Time to enjoy what's happening!

"resnor wrote:

So I think that argument is stupid, yes.

1. I think that Tua, when given great weapons, goes crazy. He might not be able to do it without great weapons, but he does more with these sessions than an average QB would. So I don't think it's fair at this point to continue to argue that the weapons make him great. The seasons just allow him to across use his abilities.

2. You don't give Mario Andretti a Ford Escort to vote in the Indy 500.

I honestly didn't think I'd see this level of play from Tua. Yes, I'm still going to ***** when he throws inti triple coverage, and I'm sure I'll call it a rookie mistake.

It doesn't mean I want him gone.

(That's what people like ***** don't get (I used asterisks cause he doesn't deserve to see me type his name)

You know that I used to argue with you about Tua. It took reading some of your posts a little more objectively for me to differentiate them from some of the other posters who were on the other side of the debate. I don't think I've engaged you confrontationally for nearly two years. With that being said, I understand why some posters with an if-he-walked-on-water-it'd-be-proof-he's-too-lazy-to-learn-how-to-swim mentality catch the flak around here that they do. They literally poke and prod for arguments but it's too easy for me to ignore willful ignorance.

In the original Tua thread, I'd post tweets that were flattering for him but also made sure to post some that were critical if I thought the criticism was warranted. Objectivity is a virtue in debates. Others may not recall it, but when Tua went on a run in his second season where he had four games with 70% completion (out of five; two with 80%) and a seven-game win streak, you acknowledged it. At that point, I stopped looking for beef with you in particular and stopped arguing with others in general.

There's clearly a ton of bad blood between you and some of mis amigos and I'm glad to not know (or care) about it. But it would be cool if we could all just learn to disagree without being disagreeable. We're 5-1 and although we can have different opinions as to why, we should all be happy about it.

"resnor wrote:

I was honest in my evaluation of the QB. I never said he was trash. I said he was at worst an above average QB.

Why you and others run around on here acting like I was saying he was a bust like Jamarcus Russell, or something.

The fact that you thank posts by haters all the time makes you the same, and you’ve said a lot worse than he’s above average

Got news for you that’s wrong too.

So…. Where are you now in the evaluation of Tua relative to your early projections ?

"Finatik wrote:

If you don't vote you don't get a say. Otherwise it's just postering based on others actions. The people who don't vote usually complain the most but do nothing to help make change. I vote for the Dolphins to win the Superbowl.

I only vote when they actually put a good option on the menu. The two party lockdown on elections is how they keep the government corrupt. I refuse to choose between dumb and dumber. Luckily next year we have RFK Jr. on the ballot. I can finally vote for someone in good conscience.

"resnor wrote:

So I think that argument is stupid, yes.

1. I think that Tua, when given great weapons, goes crazy. He might not be able to do it without great weapons, but he does more with these sessions than an average QB would. So I don't think it's fair at this point to continue to argue that the weapons make him great. The seasons just allow him to across use his abilities.

This is true for ALL QBs. Why do you think the Bengals drafted Chase? Or the Eagles drafted Smith and traded for Brown? Why did the Chiefs just trade for another WR? All QBs need weapons and pass protection.

"cbrad wrote:

Nope you made it clear you think he's at best average or slightly average. For example:
https://thephins.com/threads/week-2-miami-1-0-at-baltimore-1-0.97738/page-5#post-3482151

https://thephins.com/threads/tua-is-not-the-problem.96818/page-25#post-3438795

LOL at the attempts to revise history.

"resnor wrote:

So I think that argument is stupid, yes.

1. I think that Tua, when given great weapons, goes crazy. He might not be able to do it without great weapons, but he does more with these sessions than an average QB would. So I don't think it's fair at this point to continue to argue that the weapons make him great. The seasons just allow him to across use his abilities.

I have asked this question many times and never get an answer but I will try again who are the QBs who are playing great week to week without at least 1 elite weapon?

"hitman8 wrote:

I only vote when they actually put a good option on the menu. The two party lockdown on elections is how they keep the government corrupt. I refuse to choose between dumb and dumber. Luckily next year we have RFK Jr. on the ballot. I can finally vote for someone in good conscience.

