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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by bbqpitlover, Oct 16, 2019.
You have him pegged and described his actions perfectly. Kudos to you.
Really it would make sense to simply wait about a year and see what he's doing at that point. At that point a lot more insight can be achieved.
You won't find a more controversial subject than Ryan Tannehill. Many of us believed that there Tannehill was an above average qb that was being let down by personnel around him and a pair of pitiful coaches. There were others that believed that he just wasn't good enough. The national media never paid enough attention to the Dolphins and had the perception that he wasn't any good and passed it on, hardly giving it more than a superficial look.
Most of us are very happy to see him with the success he is having in Tennessee, a change of scenery and a fresh start has done him wonders. And frankly, Ryan is more than used to playing behind a garbage offensive line. Miami's darn near got him killed the first three years. He was never allowed to play to his strengths here, as you have already seen he is amazingly accurate throwing the ball while rolling out o just plain on the run. Very strong arm and can make every throw. Super good guy and gives everything he has for the team. Not a selfish player. Loved his tackle on Sunday.
The thing is he is not showing me anything different on the Titans that he didn't show in Miami. He is still the same guy. Just turn him loose and let him play.
Anyway good luck to you guys and Ryan in particular. Most of us are behind him still and loving what's happening up there.
And he blocked me for it. lol
Thats ok, he's moving pretty quickly to my block list joining the one other person on it. That would be amazing, two in one week after never having anyone.
Not that I was saying...
I have a hard time believing that a team with a Derrick Henry at RB would have the same effectiveness as play action from a team that has Patrick Laird.
The only possible leverage JRob will have, is that there probably won't be TOO many teams looking for his talent level in an FA this year...that, and Tannehill seems to be a reasonable guy when it comes to this kinda stuff...he signed a very team-friendly deal a few years back...but if he keeps up his current level of play into the playoffs?!?!? Back the truck up.
I forgot! I'll see if your sister will forward me your number again.
...Cheesey jokes for 500 Alex
The problems with Miami’s OL when Tannehill was QB here is a different problem to what the problem is in Tennessee. If you watch a Jets game you’ll see the same problems there under their new whizz-bang boy genius coach, namely that the OL sometimes completely whiffs on a block and lets free rushers loose.
Your guys are getting shoved backwards, but generally are putting their bodies between the DL and the QB. The situation in Miami was some plays they’d look like the reincarnation of the 1972 dolphins OL and then the next play they were turnstiles.
Tannehill was under jailbreak type pass rush often.
And that qualifies as a "reason" a QB is having a rough time...but around here, it's an excuse.
Around here it will need to be z-scored and re-explained a 100 times. Then from there, we will be told how it doesn't matter because most teams allow a rusher through. We will then be told that even though a super fast WR can run 40 yards in 4.29 seconds in underwear and ideal conditions without being slowed by a DB, that Thill should still be able to launch the ball over 40 yards (which is the new definition of long pass upgraded from 20 yards, btw) in less than 2.5 seconds to a spot that the receiver can't possibly be at yet and even if he could run that fast, he doesn't run a precise enough route to hit the correct spot anyway.
And exactly why I still say all he really needed was a couple of competent guards. Probably would not be the same success as he has in Tennessee, Henry is a beast, but not being crushed as soon as the ball is snapped would have been a tremendous help.
Not just jail break but outside and inside immediate pressure before his back foot could even hit
Not just around here lol
I don’t think playoffs or no playoffs much matters. They will evaluate the qb for the qb. And imo come away with an easy decision to...pony up. Only thing I see potentially derailing this would be major injury in the next 3 weeks.
Who is jrob anyways?
Have you ever heard the saying - If he could just find the right situating? Well, I think that's what we're seeing here. I can't tell you how many times I watched Tannehill and wondered why he was just standing in the same spot play after play after play, just getting hammered. Granted, some of his best passes came moments before he was planted by one of the big fellas. But still, there got to be a better way.
I think the pay calling is the biggest difference in his game. He's still taking some hits but there are a lot more RPO on designed rollouts and a full dose of Henry with some zone read stuff sprinkled in. That's a lot for a defense to think about.
And you have to love this.
No one has the data to say if RT17 had more or less ‘jailbreak’ pass rush pressures than average. Without the data it is speculation. I believe he did, but I have no way to prove it right or wrong. In the absence of data it is safer to assume an even distribution than skewed or idiosyncratic distributions.
As fans we often see what we want to see. For example last year people here were complaining about how bad our injury situation was, but when you went to the data the phins were about league average in games lost to injury, starters lost to injury, productive players lost to injury - basically however you cut the data the phins were about average. Yet posters still complained about our injury situation being special and unusual.
Ryan was under pressure, more than most but not more than a handful of guy’s.
I believe he was late teens early 20’s in “seconds to pressure” most years. I unsubscribed from Pff so maybe someone else can confirm.
We did have a bad OL, but most teams do. It seems every fan base I incur complains about their OL’s. They are just getting abused by the new breed of athlete and the smart scheming developed. Those guy’s are having a hard time figuring it out.
This is no different, fans here believe we had the worst OL in football, fans in about 12 other cities think the same.
This isn’t to suggest Ryan didn’t deal with more pressure or obstacles most of the time, but it gets pretty hyperbolic at times.
Ryan is in a good place where they are creating an environment for him to thrive in, and thrive he surely is.
Big game for the Titans this week as they are a 3 point fav to uphold my prediction a month ago that they would win the division.
