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Time to enjoy what's happening!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Sep 19, 2023.

  1. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    In those immortal words of Regnial Denny "CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG". And be civil. Even when we know they're wrong.
     
  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    You have 2,200 posts here. I have just over 10k. You're saying that nobody could go back through our 12,000 posts to find one thing that we believe today that we didn't believe last year? Or that we didn't play both sides of the fence at times?

    Come on man, you're better than that.

    For every post you can find of Resnor's to support what you're saying, there's a post on the other side of the fence. Or dead on the middle of the fence. Or somewhere else entirely. That should tell you that his thoughts are evolving and he doesn't have a conclusion yet. Calling him a liar because you can find the opposite of something he posted is unfair...because again, you can do that with everyone here.
     
  3. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    There were independents last cycle. Other Partys. You could have wrote a name in. If you don't vote you don't get a say. After you vote for RFK Jr. (another wackadoodle along the Biden Trump lines) then you get to have an opinion. Vote who you want and if enough people vote for someone else like a 3rd party maybe the machine will take notice and make changes. I doubt it but it could happen. Kinda like the Eagles winning this week. They aren't going to but there's a shot.
     
  4. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Not sure why you're missing the point...... I can't explain it any better.
     
  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    People can post all the hate they want, and if they cross a line then they get removed from the site. More power to them.

    But the only way to legitimize their point of view is to argue it with them over and over and over again. We've had a history of that happening here- who was the guy who hated Tannehill so much? I have him blocked so I don't know if he's still here. That was also a three to five year argument and it accomplished nothing. You know who I'm talking about- the one who wanted to show his his proprietary metrics. I still think that was one of Dirty Landry's alter egos.

    If someone thinks that Tua is average.....well, okay. I don't agree with them but at the same time, I'm not going to put any energy into arguing the point past maybe a post or two. For the Tua stuff, he's breaking NFL records and on pace to be one of the best QB's ever for a single season. If people consider that average, well, LOL.

    I get why you're upset, I really do. But I feel like several of you are being manipulated into an argument that just has no end. Resnor has asked for peace...he doesn't want to argue anymore. Just let it go.
     
  6. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    KeyFin, you still don't get it.
     
  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Because I don't feel like I'm missing the point at all. You guys like quoting others- how many here have asked in the past few weeks, "Can't we just stop this bickering?" I can think of 5 off the top of my head.

    The Dolphins are on a historic run. This is a great time to be a Dolphin fan. Nobody wants to see this constant bashing over what people said and who's wrong about what. It just doesn't matter.

    The thing you're missing is that this site used to easily have 20x the amount of daily posters. Why'd they stop coming? Because they're so sick and tired of every single thread turning into this. They're tired of toxic energy all over the place because both sides are always wrong when they let this sort of thing drag out for weeks, months, and years. It's in every main thread...someone is a liar, someone is stupid. And it just gets so old.

    Again, historic season....tons of reasons to be happy. You are better than this. You don't need an "enemy" to enjoy this season. Just let it go already.
     
    ExplosionsInDaSky likes this.
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Nope, I don't get why people can't forgive, forget, and just live in the present. It's like Resnor threw a flaming bag of poo on your front porch or something.
     
    ExplosionsInDaSky likes this.
  9. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I did that one time to someone I didn't like.
     
    Hooligan and KeyFin like this.
  10. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    First, these arguments DO accomplish something. How much goalpost moving was done last year vs. this year? Much less this year. This is in large part because it's been beaten into anti-Tua posters that they can't act like they're not moving goalposts and get away with it. You're wrong about debates on the internet not being "won" or not influencing people's positions.

    Second, you're now doing the same thing you suggest others shouldn't. Why aren't you letting it go? Why are you insistent on shutting me up and changing my style of posting? Double standard.

    Third, I'm going to keep calling out goalpost moving and unreasonable arguments related to Tua, so your attempt to shut me up won't work. Not sure if that convinces you to stop wasting time trying to change my posting style, but we'll see.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2023
    FinFaninBuffalo likes this.
  11. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Wait until Tua has a bad game KeyFin and see all the "told you so" posters that come back in droves.
     