There's more than 2 options on the menu in all elections. If you don't vote, you don't get a say.

"cbrad wrote:

OK this is a start.

Brad, still love you brother...but come on. Resnor doesn't owe anyone here anything.

He was wrong- Tua developed into one heck of an NFL quarterback. Why keep piling on and trying to get him to "confess"? Of all people, you should let the stats and the game tape speak for itself. Nobody likes a sore loser...but people like sore winners even less.

Give the kid a break, he was wrong. We've all been wrong.

I've talked with Resnor off-site and he's a good guy. His job is noble and he makes a difference in people's lives. I really like him as a person, even though I disagree with him on a lot of things (Tua, COVID, etc). I disagree with you a lot as well, but I still like you a lot since we're like two grumpy old men arguing over senseless things. It's comical to me and it makes me smile.

As I said earlier, nobody in the history of the internet has ever won an argument. Resnor all but gave you the victory...you're so close to being the first person ever to claim that crown. But you have to let this go, LOL. That's the only way you win.

Again, love you brother! Stop being a sore winner!

"KeyFin wrote:

Brad, still love you brother...but come on. Resnor doesn't owe anyone here anything.

He was wrong- Tua developed into one heck of an NFL quarterback. Why keep piling on and trying to get him to "confess"? Of all people, you should let the stats and the game tape speak for itself. Nobody likes a sore loser...but people like sore winners even less.

Give the kid a break, he was wrong. We've all been wrong.

I've talked with Resnor off-site and he's a good guy. His job is noble and he makes a difference in people's lives. I really like him as a person, even though I disagree with him on a lot of things (Tua, COVID, etc). I disagree with you a lot as well, but I still like you a lot since we're like two grumpy old men arguing over senseless things. It's comical to me and it makes me smile.

As I said earlier, nobody in the history of the internet has ever won an argument. Resnor all but gave you the victory...you're so close to being the first person ever to claim that crown. But you have to let this go, LOL. That's the only way you win.

Again, love you brother! Stop being a sore winner!

Resnor is not a victim.

"KeyFin wrote:

Brad, still love you brother...but come on. Resnor doesn't owe anyone here anything.

He was wrong- Tua developed into one heck of an NFL quarterback. Why keep piling on and trying to get him to "confess"? Of all people, you should let the stats and the game tape speak for itself. Nobody likes a sore loser...but people like sore winners even less.

Give the kid a break, he was wrong. We've all been wrong.

I've talked with Resnor off-site and he's a good guy. His job is noble and he makes a difference in people's lives. I really like him as a person, even though I disagree with him on a lot of things (Tua, COVID, etc). I disagree with you a lot as well, but I still like you a lot since we're like two grumpy old men arguing over senseless things. It's comical to me and it makes me smile.

As I said earlier, nobody in the history of the internet has ever won an argument. Resnor all but gave you the victory...you're so close to being the first person ever to claim that crown. But you have to let this go, LOL. That's the only way you win.

Again, love you brother! Stop being a sore winner!

The issue with resnor is not that he was/is wrong. It's that he misrepresents his positions again and again. A few posts ago it happened again. He claimed that he said Tua was "at worst an above average QB". This is simply not true and cbrad showed it. He has done the same thing countless times with his on and off again claim that his "only concern is Tua staying healthy".

Frankly, there is nothing worse than debating with someone who does that. I share the desire to try to get him to stop it.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Resnor is not a victim.

I think you all need to just back away from the table on him.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Resnor is not a victim.

I didn't say he was. But at some point, you guys have to stop the witch hunt.

"FinFaninBuffalo wrote:

The issue with resnor is not that he was/is wrong. It's that he misrepresents his positions again and again. A few posts ago it happened again. He claimed that he said Tua was "at worst an above average QB". This is simply not true and cbrad showed it. He has done the same thing countless times with his on and off again claim that his "only concern is Tua staying healthy".

Frankly, there is nothing worse than debating with someone who does that. I share the desire to try to get him to stop it.

Are you saying that people's opinions can't change over time? Or that they couldn't have poorly stated their opinions in the past?