Side Note: Vrabel is from that Bellichek tree and looks like the best one yet. Let’s hope Brian Flores is in the same mold.
Ditto from another Dolphins and Tannehill fan.
Sorry, but this is wrong. There was a published article on the year he had the most sacks. Tannehill was sacked the most but had the fewest avoidable sacks. He was second fastest in the league for time to throw and was near the worst in the league for time to pressure.
They were also not blitzed very often.
This has been rehashed over and over.
Here's an article from the same season talking about the trash play of Bryant McKinnie. Don't look at it if you don't want to relive the horror that was the Dolphins OL.
How about this one:
Wouldn't say this validates much of anything beyond a few games in 2013.
When you have a bad OL, and a QB slow at processing it is what you tend to get. Even Ryan's biggest supporters have found it in there loins to admit his pocket prescience and processing speed were not very good. Luckily for him he has pretty much every other tool in his bag.....but it is and was a legitimate knock.
Don’t agree with the processing speed stuff. In terms of going thru progressions.
always thought that was overstated with Ryan.
and I don’t care what anyone says I’ve watched enough nfl tape to know that Ryan was under immediate pressure more than just about any qb in the league. In terms of pocket progression qb.
they’d rush 4 and drop 7 or rush 3 and drop 8 and play a sticks based coverage behind it and get there before his back foot could even hit or if it did hit force him to throw the underneath dump option to avoid the sack.
and many times it was inside and outside immediate pressure. Only thing you can do there is levitate.
step up in the pocket they say. What pocket?
Eventually muscle memory kicks in. Dallas thomas in his lead leg on just about every snap.
Not sure how you rank near the top of the league in shortest time to release the ball with "not very good" processing speed.
Mike Herndon @MikeMiracles
There are three teams in NFL history (post-merger) that have multiple games ranked in the top 30 for yards per offensive snap. The 2019 Titans are one of them. Can you guess the other two?
(One of these will BLOW. YOUR. MIND.)
Mike Herndon @MikeMiracles
OK, here is your answer:
The 2000 Greatest Show on Turf Rams, Ryan Tannehill’s 2018 Dolphins, and Ryan Tannehill’s 2019 Titans.
That’s right... Ryan Tannehill has quarterbacked 4 of the NFL’s 30 most efficient offensive performances since the merger in the last two years.
11:30 PM - Dec 10, 2019
It is simple. Tannehill has always been at his best when he can throw in rhythm to his initial read. It is when you took away that 1st read is when he became lost at times.
Coaches also were aware of this and schemed to get rid o the ball quickly.
Oddly enough about Ryan is that he was one of the better QBs in terms of passer rating when pressured, and one of the worst when given 4+ seconds to throw.
That's really cool.
And yet there are multiple potential reasons for that, that have nothing to do with Tannehill.
There were times earlier on in his career where if a guy was covered, he'd look confused as to where to go after his first read or two. And at its worst, you'd see this in consecutive games, up to 3 or 4.
And if you watch his tape from this year, it seems like he's not confused anymore, when the first guy or two are covered. Very decisive even deep into a play. Anybody else seeing this or am I just off?
IMO, he doesn't become lost any more than most other QBs. Certainly not since 2016. A LOT of the narrative about Tannehill was written in 2012 and 2013, when he was a very, very inexperienced QB with absolute trash around him. People have simply not reassessed. I did in 2014 and again in 2016. While the passer rating this year is higher than expected (and will come down), I am not the least bit surprised by his success and nobody else should be either.
You also have to consider that with the Dolphins he often faced pressure from 4 man pass rushes with 7 in coverage, even when keeping in extra blockers. So, 2 or 3 receivers against 7 defenders and people are wondering why he held the ball waiting for a player to get open?
this exactly. Too many people look at a play, and just assume the result is the fault of the QB. They somehow can’t understand the symbiotic relationships occurring on the field.
It is the reason Adam Gase said Ryan would benefit from being on the sidelines the year he got hurt and the year after.
Dude hasn’t been a QB for long, so all the nuances were new to him.
Plus he had no pressure as a backup in TN, he can play like his hair is on fire and not be afraid to make a mistake or “let it rip”.
Ryan is a better version of himself in a much better situation. Not shocked he is doing well and hopefully it continues.
It’s insane to me that here we are, 7 years later, still having to correct the same stupid narratives. They’ve been proven wrong so many times, yet people still trot these falsehoods out as fact. Myself and a few others have been pointing out the 4 man rushes getting quick pressures on Tannehill, with 7 guys in coverage.
We have to come together and realize that any criticism of Ryan doesn’t mean someone doesn’t like him.
It is the definition of fan boy vs fan.
About halfway down on the following page, there is information regarding that which spans the 2012 through 2016 seasons:
This 1000% unfortunately there just isn't good data for types of pressure. Tannehill is doing something in Tennessee that he just COULDN"T do here. He is trusting his O-line to put a body on the rushers. Consistency from an O-line (even if its consistently below average) is still better then poorly coached lines giving unpredictable pressure. I have seen only a handful of the completely missed rushers in all of Titan's games together. I swear we were seeing that same handful in nearly every game here. If you lose faith in your line then you start becoming a check down king, moving to the safe throw too quick to allow the better routes to develop.
I suspect that the play action forces the dline to commit towards the run which helps bad O-line men put a body on them. So that difference right there might be enough to explain some of the differences.