    FinFaninBuffalo likes this.
  12. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    When someone posts I've never said "X" and gets a reply containing their quote saying "X"....... you don't call out the person that found the quote......
     
    cbrad likes this.
  13. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    If all three of us that have been in these debates are all disagreeing with you, have you considered the possibility that you are wrong?
     
  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Is the argument accomplishing something- or is it Tua's play that's accomplishing something? If you had to pick one, which would be the bigger factor in Resnor and others thinking Tua might just be a pretty good quarterback?

    I can see why you'd think that, but my motives here are as much for you as it is for everyone else. I see some of your posts and you get pretty heated, and that can't be good for your health long-term. I speak from personal experience having a heart attack at 42 because I couldn't let things go. In my case, it was a very rebellious teen that drove me up a wall.

    I would never tell you to shut up. You're a smart guy though and I hate seeing you upset all the time over what other people think on the Internet. It's perfectly okay to disagree- I think Matt Moore was great, nobody else thinks so. I'm not banging that drum though because I'm comfortable with my opinion.

    Again, not telling you to shut up. I love your statistical analysis each week. I love when you explain the odds of something happening means it's statistically significant. But I do hate all the bickering on the site over the same topic in every thread. It's just pointless. That's not directed solely at you though.
     
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    You're probably right- but why should any of us care? I mean, seriously...why do people let that get under their skin so badly?

    I watch Skip Bayless on TV and literally laugh- he's such a moron and says the dumbest things. I feel no need to call and tell him that though because it won't fix his hot take stupidity.
     
  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Do I really need to spend the next hour finding a post where you said something that you now claim that you've never said? I guarantee you've said something negative about Tua that you completely forgot you posted. In my opinion, that doesn't make you a liar. It makes you human.
     
  17. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Ok, you're getting closer.
     
  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    So it's only 3 vs 1? You better do a quick fact check on that since you're proving my point right now. Either you just lied and you're a deplorable human for it (which I don't believe for a second), or you posted without thinking and made a simple error.

    Several others have asked for the bickering to stop as well. A few have done so in the past 48 hours.
     
  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    This isn't specific to resnor, but it's clear that the repeated demonstrations of goalpost moving despite massive denial is what is having the effect of reducing it. Tua was playing great last year, yet one after another goalpost was being moved. So it's not Tua's play, it's the arguments. Tua's play is reducing the amount of anti-Tua posts, but it's the repeated demonstration of goalpost moving that's reducing the amount of goalpost moving.

    I'm actually quite healthy. Never had any issues except for two nasal polyp surgeries. No other health issues ever other than some allergies. Don't need to worry about that. And it's hard to get me stressed. I have tons of things to do and after awhile you get used to multitasking.
     
  20. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Fishhead, Finatik and Two Tacos like this.
  21. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Go ahead and try. But, I'll warn you in advance. If you do find it, I'll acknowledge I was wrong. Have you seen resnor do that? Did you notice he never responded to cbrad's response that proved he said what he claimed not to say? Speaks volumes.
     
  22. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Independents are never given a fair shot, the election system is rigged in favor of the two corrupt parties.

    I have always either not voted or voted independent, and I don't hold it against anyone if they decide not to vote when both viable options are ****.

    Abstaining from voting is also a form of protest.
     
    M1NDCRlME likes this.
  23. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I was talking about your take on resnor in the recent string of posts. Just your take (1) and the responses by me, cbrad, and TheHighlyExaulted (3) about your take.
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Okay brother, argue on then! More than anything else, I hope you're right about this.
     
  25. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and that's all there was in that entire conversation the past day or so? Nobody else jumped in on any side? There wasn't anyone else who independently said to stop all the bickering?

    I'm asking because this is a lot like saying Resnor always moves the goalposts. You just said something that was untrue and didn't even realize it. A quick look back will show you though.
     
  26. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say something that was untrue, you misinterpreted what I wrote. And guess what, I explained it, I didn't deny writing it......