I mean, I completely get it...this has gone on for years. As I've said to Brad though, we've all be wrong about something in the past. Sometimes we're not proud of it either.

Resnor did say back in the day that injury was a huge concern- it was for me as well since he hadn't played an injury-free season since JV in high school. He also said (like I did) that Alabama's offense was so ridiculously good, it was hard to tell how much was Tua and how much was the team. Notice that neither one of us said, "Tua sucked"...we just didn't know how the heck to evaluate what we saw. Nobody here did if everyone is being honest.

I wanted Burrow 1st overall or Hurtz in a later round. Others really wanted Herbert. The truth is that we would have been in good shape with any of the four quarterbacks. Today, Tua is my clear favorite of the four and Burrow was a close 2nd up until this season (he's still not 100% and that's okay). I also know that Tua was a big influence on those Alabama teams...I can see it now because I understand Tua's superpowers.

I wasn't wrong to want Joe Burrow. Others weren't wrong to want Herbert. I wasn't wrong to want Jalen in the 2nd or 3rd round. All of them turned out to have pretty good careers and they'd be solid picks where I hoped we'd get them. I never wanted Herbert...not sure why...I just never loved him like I did the other three. But even if he was the pick, it wouldn't have been a catastrophic failure.

We're just better off with Tua because of our head coach. But then again, Tua likely would have washed out if Flores was still in charge. We wouldn't have this flashy timing offense or all these offensive weapons, and Tua would be asked to fit a less than ideal system where he couldn't thrive. Just think about that for a moment- if Flores stayed, Resnor was 100% right and you'd be 100% wrong.

My point is that everyone is splitting hairs over something that simply doesn't matter at all. Just let it go.

"KeyFin wrote:

I didn't say he was. But at some point, you guys have to stop the witch hunt.

Agreed.

"KeyFin wrote:

I didn't say he was. But at some point, you guys have to stop the witch hunt.

Dude it's not a witch hunt. We still hear the same arguments about Tua being merely average, even after recent games. Sorry, but if you think there shouldn't be any discussion about Tua being "at most average" at all, including pointing out what posters claimed in the past, then you're basically arguing for shutting down 90% of talk on this message board.

Also, you would NOT get anti-Tua posters to stop posting all that hate if you didn't take them to task for it. So I understand your sentiment, but my sentiments are different. I think it's important to push back against completely unreasonable takes regarding Tua, and I'll continue to do so even if you don't like it.

"cbrad wrote:

Dude it's not a witch hunt. We still hear the same arguments about Tua being merely average, even after recent games. Sorry, but if you think there shouldn't be any discussion about Tua being "at most average" at all, including pointing out what posters claimed in the past, then you're basically arguing for shutting down 90% of talk on this message board.

Also, you would NOT get anti-Tua posters to stop posting all that hate if you didn't take them to task for it. So I understand your sentiment, but my sentiments are different. I think it's important to push back against completely unreasonable takes regarding Tua, and I'll continue to do so even if you don't like it.

me too, don't like it, admit you were wrong and lets move on.

"djphinfan wrote:

me too, don't like it, admit you were wrong and lets move on.

Especially when it's in black and white right in front of you.

"KeyFin wrote:

Are you saying that people's opinions can't change over time? Or that they couldn't have poorly stated their opinions in the past

My point is that everyone is splitting hairs over something that simply doesn't matter at all. Just let it go.

Really? That's what you get from someone stating "I said he was at worst an above average QB." when in fact he multiple times said something to the effect that "Tua will never be more than a slightly above average QB".

Those are OPPOSITE statements. He contradicts himself with such ease that it is ridiculous.

What I'm saying is that people cannot post blatant lies about their posting history without getting called on it. Especially when they have engaged in arguments over hundreds and hundreds of posts about those things. Resnor has spent considerable energy dismissing Tua ON A DOLPHINS FAN SITE. He does not just get to pretend he didn't do it. He can either admit that he was wrong and changed his opinion and move on, or continue to get challenged on it. He cannot pretend he didn't state his position EMPHATICALLY.

