuts up the haters. I'm loving this season in more ways than one.
     
  38. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    The good ol' PoFo days. lol

    Where's FinD when we need him??!!


    (BTW, Tua is LEFT handed... :knucks: )
     
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  39. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The threads with the most activity for the last few years in the mains are those about Tua. People care, and cared a lot. It seems like you are questioning why message boards, or maybe just debate exist, so why are you posting when debate is so popular? Not saying you shouldn't, just not seeing why you do if you feel that debate is pointless, or somehow detrimental to fandom. And, yes. If I was not clear, lots of people care about what was said before in debates. If you want a more pure Dolphins discussion, the club doesn't put up with the more silly takes. Which leads to way less receipts and generally more respectful conversation. I like both.

    There were a lot of claims made, a lot of opinions about what the future would hold. That future is now the past and present, so we can see who was right and who was wrong. Some of those that were wrong are not admitting it, or just lying about what they said. That's the only analogy to politics that works, and that only works if you actually believe that one side is right or wrong in American politics, or that there are only two sides. Which means that by saying previous opinions on Tua's performance shouldn't be called wrong when they are, you are the one that is turning this into a political style debate. Not those that want reality to be acknowledged. All I am hearing is "You think Tua is playing like a top QB, well, that's just like your opinion man. you know like politics". Nope, stats aren't opinionated. And, for the record, what is posted here does not impact my enjoyment of the Dolphins season. Why would it?

    If being called out for being wrong while refusing to acknowledge it seems mean to someone... I don't know what to tell them. Life must be tough with lots of meanness and no one understanding. Good luck, but I will not waste sympathy for that when there are others far more deserving of it. Oh well. I will try to hold back my contempt I guess. Also, for the record, (it's a message board, everything is for the record) I can celebrate with people that are wrong too. Hopefully, we all can. I am also often wrong and don't always get that I am when I should. But, I'd like to think when the stats are obvious I can acknowledge it.
     
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  40. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I KNOW! IT WAS A TOTALLY RANDOM EXAMPLE AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH TUA.

    I don't know about FinD. Hopefully, eating good vegan food on his animal sanctuary farm cheering for Tua.
     
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