    If you are going to try for a gotcha, you'll need to do better.
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bottom Line, what Tua does at the position is just to fast and too nuanced for people like Nick Wright, Broussard, Cowturn, crap bayless and the haters to conceptualize.




    this is why we keep fighting for the guy, he's our qb and im damn grateful hes a freakin Ninja at the position and also the most humble guy in the league so, you dont give him his due justice then I wont stop defending his game
     
  28. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Is
    Is Tua a system quarterback? yes. Can he be an elite system QB, yes, he is one so far this season. Could he be great without this great system and elite weapons? No. That's my 2 cents.
     
  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I think that's probably right. Key thing is that he is playing like he IS elite within the system, i.e., you won't get this production from average-ish QBs or even most above average QBs with the same surrounding cast.

    For me it's just sample size preventing me from saying he is elite vs. playing elite. If he comes in #1 again in passer rating this year then he is elite as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise he might need another year of high level play, but he's getting real close to the point where I don't feel like I need to ever backtrack saying he's elite (in the right system).
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think if you protect Tua and he has enough time ( which isn’t asking for much considering) to do what only Tua can do, then the weapons can change the system can change but Tua will execute, now don’t get me wrong, the crazy stats may change but the execution will not.

    Now you’d have to be a moron to design a system that doesn’t fit this qbs elite skillset.

    So imo he’s the best pocket passer in the game and that is elite
     
  31. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    The elite skillset will be there, but if it doesn't lead to elite stats the QB isn't elite either. There are many QBs with (some) elite skillsets that can't produce elite stats even in the right system (they are missing something too important). So there's a tipping point where the system/weapons do start to matter more than for someone like Marino or Mahomes.

    But that's really not important. As long as he can consistently put up elite stats he IS elite.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well he can control his stats that relate to his position, and the stats of his weapons at the time, will be the best they can be.

    So no, being an elite Qb does not compute for me to having elite stats.

    The position has to be judged in isolation not by external factors and numbers.

    For example, if next year we sign Devante Parker, Mike Gesicki and Zeke Elliot, those three players would have their best seasons because Tua is always gonna put the ball in the right place, whatever happens after that, is determined by the weapon, not the Qb
     
  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah I disagree with that. Historically every elite QB has elite stats. It's very hard to convince someone that a QB without elite stats (especially over a career) actually is elite just due to some skillset that never translated to elite stats. At least that's the way it is if you go by how most people rank QBs.

    Would be interesting to see the experiment with Parker, Gesicki and Elliot of course.
     
  34. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    And here’s yet another thread that will be locked by the MODS.

    Absolutely SUCKS we can’t have a thread to pound our chests about how great the Dolphins are playing without it reverting back to the high school juvenile antics of stirring up old arguments.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  35. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Who is?
     
  36. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Multi-year window of an elite QB:

    upload_2023-10-19_19-53-50.png

    Not consistently elite. Why? Inconsistent supporting cast. It is true for EVERY. QB. THAT. HAS. EVER. PLAYED.
     
  37. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Pat Mahomed lost Hill and is still elite and winning Super Bowls without him. I don't think Tua could do the same. Josh Allen has been a one man show in Buffalo making that offense dangerous pretty much on his own for the last few years. Herbert has no elite weapons on that offense and still plays great ( most of the time).

    There are many examples of Quarterbacks playing great without a track team and HOF supporting cast or tailor made systems on offense like Tua has.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A good GM will not take into account the weapons around the Qb when evaluating him, they will watch the player in complete isolation and the project what could be.

    So I’m not sure what your disagreeing with, identifying an elite talent has nothing to do with the weapons around them
     
  39. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I love how you just completely dismiss Travis Kelce, Stefon Diggs, Keenan Allen and Austin Ekeler.
     
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  40. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    GMs make lots of errors in identifying QB talent. The best way to tell whether the GM made a mistake or not is to look at the production of the QB over longer periods, i.e., stats. So in the end it's the stats that determine whether the QB was elite or not.
     

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