"KeyFin wrote:

I didn't say he was. But at some point, you guys have to stop the witch hunt.

Witch hunts should only be stopped when they are not witches......

"Finatik wrote:

There's more than 2 options on the menu in all elections. If you don't vote, you don't get a say.

Options are Republican or Democrat, twittle dumb or twittle dumber, two sides of the same corrupt coprorate controlled war party. We are really not much different from China with one party rule. They also claim to have fair "elections". Neither party will ever let anyone who is not corrupt and pro war reach power.

I will vote independent for RFK Jr.

"FinFaninBuffalo wrote:

Witch hunts should only be stopped when they are not witches......

Okay, but at what point do the hunters become the witches? And who hunts them?

"KeyFin wrote:

Okay, but at what point do the hunters become the witches? And who hunts them?

The hunters become the witches when they stop hunting witches and hunt non-witches instead. There'll be plenty to hunt them.

You don't think posters that lie about what other posters write in an effort to get them labeled as witches will get exposed? Of course they will. That is why guys like me and cbrad back things up with actual quotes and links to what we are talking about.

[ATTACH:full]

"FinFaninBuffalo wrote:

What I'm saying is that people cannot post blatant lies about their posting history without getting called on it.

If I so desired, I can go back over the past four years and show you that EVERY MEMBER of this site was wrong on either:

- Flores
- Grier
- McDaniel
- Tua
- Tyreek
- Waddle
- Our OL
- Our RBs

A large portion of our fans said going into this season, the line was a disaster and our RB's wouldn't get the job done. I have yet to see anyone say, "I apologize for saying that!" Why isn't there a witch hunt?!? They must pay for their treacherous ways!

Many said that Tyreek was a colossal mistake. Make them pay!

Several were furious that we drafted Waddle over Smith or Chase. They were beside themselves that we traded down in the first place, only to trade back up. Punish those non-believers!

Others thought the team was doomed when we traded away Tunsil and Fitzpatrick. It crippled our team, they said. Those posters must be destroyed for their blasphemy!

I am being over dramatic because frankly, so is everyone else here. Resnor was wrong in this instance, and it's hysterical that everyone else believes that they've always been so right that they get to punish others. I'm sorry, you're just not. I'm not either. We're all human and we say some dumb things sometimes- especially when arguments span over years and heated exchanges take place.

"KeyFin wrote:

If I so desired, I can go back over the past four years and show you that EVERY MEMBER of this site was wrong on either:

- Flores
- Grier
- McDaniel
- Tua
- Tyreek
- Waddle
- Our OL
- Our RBs

A large portion of our fans said going into this season, the line was a disaster and our RB's wouldn't get the job done. I have yet to see anyone say, "I apologize for saying that!" Why isn't there a witch hunt?!? They must pay for their treacherous ways!

Many said that Tyreek was a colossal mistake. Make them pay!

Several were furious that we drafted Waddle over Smith or Chase. They were beside themselves that we traded down in the first place, only to trade back up. Punish those non-believers!

Others thought the team was doomed when we traded away Tunsil and Fitzpatrick. It crippled our team, they said. Those posters must be destroyed for their blasphemy!

I am being over dramatic because frankly, so is everyone else here. Resnor was wrong in this instance, and it's hysterical that everyone else believes that they've always been so right that they get to punish others. I'm sorry, you're just not. I'm not either. We're all human and we say some dumb things sometimes- especially when arguments span over years and heated exchanges take place.

Am I not being clear? It is not about being wrong. It is about lying about what you wrote. There are a number that have changed their position on Tua. Nobody has an issue with them. Hitman8 continues to doubt Tua, I don't have an issue with that.

The other thing I have an issue with is double standards. Don't make the case that Tua will never be more than an above average QB because he throws INTs and then ignore the fact that he has a low INT % and all QBs throw INTs.

In a nutshell I have an issue with arguments that are not in good faith.

I'll give you a counter example. cbrad and I disagreed strongly (and probably still do) on Tannehill. But he never argued in bad faith. He always backed up what he wrote. I learned a ton from him, while disagreeing with him.

There are not witch hunts. Nobody says you can't have a differing opinion.